Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hello, I'm new to the forum and new to PA systems. I'd like to ask for help in selecting a PA system, if I could. My girlfriend (she plays bass) and I have been a living room band for the last four years. We are currently playing through a Tascam 414mkII mixer into our home stereo system. We've played a few times in front of people (man, that can be scary and fun), and we think we'd like to try it more often. We've played at our local bar, a few skydive dropzones, parties and such. We play SRV, Hendricks, Blues and whatever sounds good to us. So... Can you give us some good choices to consider? We would be playing in small clubs, bars and small outdoor settings. We have an electric guitar, an electric bass and a Dr 880 drum machine. Are we going to need a sub for the drum machine? Is the sub in the speaker or by itself (extreme newbie question) We also sing. We have two Shure 58's. I'm thinking that we wouldn't have to mike the amps, even for outdoor venues because we have 100w(guitar) and 50w(bass) amps. We might add a keyboard later so we'd need at least 4 inputs for a mixer, maybe 6 if we mike the amps. And I think we need at least 2 speakers and 1 monitor. Or maybe use an amp as a monitor? What else? Passive or active mixer? Powered speakers? I don't know. We'd like to consider some voice options... reverb, delay, etc. with the system. We've heard Mackie products are very good, but expensive. Any others? And if this wasn't enough of a challenge for you, we have limited money, weight and space issues. We are retiring and traveling in a fifth wheel, so space is small. And the lighter the equipment the better. Budget is $500-1000. But quality is the most important consideration. We appeciate your help as we will probably make our decisions based on your recommendations. Thanks for your time. Silly side question: where did the word "gig" come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 First, the important stuff. It seems nobody knows for sure where "gig" originated: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gig1.htm Now onto the easy stuff. What's the budget for this rig? Please don't say $500. I would suggest something I usually suggest...get three or four identical wedge speakers that can be pole-mounted as well. This is common, and you can get them either powered or passive. You can take just two and use one for FOH, one for monitor, or three to use a pair of FOH, or all four to set up a pair for each for bigger stages or bigger audiences (outdoors you need a lot of PA). A mixer with effects would do fine, get 8 channels or so, to give you plenty of flexibility for the future (you never know who'll join you or sit in). As for specifics, that depends heavily on budget. Figure a decent mixer at $500, and about $500-700 each for powered speakers. Powered speakers will give generally better sound for the price, as they are typically bi-amped and have amps that are well-matched in size to the speakers. While heavier and needing a power cable each, they take up less overall room than passive speakers plus an amp rack, and they can be mixed and matched without worrying about matching impedance, for example using three for FOH and one for monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gig1.htm I think the word GIG is of undetermined origin...the above link goes into some detail. Ok..you want a small, lightweight, hi-quality, inexpensive PA for smallish gigs. I think we'll need to get a sense of budget....beyond "limited". Your best bet to find a good used deal locally. If your not into used, then determine a budget and we'll help you put together a system. Warning: Small, lightweight and high quality generally does not equal cheap. However, all of these adjectives are relative. Your post stated that you hear Mackie products are pretty good but expensive. Most here would consider Mackie products to be middle of the road and priced in that category. For a nice little system, check out http://www.audioeast.com/systems.htm and look at package one or two. Talk to DAn about your need for a third monitor and he'll work that into the package. The cheapest, yet decent (not "high quality") system you could probably put together would be 3 peavey PR12's and a Yamaha (used peavey) box mixer. With cables, stands, et al....you'll be somewhere between $1200 and $1500. EDIT: I see Craig beat me to the post...funny he posted the same link for the GIG reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 sorry. I ammended my post to reflect budget. And yes, we would be looking for used, only used as we are NOT all that good and we need to spend as little as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 sorry. I ammended my post to reflect budget. And yes, we would be looking for used, only used as we are NOT all that good and we need to spend as little as possible. Check your local craigslist. These Peavey's are small, lightweight, sound decent and are CHEAP! http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPR12N You can take a trip to the local music store and give them a listen to determine for yourself. Get a used Peavey powered mixer from ebay or craigslist and you'll be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 ...For a nice little system, check out http://www.audioeast.com/systems.htm and look at package one or two. Talk to DAn about your need for a third monitor and he'll work that into the package.The cheapest, yet decent (not "high quality") system you could probably put together would be 3 peavey PR12's and a Yamaha (used peavey) box mixer. With cables, stands, et al....you'll be somewhere between $1200 and $1500. Thanks for the direction. Will the drum machine sound alright through this kind of system? What about miking the bass through it? If I were looking for all used stuff, what would you suggest I look for? Even high quality stuff that might sell cheaply? What's a craigslist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 ...What's the budget for this rig? Please don't say $500. Now, that's not nice. A mixer with effects would do fine, get 8 channels or so, to give you plenty of flexibility for the future (you never know who'll join you or sit in). I agree. What mixer would you suggest? If it has effects does that mean it's powered? I'm going to buy used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Now, that's not nice. I agree. What mixer would you suggest? If it has effects does that mean it's powered? I'm going to buy used. Effects are reverb, delay, etc. A powered mixer is one that has an amplifier built in. Considering your budget, I'd get a pair of powered speakers and a small mixer like the Peavey PV10. You'll have to buy used to keep it under $1000, or consider the PV-10 and a pair of Peavey PR-12P powered speakers. Your comment in the OP that quality is the most important consideration conflicts with such a low budget. If you can't find what I mentioned for the budget, just get one speaker and the mixer for now. The speakers are the most important link in the system...if they suck, nothing else can resurrect the rig. The PR's are decent for the money but don't expect miracles. If you find used gear locally, ask us about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Effects are reverb, delay, etc. A powered mixer is one that has an amplifier built in.Considering your budget, I'd get a pair of powered speakers and a small mixer like the Peavey PV10. You'll have to buy used to keep it under $1000, or consider the PV-10 and a pair of Peavey PR-12P powered speakers. Your comment in the OP that quality is the most important consideration conflicts with such a low budget. If you can't find what I mentioned for the budget, just get one speaker and the mixer for now. The speakers are the most important link in the system...if they suck, nothing else can resurrect the rig. The PR's are decent for the money but don't expect miracles. If you find used gear locally, ask us about it. Do you suggest a powered mixer? Can the PR-12p be used as a floor monitor as well? Would the pr-15's be a better buy than the 12's? Yes, I appreciate the contradiction of quality vs cost, but I'm thankful for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 If you have a powered mixer you don't need powered speakers. Personally I prefer powered speakers and a non-powered mixer with effects in the situation you're in. If you're running drum machines and bass through them, the PR-15 speakers would probably be better... but bigger and heavier. For vocals and guitar only, the PR-12 would be the better bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 If you have a powered mixer you don't need powered speakers. Personally I prefer powered speakers and a non-powered mixer with effects in the situation you're in.If you're running drum machines and bass through them, the PR-15 speakers would probably be better... but bigger and heavier. For vocals and guitar only, the PR-12 would be the better bet. Would the drum machine sound significantly better through the 15's over the 12's? I assume the Peavey PV-10 is NOT a powered mixer so that probably means that you couldn't use a non powered speaker as a monitor then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Would the drum machine sound significantly better through the 15's over the 12's? I assume the Peavey PV-10 is NOT a powered mixer so that probably means that you couldn't use a non powered speaker as a monitor then, right? Right....you could get two powered Peavey Pr15p mains and one Pr12p for a monitor (shouldn't have much/any drums in the monitor. The PR15phttp://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=24865&Category=Speakers 8thstreet has an open box deal on the PR12phttp://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=32025&Category=Speakers The powered speakers/unpowered mixer will likely be a better solution for you but probably a bit more expensive! The 15's will be better for your FOH (main speakers) with respect to low-end/drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 Would the drum machine sound significantly better through the 15's over the 12's? I assume the Peavey PV-10 is NOT a powered mixer so that probably means that you couldn't use a non powered speaker as a monitor then, right? You would either use a powered mixer with passive speakers, a non-powered mixer with a power amp and passive speakers, or a non-powered mxer with active (powered) speakers. It's possible to mix some of these, but you never use the speaker output of an amp into a powered speaker. In general, 15's would have a little more bass response than 12's, but for the future, plan to add a sub or two. If you do this, you can usually do without a bass and guitar amp and use modeling processors in their place. Not for everyone, but still a possibility worth considering. The PV-10 is a passive mixer. Google is your friend...just google the model numbers to see websites that have pictures and descriptions (some may have circles and arrows on the front, and a description on the back of each one telling what each one was, to be used against us in a court of law.....sorry, I digress......)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 In nearly every case a powered speaker is less expensive than an equivalent biamped passive speaker, and will always be less complicated and more compact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Right....you could get two powered Peavey Pr15p mains and one Pr12p for a monitor (shouldn't have much/any drums in the monitor. I'm confused by this (shouldn't have much/any drums in the monitor.) We need to hear the drums... isn't it better to hear it from the monitor? Any suggestions? And what's a craigslist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted March 16, 2007 Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 I'm confused by this (shouldn't have much/any drums in the monitor.)We need to hear the drums... isn't it better to hear it from the monitor? Any suggestions? And what's a craigslist? Sorry...forgot you were using a drum machine. Still...you mainly want vocals in your monitors with enough drums to keep you on track. Craigslist is a classified add place online that has alot of equipment/gear for sale locally.http://washingtondc.craigslist.org I'm in the DC area so the above is a link I would get. You can navigate to the biggest city near you and drill down to the musical equipment category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 In general, 15's would have a little more bass response than 12's, but for the future, plan to add a sub or two. If you do this, you can usually do without a bass and guitar amp and use modeling processors in their place. Not for everyone, but still a possibility worth considering. You bring up an interesting idea. It would be very nice to eliminate the amps. We could cut down on bulky equipment, except we'd be replacing the amps with a sub or two. What processors for guitar and bass would you suggest? I've tried the modeling of the Dr 880 drum machine and found it to be tinny and shallow, not full. As it relates to subs... would you suggest using the 12's with a single sub as opposed to using the 15's for FOH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 Craigslist is a classified add place online that has alot of equipment/gear for sale locally.http://washingtondc.craigslist.org Thx, I've been looking for something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 16, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2007 ...The PV-10 is a passive mixer. Google is your friend...just google the model numbers to see websites that have pictures and descriptions (some may have circles and arrows on the front, and a description on the back of each one telling what each one was, to be used against us in a court of law.....sorry, I digress...... )..... I appreciate all of the help here. Does the USB version of the PV-10 mixer offer more features other than the ability to access a computer? Are the effects of the NON USB mixer any good? I'd like to use it to add a little to the vocals. Also, would my Tascam 414mkII work as the mixer if I wasn't needing the effects and would it have the "power" to do the job through powered speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 You bring up an interesting idea. It would be very nice to eliminate the amps. We could cut down on bulky equipment, except we'd be replacing the amps with a sub or two. What processors for guitar and bass would you suggest? I've tried the modeling of the Dr 880 drum machine and found it to be tinny and shallow, not full. As it relates to subs... would you suggest using the 12's with a single sub as opposed to using the 15's for FOH? I play bass. Personally I've tried the Tech 21 Sansamp BDDI, and while it's acceptable, for $180 it wasn't all that and a bag of chips. I presently use a Boss GT-6B as a backup to my bass rig and as a tuner, volume pedal and multieffects. It's pretty good and the amps models are nice. For guitar? Oh boy, don't know if I'll touch that with a 10-foot pole, lol. As with anything, you have to like what you use, and guitarists are as bad as if not worse fusspots about tone as anyone on the planet! Try the POD's, the Boss GT-8, or the TC Electronics units for starters. In most cases a pair of decent 12's and 18" subs will give a pretty good overall tone and be capable of supporting all instruments in the band. That's what I'd build towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 16, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 16, 2007 I appreciate all of the help here. Does the USB version of the PV-10 mixer offer more features other than the ability to access a computer? Are the effects of the NON USB mixer any good? I'd like to use it to add a little to the vocals. Also, would my Tascam 414mkII work as the mixer if I wasn't needing the effects and would it have the "power" to do the job through powered speakers? I'm not aware of anything else the USB version offers beyond the ability to record to PC. But that's a nice feature if you need it. The effects are identical in both versions. While you can't expect sophisticated lush reverbs, they are certainly fine for live use in the context of our discussion. The Tascam 414 would be okay to use for now. Not a lot of EQ control, which is probably just as well, to keep you out of trouble, and it's got a line-out to feed your amp or FOH speakers, and a monitor out for the mons, and it's even got two effects send/returns if you get an effects unit. I think it would work okay, but I've never used one this way. Give it a shot and let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members haleyes Posted March 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 23, 2007 Ok, what EQ settings would I use for vocals? For a drum machine? What do I need to be careful of, if anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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