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The Portable PA & the Solo Performer


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I've played through one of the Fender Passport systems in a local music store once. I was not very impressed. It sounded alright, but the more you crank these things the worse they sound. Needless to say I didn't think it would serve my needs so I didn't buy it.

 

I also looked at the Yamaha Stagepas system. I think it was the larger one (500). This time I didn't actually play through it, but listened to CD playback. I wasn't all that impressed with this one either. It had little to nothing to offer on the low end frequencies.

 

I think I will agree with most people on this forum when it comes to these "portable, affordable systems". They are "OK" for low volume, very small events. But you will not get great sound quality out of them.

 

The only portable system that I think was pretty decent was the Bose L1 system. Those seem to work well for solo/acoustic stuff. But they are pretty pricey.

 

If, as you say, you are using this for solo/acoustic stuff. Depending on where you are using it, I would reccommend 1 good powered speaker on a stand ($500-700), small mixer ($250-500), a decent mic ($100), and all your cables.

If you prefer, you can go the other way and buy a decent powered mixer($300-700), an unpowered speaker or two ($150-500 each).

 

Keep in mind, that for a $1000 budget you will not have a "great" system. But you can definitely have something better than the prebuilt portable systems and still be pretty compact and within your budget.

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Peavey Xr8600 is alot of bang for the buck. Great little powered mixer. You could even go a with a lesser powered version of the XR series. That coupled with a few speakers and you have yourself an ok system. Not to mention the XR series may have some extra features you may enjoy. The unit is solid and will last you a long time. You can upgrade your speakers as funds allow and still use your others for monitors. I reccomend the PR series speakers from Peavey either Pr15's or 12's. For under a $1000 I think you would be very happy with this set up and find it very upgrade friendly.

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What kind of music are you playing, and in what type of venue? I think that will determine what kind of gear will do the job.

 

For example, I've played in tiny bars using only my $300 Genz Benz Shenandoah JR for acoustic guitar and vocals. It sounds great, and it's just a little 35 watt amp with a 10" speaker and bullet tweeter. Another great option would be the new Shenandoah 150LT with an extension cab. That would be a killer acoustic guitar + vocals rig. Very, very portable too.

 

My basement rock band has one of the original Fender Passport PA systems for our practice space. We call it "The R2 unit." It does a decent enough job for vocals at rehearsal, but it's just a glorified boom box. The newer ones are probably better. I could see the Passport being a viable solution in some situations, but I wouldn't recommend one for solo performing.

 

Peavey powered mixers are a great option. I just bought a used rental stock Peavey XR600G for $260. I've seen it's predecessor, the XR600F, sell for $200. I wouldn't go any older than that, since the prices of the older XR mixers don't seem to fall off much more. Either way, the XR600 powered mixers are legendary for reliability. I see tons of XR600B's still in service, and those were made 25 years ago. Add a pair of monitor wedges/PA speakers and you could have a decent coffee house rig.

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Venue would be [like] the coffee club and Type of Music would be Acoustic Guitar/Keyboards/Vocals/Harmonizer/drum machine = Classic, Folk, Reggae, Jazz = a soft mixture.

 

I have heard from some folks that recommend the Fender Passport PD-500 System because of the sound and portability. The Yamaha Stagepas 500 portable is also recommended [The fact that the PA can sit on a MIC stand :love:}. So there seems to be mixed reviews. What I do gather is that no system will do everything, and every one of these systems has a particular feature that either draws you to it:thu: or creates a negativity. :confused:

 

Thats cool about the Peavey X8600, did not notice that system before until you mentioned it. Noticed no one has ventured to mention KUSTOM :poke:

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the coffee club and Type of Music would be Acoustic Guitar/Keyboards/Vocals/Harmonizer/drum machine = Classic, Folk, Reggae, Jazz = a soft mixture.


I have heard from some folks that recommend the Fender Passport PD-500 System because of the sound and portability. The Yamaha Stagepas 500 portable is also recommended [The fact that the PA can sit on a MIC stand
:love:
}. So there seems to be mixed reviews. What I do gather is that no system will do everything, and every one of these systems has a particular feature that either draws you to it:thu: or creates a negativity.
:confused:

Thats cool about the Peavey X8600, did not notice that system before until you mentioned it. Noticed no one has ventured to mention KUSTOM :poke:

 

 

In my opinnion...Kustom is crap. But that is strictly MY opinnion.

 

One thing to add, if you are going to be running keyboard/bass/drums/drum machine through the PA, then I would go with at least 15" 2-way speakers, possibly even a sub. 12" speakers will work, but won't produce a great bass response for those instruments.

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I like the Yamaha Stagepas way better than the Fender passports I have heard. Though it won't rattle the walls, I found the Stagepas had a nice top end sparkle and a pretty full sound considering it's size. It had a very ear pleasing tone. The passports on the other hand were mostly midrange and got annoying very quickly... Al

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I am a singer/songwriter artists who performs solo. PA is a big challenge. When I was looking, my budget was to stay under $800. I listened to the Fender stuff - vocals and guitar sounded OK, piano and backing tracks sounded like crap. I also checked out the Yamaha systems - vocals and piano sounded good, but no low end so again, the backing tracks sounded like crap.

 

I ended up buying a Mackie power amp (I already had a decent Yamaha mixing board), two Peavey PR12 speakers, and two speaker stands.

 

And it sounded somewhere between OK and good, but STILL no real low end. So I finally gave up and bought a pair of PR 15's. So NOW when I gig small places, I bring half my speakers. I put one PR 15 on the floor and I put one PR 12 on top of the PR 15. In some cases I'll put it on a pole. It's definitely bending the rules, but it sounds good. The 15 sitting on the floor make my drum loops and bass sound WAY better. The PR 12 is higher and covers the high end decently. And for outdoor gigs, I use all 4 speakers, with the 15's on the floor or stage and the 12's on poles. And it sounds pretty good.

 

The nice things about the PR speakers are the cost and the weight. You can buy lightweight speakers that sound much better, but at 3 times the cost. I had a budget. Or you can buy the much famed Yamaha Club speakers for a bit more money than the PR's, but they weigh quite a bit more.

 

When you're a solo artist playing with backing tracks, those backing tracks had better sound great - it's the difference between sounding like a band and sounding like karaoke. One PR 15 sitting on the floor driven by a decent amp will give you all the bass you need for a small gig. Then it's nice to have another speaker higher up to give you better coverage - otherwise you're aiming your high end at everyone's knees.

 

Some might wonder why I didn't just buy the PR 15 subwoofers, since that's practically how I'm using them. The reason is that I wanted to have a very flexible system. I could take just one 15 to a gig, or I can take my usual 15 and 12 combo, OR I could take two of the 15's, or for just general vocal PA announcement stuff two of the 12's, OR all 4 speakers.

 

The only problem I have now is that I need a more powerful amp to drive all four. The one I have now is OK but I really need about 600 wpc into 4 ohms to drive all 4 speakers. But that's for the future. And when that day comes, I'll buy the Yamaha mixer/amp combo.

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As much as I like the Peavey PR series for what they are....they can't escape what they are...entry level lowest-cost speakers. And that's the exact same problem the pre-packaged portable systems display...lousy speakers.

 

For under $1000 you're gonna be pretty much stuck with one entry-level type system or another, or shop used and score some decent powered speakers and a small mixer with built-in effects.

 

When you move up in budget, there are some pretty dramatic improvements in sound and portability available to you. IMHO there is no sub-$1000 portable system that is gig-worthy.

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This is my combination and I am really happy with it: really portable and powerful: I've even played in halls for 300 people without problems:

 

2x 10' RCF Art 310A (just 10 Kg. each)

1 mixer Yamaha (MG82CX)

 

The whole set cost me about 1000 Euros in Spain (taking into account that music equipment is much cheaper in the USA than in Spain, I think that although the Euro is more expensive than the dollar, you can get this for about 1000$ or a just a bit more in the States).

If RCF is a little too expensive in the USA (it's Italian), I am sure you can get some really nice self-powered speakers of good American brands; Peavey, Yorkville, etc. though my 2 little RCF "spagettis" :-) really ROCK!!!!

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I'll add a vote of confidence for the Yamaha StagePAS series.

 

My singer has the StagePAS 300 system and purely for putting vocals and acoustic guitar through, it easily keeps up at bar gigs where we play backline only and produces a good clean musical sound. This is with a rock covers band and would be 100 - 150 capacity venues.

 

In response to the comments about a lack of bottom end, we had to provide intermission music through it at short notice at a private birthday party we played at and with the eq set flat/5 out of 10/12 o'clock position it did lack some bottom end. Turn the bass control on the channel up to 6-7 / 1-2 o'clock and a surprising amount of musical low end came out. This was playing some dance music from CD.

 

As a single lift from the car system for venues in the capacity range above and the use we put it to, I think it's outstanding. Biggest drawback to me is that of the six channels it provides, only 4 have XLR inputs and ideally I'd like every channel to have that option.

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It's slightly out of your price range, but Sound Projections make the best all-in-one portable PA out there.
http://www.soundprojections.com/


Do a google product search and you'll find prices.

 

 

220% of the OP's budget is "slightly out of your price range" ??? And that's the cheapest system...the big system is over $4000. These are not intended for live music...even their descriptions cite basic speech PA use.

 

But the packages are discounted a whole 3%.....

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I'll add a vote of confidence for the Yamaha StagePAS series.

Biggest drawback to me is that of the six channels it provides, only 4 have XLR inputs and ideally I'd like every channel to have that option.

 

 

:thu:Thanks for the uplifting comment on the Stage pas. Now I see that the STAGEPAS 500 with 500 W (250W X2) Speakers with 10" woofers, and a 10-Channel MIXER. Thats 4 more channels than the 300. What do you think? Good Enough?

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I have excellent luck with a pair of Behringer powered speakers (B212A - $220 apiece) and my little Behringer mixer ($80). It sounds great (more low end than you'd expect), is pretty light, and gives me what I need.

 

If you want more bass response, you can add another $80 per speaker and get the B215A powered speakers - they're quite a bit bigger than the B212As, but have a bit more thump.

 

Some have had reliability issues, but I've been using Behringer stuff for almost 10 years and never had a single piece of their gear break down on me (except from something stupid I did).

 

I use my B212A as a stage monitor for my bass (I run direct), vocals, etc. now, and it sounds great. So if you ever have the need to make a bigger system in the future, you have an instant stage monitor system with the B212A...

 

Brian V.

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IMHO there is no sub-$1000 portable system that is gig-worthy.

 

 

Dude, this just kills me. The guy is gigging in coffee houses. The majority of coffee house performers do NOT waltz in with a two thousand dollar PA system. I just don't think that's good advice, and I also think that a sub-$1000 system can sound just fine in a coffee house, and certainly sounds fine to the vast majority of people who are going to be likely to attend a coffee house performance, if not maybe the live sound purists.

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The bottom line to me is low end. You're not going to get real low end out of Yamaha speakers with 10 inch woofers, even if you put them on the floor. They can produce some low end, but if you're singing along with any kind of drum/bass thing going on, it's going to sound like you're singing through your stereo. Lots of people do this and get away with it, but it sounds cheesy. One PR15 sitting on the floor can give you enough low end bass that people can feel it. NOT that you have it cranked up that high, mind you, in a coffee shop - but there's a big difference even at soft volumes. It's the difference between a big sound and a little sound.

 

I've never tried the Behringer speakers, but a pair of powered speakers with 12's might even work, IF you put one of them on the floor. Behringer is the dirtiest word around harmony central, though, so don't be surprised if you ragged on.

 

Really the best thing to do is audition systems yourself. But when you audition, be thinking about what sounds like a PA system and what sounds like a home stereo.

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The bottom line to me is low end. You're not going to get real low end out of Yamaha speakers with 10 inch woofers, even if you put them on the floor. They can produce some low end, but if you're singing along with any kind of drum/bass thing going on, it's going to sound like you're singing through your stereo. Lots of people do this and get away with it, but it sounds cheesy. One PR15 sitting on the floor can give you enough low end bass that people can feel it. NOT that you have it cranked up that high, mind you, in a coffee shop - but there's a big difference even at soft volumes. It's the difference between a big sound and a little sound.


I've never tried the Behringer speakers, but a pair of powered speakers with 12's might even work, IF you put one of them on the floor. Behringer is the dirtiest word around harmony central, though, so don't be surprised if you ragged on.


Really the best thing to do is audition systems yourself. But when you audition, be thinking about what sounds like a PA system and what sounds like a home stereo.

 

 

 

Don't know about the B215As, but I do know the B212As do not put out any real bottom end. I demo'd them at my local music store, and although the mid and top end really sounded pretty good with a little EQ, the low frequencies simply do not go very low. There is not much information below 100hz coming out of those boxes. They are very compact and small platic boxes... A pair of those with a compact powered sub would be an OK sounding solution on a budget. I would choose a Stagepas500 OR a pair of YX15Ps - which are my favorite budget powered cabs. They sound very good, have a built-in 3 band EQ and come with a 2 year no fault warranty. Al

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:thu:Thanks for the uplifting comment on the Stage pas. Now I see that the STAGEPAS 500 with 500 W (250W X2) Speakers with 10" woofers, and a 10-Channel MIXER. Thats 4 more channels than the 300. What do you think? Good Enough?

 

 

Probably IS good enough for acoustic music in a coffee shop.

Personally, I would rather see you with something like a Yorkville NX 55P, and some small passive mixer (there are other smaller ones for even less $)... because the NX 55 P is something that can grow along with you, whereas the stagepass is probably coming in right at it's limit... but for acoustic music in a coffee shop it would probably work alright.

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I think you would be best served to get one decent powered speaker and a small passive mixer. 95% of "small" coffee shop style gigs can be covered by one speaker set up behind you acting as your monitor.

 

Sure two would be better sometimes, sure a sub might be nice down the road, but they aren't "needed". I would spend my $1000 on something like this.

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/YORKVILLE_NX350_SPEAKER_CABINET_350WRMS_NX350KIT.html

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/Yamaha-MG124CX-12-Input-4-Bus-Stereo-Mixer-w-effects-Yamaha-MG124CX-Yamaha-MC-124CX-MC124CX-MG-124CX-MG124CXKIT.html

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A simple solution is a small powered Yamaha speaker + yamaha, mackie or Behringer mixer. Just try out and play with the knobs to get a decent sound.

 

When I started I had a old Roland power-mixer and 2 monitors where one had a blown horn and the other had a blown bass. Some channels worked but none had all eq's, gain and faders working. It was a very good training to get decent sound out of this crap. I also had a {censored}ty mic, Epiphone with a {censored}ed up piezo and a perhaps-working zoom fx...

 

The I got myself a Spirit Powerstation with cheap yorkie speakers, and thought I was in heaven.

 

I then decided to replace the weakest link in my chain. I replaced only if the new item was smaller, better sounding, lighter and had a resale value. This turned out to be a fine way to grow. I also made sure to read the f***cking manual so many times that I learned to really use the gear.

 

Don't underestimate experience with {censored}ty gear, it makes you appriciate the good stuff!

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Dude, this just kills me. The guy is gigging in coffee houses. The majority of coffee house performers do NOT waltz in with a two thousand dollar PA system. I just don't think that's good advice, and I also think that a sub-$1000 system can sound just fine in a coffee house, and certainly sounds fine to the vast majority of people who are going to be likely to attend a coffee house performance, if not maybe the live sound purists.

 

 

So what do you recommend that's got monitoring (yeah, you still need to hear yourself in a coffee house) and sounds proffessional, and is under $1000. Even the Stagepas 500 is a grand, and has no monitoring, and no speaker stands. So you need to add at least one small powered speaker or Hot Spot, and even a pair of cheapo stands will set you back another hundred. And this of course assumes you've already got DI's and mics, and mic stands.

 

May as well make the jump to a Bose PAS and be done with it.

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So what do you recommend that's got monitoring (yeah, you still need to hear yourself in a coffee house) and sounds proffessional, and is under $1000. Even the Stagepas 500 is a grand, and has no monitoring, and no speaker stands. So you need to add at least one small powered speaker or Hot Spot, and even a pair of cheapo stands will set you back another hundred. And this of course assumes you've already got DI's and mics, and mic stands.


May as well make the jump to a Bose PAS and be done with it.

 

 

Well, first things first. I probably should have worded my retort a little better, so I apologize for that. You're obviously someone who cares a great deal about sound and about quality. I've enjoyed reading some of your other posts. My point is that I think it's important to encourage people to get out there and play. With that in mind...

 

The coffee house scene is a scene I feel like I know pretty well, and I can tell you that there's a big difference between what is ideal and what is actually out there. In our scene (Tampa area,) the vast majority of coffee house performers do not have dedicated monitors. At all. They essentially put their speaker or speakers behind them, and can hear themselves just fine. This is also what I do. Feedback is not a problem at the volumes we usually play at - people are there to talk to their friends, eat, hang out, and surf the net, not yell over the music. It's a totally different scene than traditional live sound reinforcement.

 

The Stagepas system (with the 10 inch woofers) sounds pretty good for vocals but has no real low end, and any drums you pump through it will make it sound like a home stereo. If you wanted to go with that system AND have your backing tracks sound more like a real band, you'd need to put the speakers on poles (you're right) and add a sub. That would actually sound pretty good for a coffee house. The problem is weight and expense. It would be nice if there were a powered 15 inch sub that did not weigh a lot or cost a lot, but that does not exist.

 

If you are a singer/acoustic guitar player with no backing tracks, you don't need to worry about low end so much, and any of the sub-$1,000 systems will get the job done, though some sound good and some don't. But the minute you add in any backing tracks with a bass drum and/or bass guitar, things change. At that point it is important to pull off the fake, if you will. That bass drum has got to have some substance to it. It doesn't have to be rattling testicles, like you'd have in a bar, but those low frequencies need to actually exist. Even at low volumes, you can hear a dramatic difference between a 15 inch woofer and a 10 inch woofer - it's a question of moving air, as we all know. Even at low volumes, you want to simulate the sound of a whole band (if you're using backing tracks) and it's just not possible to do that without providing actual, real, honest to God bass. You might be able to get away with using a 12 inch woofer if it's on the floor, but it doesn't cut it like a 15, not in this price range.

 

Many solo performers who use backing tracks ignore the low end, and like I said, it sounds like they're singing through a stereo system. One might argue that the general public out at the coffee shop is treating your music as background anyway, but I think you need to sound as good as you can regardless. It does make a difference. People have said to me "man, you sound really full for just one guy." They're talking about the 15 inch woofer sitting on the floor, even though they don't know it.

 

In June I'm playing a live outdoor show with another local coffee house guy. In that case, we're going to use my PA as the main system, and his PA as monitor speakers for us. Outside, you need to crank up, and there's no way to do that without monitoring. If I find myself getting more outdoor gigs, I'll probably spring for a powered monitor. I once played on a stage in a club where there was no monitoring at all on the stage - couldn't hear a damn note I played. My monitoring was my own sound bouncing off the back wall of the club, and that back wall was very far away. It was awful. One of those deals where each person gets up and plays one song. I was happy it was only one song.

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And all that is why IMO the sub-$1000 system doesn't cut it....you just listed the reasons. If you're just a solo acoustic guy, who will not be using backing tracks, won't ever have any bass instruments, is okay sticking a speaker behind him and won't need the volume, won't be playing outdoors, then yeah, you can get by. And even then, you're still right at or above $1000....not below it.

 

But that's not what I consider gig-worthy, which was what I commented. Gig-worthy means if you get called to play a picnic in the park, you aren't scrambling to cobble together more volume. If you get asked to work with a bassist, or you have backing tracks, or you want fuller, truly professional sound, you have it. To be confident that you'll be able to handle any gig makes it a lot easier to accept any gig that comes your way, and having better sound than the other guys puts you at an advantage so you can move up in pay and get the callbacks.

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And all that is why IMO the sub-$1000 system doesn't cut it....you just listed the reasons. If you're just a solo acoustic guy, who will not be using backing tracks, won't ever have any bass instruments, is okay sticking a speaker behind him and won't need the volume, won't be playing outdoors, then yeah, you can get by. And even then, you're still right at or above $1000....not below it.


But that's not what I consider gig-worthy, which was what I commented. Gig-worthy means if you get called to play a picnic in the park, you aren't scrambling to cobble together more volume. If you get asked to work with a bassist, or you have backing tracks, or you want fuller, truly professional sound, you have it. To be confident that you'll be able to handle any gig makes it a lot easier to accept any gig that comes your way, and having better sound than the other guys puts you at an advantage so you can move up in pay and get the callbacks.

 

 

Ah. I agree 100%. I was thinking gig in terms of coffee house gig. If you're talking gig as in ANY gig, then you're absolutely right - you can't do it with a sub-$1,000 system, not AND sound good. If you are making a living as a musician and part of that is gigging, then you don't mess around with entry level Peavey stuff. I agree. But I don't think that was the OP's intention. In the case of us non-pros, who have day jobs and do music for fun, we don't really need to worry about callbacks and other such things. But yeah, if I did this for a living, I wouldn't be caught dead with the speakers I have now, unless it was in a practice hall.

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