Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Just did a show this past weekend and I have some concerns. We hooked up our PA the same way we did the 3 times previous in this room. But this time the low end was not strong and the sub amps were clipping. We never got clipping before. So nothing has changed on our part. But the club added a bunch of specialty lights and we were tripping breakers. Could too much load in the building starve my amps causing then to clip? The power in this place is very suspect to begin with. They need to install a box on stage so we can tie into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whiteop Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 It very well could be that you're getting lower amperage as a results of the load caused by lighting, especially if you're on the same circuit (which you shouldn't be but the electrician may have taken the easy way out when he wired the lights in). I've seen this happen before. It's unusual but it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Just did a show this past weekend and I have some concerns. We hooked up our PA the same way we did the 3 times previous in this room. But this time the low end was not strong and the sub amps were clipping. We never got clipping before. So nothing has changed on our part. Are you sure you didn't reverse phase one of the subs? Betcha a beer that was what happened - assuming you checked that both subs were working . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 It could have been power sag, but you'd usually see that when using long extension cords or other similar setup where the wiring isn't up to snuff. If the lights were wired in though and the circuit breaker bypassed or otherwise altered, it could be the problem. 40 amps on a circuit designed to do 20 isn't going to work so well. You mentioned the subs were hooked up the same, but were they also in the same location as in the past? Like realty, a lot of sub performance is location, location, location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 RR I even thought of that in my novice stage lol. We are planning on checking all of the phasing. One sub was not working so I replaced it with another sub. We use 4 and I have 8. But that would only explain one side. Each side of subs has it's own amps and both sub amps were clipping. My amp rack never changes. Each amp is hard wired to a control plate with Neutrik connectors and never gets touched to avoid phasing issues. Also my amp to my top boxes which never clip had some very light clipping which I thought was very telling on the building power. Just so everyone knows I am running one Yorkville EX2000 2x15 top a side powered by 1 AP4040 and 2 EV T18 a side each powered by channel A of the AP4040. I have been meaning to put all the subs on one amp A & B but I didn't have much time and didn't want to mess with stuff because the PA had been sounding so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Abzurd, Yes the cabs were in the same place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 If it is the power in the room causing my amps to clip will that damage my speakers the same as if I were overpowering them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 of course you checked the voltage before plugging anything in and during the time of trouble? what was the voltage and did it sag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 If it is the power in the room causing my amps to clip will that damage my speakers the same as if I were overpowering them? If your amps have limiters, than no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 of course you checked the voltage before plugging anything in and during the time of trouble? what was the voltage and did it sag? To be honest I don't know. I was a little scatter brained as I had to play too. But in looking back I believe Stage gear, pa and light all shared the same circuits. We kept tripping the fuse box so we ran ext. cord on an amp or 2 to stop that. That stopped the tripping but not the clipping. Actually the PA sounded good. Nor I or the soundman heard anything odd. Everything sounded clean except for the low end being weaker. Yes Agedhorse those Ap4040's have limiters per the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 All other things being the same, it was probably the extension cord then. What gauge and how long was it?What exactly was hooked up to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 No the clipping was happening before the ext cord but we were tripping the fuse box. Moving one amp to a different outlet stopped the tripping but the clipping continued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Sure sounds like too much load for the electrcal supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Wait we did have everything plugged into a Furman power conditioner for the first time but took it out as we were tripping the PC. We put everything on a power strip where usually we have it on a 4 plugger with heavy gauge cord. Damn could that have been it coupled with all of those lights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 1, 2009 Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Power conditioner with amps of that size is a poor idea. Besides, it doesn't do any meaningful "conditioning" other than making you feel good. You have reached the point that youneed somebody knowledgable to look at your set-up and figure out a more systematic approach to your power. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2009 Actually my amp rack that came with the pa has 20 amp plugs in it to hardwire right into the bar panel already marked for power amps and stage gear but it is useless because when the bar decided to have bands and build a stage they gave no thought to power or space and built a small corner stage. I hate those things. Lesson learned on the power conditioner though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted December 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2009 Power conditioner with amps of that size is a poor idea. Besides, it doesn't do any meaningful "conditioning" other than making you feel good.You have reached the point that youneed somebody knowledgable to look at your set-up and figure out a more systematic approach to your power. IMO. Thanks for the tip on the PC. Won't use that again. During setup when I thought the PC was the way to go I allowed my heavy duty 4 way to get used elsewhere. After the PC shut down twice and had to be reset we took it out and used a power strip. I think using that made an iffy power situation worse. The PA sounded clean. Got plenty of complements but also most said the kick wasn't strong enough which we already knew. I spoke with our singer last night and he told me the bar said all the bands are having issues. They want to fix it and asked what we need. What should they do? I was going to tell them to install another breaker box that will allow bands to use their distro to tie in. Also tell them to have the stage pointing down the bar and not in a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 2, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thanks for the tip on the PC. Won't use that again. During setup when I thought the PC was the way to go I allowed my heavy duty 4 way to get used elsewhere. After the PC shut down twice and had to be reset we took it out and used a power strip. I think using that made an iffy power situation worse. The PA sounded clean. Got plenty of complements but also most said the kick wasn't strong enough which we already knew. I spoke with our singer last night and he told me the bar said all the bands are having issues. They want to fix it and asked what we need. What should they do? I was going to tell them to install another breaker box that will allow bands to use their distro to tie in. Also tell them to have the stage pointing down the bar and not in a corner. Keep it simple. A breaker box (subpanel) alone only means every band will be (llegally and dangerously) opening the box to tie in. Ask them to provide 3 or 4 20amp circuits with outlets spaced near the stage, and if this hasn't made them faint dead away, ask for a 50amp 120/240 circuit. Most bands (98% by my scientific study;)) will simply plug extension cords into the 20a outlets and be done with it. "Big" bands might have a distro and use the 50. In the grand scheme, this isn't very costly to install, if the venue's panel has the available slots, as they don't need a subpanel, but a locking panel near the stage would be convenient if more expensive. Most of the labor will be in snaking wire to the stage area. The materials will be minor cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted January 21, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Well to give an update. We took some time off. Got to use the PA for the first time since the weak low end happened. Pulled the power conditioner off the amps and made sure only the heavy duty 4-way was used and no clipping and the pa slayed the place. Really happy with the results. We were playing an old club which had a painted ceiling that was peeling. Pieces of the paint fell to the ground the last set lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 We were playing an old club which had a painted ceiling that was peeling. Pieces of the paint fell to the ground the last set lol. Now the loose stuff is down, you can turn up the volume so you can here it. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 21, 2010 Members Share Posted January 21, 2010 Mmmmm, lead paint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted January 22, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Now the loose stuff is down, you can turn up the volume so you can here it. :poke: LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 ok, no one else said it yet so i guess it has to be me.....sigh....here goes..... "so you guys stunk so bad you peeled the paint off the walls, eh?" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted January 22, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 We take sucking to new levels Mr. Smarty Pants lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted January 22, 2010 Members Share Posted January 22, 2010 Then you gotta get yourself one a these! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160378720037 Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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