Members Struttertheband Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 We're playing our first venue where the house has its own PA and I'm confused about the set-up. It's a venue is good sized and all the house has told me is that we plug everything into a stage box and it goes to house board and then to powered subs and mains and theysaid they don't use monitors. We have our own smaller PA, mixer and effects. We are planning on mic'ing drums and cabs. How do We incorporate our effects into mix and more importantly run monitors for us? We do want monitors don't we? Or am I missing something? Thanks. Let me know if You need a breakdown of our gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 What sort of venue supplies a PA but no monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 Weird. What effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dennis a Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 What sort of venue supplies a PA but no monitors. One on an extremely tight budget...you know, the one that has to prepay the beer truck driver in cash before he will roll the beer into the cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 One on an extremely tight budget...you know, the one that has to prepay the beer truck driver in cash before he will roll the beer into the cooler. In other words one that nobody in their right mind would want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 What sort of venue supplies a PA but no monitors. One that doesnt have monitors. You can play without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 One that doesnt have monitors. You can play without them. You can play without them. Singing's a different story. I wouldn't try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 You can play without them. Singing's a different story. I wouldn't try it. Why? are you not capable of floating the vocals on top of the mix where you can hear them out the mains? Bands played for years without vocal monitors. Ones with really good multiple part harmony. Its all in how you go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 Why? are you not capable of floating the vocals on top of the mix where you can hear them out the mains? Bands played for years without vocal monitors. Ones with really good multiple part harmony. Its all in how you go about it. Bands did a lot of things "for years". That doesn't make it practical in today's world with the increased SPL and subs. There won't be a chance in hell the singer will be able to hear himself. The easiest way to get some monitoring would be to get a hold of a powered speaker that has a mixer section so you can plug a microphone into it. You'd go MICROPHONE: POWERED SPEAKER: STAGEBOX. Not ideal, but you'll at least have a fighting chance as you'll be able to hear yourself clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 Why? are you not capable of floating the vocals on top of the mix where you can hear them out the mains? Bands played for years without vocal monitors. Ones with really good multiple part harmony. Its all in how you go about it. We hear very little from the mains on stage. We can feel the thump from the subs, but that's about it. 99% of our stage sound comes from stage amps and monitors. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I can't play well if I don't have a good stage mix, and a good part of getting songs right comes from vocal cues. If the drummer can't hear the singer, the odds of playing a really tight show go down dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 We're playing our first venue where the house has its own PA and I'm confused about the set-up. It's a venue is good sized and all the house has told me is that we plug everything into a stage box and it goes to house board and then to powered subs and mains and theysaid they don't use monitors. We have our own smaller PA, mixer and effects. We are planning on mic'ing drums and cabs. How do We incorporate our effects into mix and more importantly run monitors for us? We do want monitors don't we? Or am I missing something? Thanks. Let me know if You need a breakdown of our gear. I would use your own smaller PA for your monitors. Make your stage sound alright, and leave the front to the house. After all, it's their neck sticking out, isn't it? Oh, and get paid BEFORE you play. If it's good for the beer man, it should be good for you, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 Why? are you not capable of floating the vocals on top of the mix where you can hear them out the mains? Bands played for years without vocal monitors. Ones with really good multiple part harmony. Its all in how you go about it.I did it for 15+ years. You can do it but I sure ain't gonna do it again. Always thrashed my voice trying to hear myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Struttertheband Posted December 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 I agree, I am the singer and w/o mons I'm doomed, as my hearing impaired drummer is. I'm real green at this setup thing so excuse the stupid questions, but if we use our pa for monitors where is signal coming from? Where for example are the vocal mics input, into house board or into our board and then feed to house? I think I need to also try and get some more detailed info about the house setup. The venue is part of our town's new arena, the same arena who payed Neil Diamond $1 million to play 45 mins for it's grand opening. Yeah that guy that set that up got fired over that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted December 27, 2009 Members Share Posted December 27, 2009 Welcome to the trials and tribulations of performing in small venues. Most of them will present you with a challenge or two. Is this a local venue? I always try to stop by a new venue before hand if at all possible to learn what I really will be faced with so I can figure out in advance how to deal with it. Maybe they don't use monitors because the mains are behind the band. Maybe they just have DJs or solo acts.Who knows? Stop by or get the number of and talk to the house sound guy if they have one to find out what your options are. Talk to other bands that have played there. We've been known bring our own monitors to some gigs because theirs are crappy or even, as you're finding, of the nonexistent kind. I always have my own mic kit and stands too. I even carry a bag of large cup hooks with me now for hanging my own cabling from the rafters when the place doesn't have enough sends and/or returns. Unless I really know the place, I just take the whole trailer. Soldier up! It's combat audio down here with the grunts. Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 I agree, I am the singer and w/o mons I'm doomed, as my hearing impaired drummer is. I'm real green at this setup thing so excuse the stupid questions, but if we use our pa for monitors where is signal coming from? Where for example are the vocal mics input, into house board or into our board and then feed to house? I think I need to also try and get some more detailed info about the house setup. The venue is part of our town's new arena, the same arena who payed Neil Diamond $1 million to play 45 mins for it's grand opening. Yeah that guy that set that up got fired over that one.hopefully they can just give you an aux send feed to go into your gear. You'll just have one mix but that shouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 I agree, I am the singer and w/o mons I'm doomed, as my hearing impaired drummer is. I'm real green at this setup thing so excuse the stupid questions, but if we use our pa for monitors where is signal coming from? Where for example are the vocal mics input, into house board or into our board and then feed to house? I think I need to also try and get some more detailed info about the house setup. The venue is part of our town's new arena, the same arena who payed Neil Diamond $1 million to play 45 mins for it's grand opening. Yeah that guy that set that up got fired over that one. That would have to be Stockton, right? What's the venue, is it some new room at the community center or Selland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldschooler Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 I agree, I am the singer and w/o mons I'm doomed, as my hearing impaired drummer is. I'm real green at this setup thing so excuse the stupid questions, but if we use our pa for monitors where is signal coming from? Where for example are the vocal mics input, into house board or into our board and then feed to house? I think I need to also try and get some more detailed info about the house setup. The venue is part of our town's new arena, the same arena who payed Neil Diamond $1 million to play 45 mins for it's grand opening. Yeah that guy that set that up got fired over that one. Wow, does that include production also? Or did Neil Diamond take $1 million for himself only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 28, 2009 Members Share Posted December 28, 2009 Wow, does that include production also? Or did Neil Diamond take $1 million for himself only? IIRC, they were traveling with production. Turns out the folks in charge got seriously aroused over the thought of Neiil Diamond. That led to paying stupid money for a fairly small vene (Stockton Fox) Like taking candy from a baby, they would have paid $2M if they could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 I agree, I am the singer and w/o mons I'm doomed, as my hearing impaired drummer is. I'm real green at this setup thing so excuse the stupid questions, but if we use our pa for monitors where is signal coming from? Where for example are the vocal mics input, into house board or into our board and then feed to house? I think I need to also try and get some more detailed info about the house setup. The venue is part of our town's new arena, the same arena who payed Neil Diamond $1 million to play 45 mins for it's grand opening. Yeah that guy that set that up got fired over that one. You can do as tlbonehead suggests or you can see if they have a split snake where the mic goes into the snake head and there are twosnakes; One for the monitors and one for the main front of house mixer. Heres a picture of a splitter snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 What equipment are you using for your PA that would be doing double duty as monitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 I just thought of something else. Why not mix yourselves from the stage using your own equipment, then send the mixer outputs to the snake for the house and your speakers for your monitors? All of your effects and whatever will be present and the benefit is that you will have control of your mix, not some house guy whom you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 I just thought of something else.Why not mix yourselves from the stage using your own equipment, then send the mixer outputs to the snake for the house and your speakers for your monitors? All of your effects and whatever will be present and the benefit is that you will have control of your mix, not some house guy whom you don't know. that would work assuming that you have someone at this venue that knows what they are doing. The thing I thought of is just what kind of gig is this? How long does the band have to play. If its a multiple band gig ,, they wont have time to rig all this stuff up and get their set in. You dont want to be the band that starts with the PA drama routine. I think I would just go and listen to someone else play there and get a feel for what your gig will be like. Then you can figure out how you are going to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 I just thought of something else. Why not mix yourselves from the stage using your own equipment, then send the mixer outputs to the snake for the house and your speakers for your monitors? All of your effects and whatever will be present and the benefit is that you will have control of your mix, not some house guy whom you don't know. This is basically what we had to do last Saturday night.We finally just panned everything right,ran an XLR from right out of our board into their crossover,and had control over our mix.No monitors!!! I swear I haven't played a gig without monitors since I was still young,and vibrant!!! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 This is basically what we had to do last Saturday night.We finally just panned everything right,ran an XLR from right out of our board into their crossover,and had control over our mix.No monitors!!! I swear I haven't played a gig without monitors since I was still young,and vibrant!!! :lol: I did seveal last winter. No big deal, even though my keyboard was going through the mains only. I set the base level volume level from a thumbs up, thumbs down or ok from the band wife table. I could hear myself sorta. Just fired walled the solos. Its a small bar. This year we have the Eons back with a FOH mix in the third one we use as a monitor. It makes it more fun ,,,Not sure how much better is sounds in reality. I play with all old guys who are able to make do with what we got...and typically sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doorslammer Posted December 29, 2009 Members Share Posted December 29, 2009 We always take our splitter snake just in case. You can always find a way to use your PA for a monitor. And try to go by and check out the venue ahead of time. When we play a new club or venue, and it is not possible to check it out ahead of time, we don't haul anything in until we check things out and decide where everything needs to go and how we're going to run it. Makes a big difference. We used to play a club where it worked out great to couple our subs in front on the stage. Our subs were the same height as the stage and the singer would walk out on the subs and it gave us more room on stage. Not only that , it sounded fantastic in that particular room.You never know 'till you try. Life's short. Live it to the Max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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