Help with single speakon output amp - XLS602

[Chris K]

So I got a Crown XLS602 amp in a trade. It is a discontinues model with a single speakon conection and also has binding posts. Here is a blurb from the data sheet here : http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/135738old.pdf

 

Output Connectors: One 4-pole Speakon

[Unalaska]

The best option is to make a patch panel with (i prefer) 2 NL4's per function (Sub L, Sub R, Top L, Top R). You can use bare wire to hard wire to the amps directly or use a single NL4 using L on Pins 1 and R on Pins 2.

 

Parts are available at www.audiopile.net or check you local pro store. Panel, NL4MP's, Rivets, short cable (dollar store lamp wire works great!), NL4FC for amp to panel.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I plan to use this amp to power my subs (JBL MPRO MP418S). The subs have only speakon input connectors.

 

Interesting.

 

The MP418S subs should be equipped with a pair of Speakon NL4 jacks parallel wired and configurable to pick-up on either pins 1 or pins 2.

 

Might double check what you have there.

 

If so, you could run an NL4 (4 conductor) cable from the amp to the first sub and leave it configured to pick-up off-a pins 1, and pass through the first sub to the second with a second NL4 (4 conductor cable) and configure the second sub to pick-up off-a pins 2.

[Unalaska]

Who knows if the sub even passes thru pins 2 though.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Who knows if the sub even passes thru pins 2 though.

 

There's a pair of MP418S subs I've dealt with at a church where I've run sound for a couple of weddings... and I'm fairly sure I remember puttin through one of them.

 

Beside that:

 

Page 2:

 

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/mi/mp418s.pdf

 

And if it's on the internet, then it has to be true.

[agedhorse]

It is true, but be very careful to label what you choose to do. Remember they are a 4 ohm box.

[Chris K]

I like the idea of a patch panel to clean up the amp rack. So if I understand correctly, speakon out with poles 1 & 3 to one output panel jack and poles 2 & 4 to the other. Does this sound right?

 

But, if I make a patch panel is there any reason I wouldn't wire each panel jack directly to the binding posts of the amp?

 

For now I think I am just going to take one of the speakon connector off and put a banana plug on each until I get the patch panel built.

 

I don't know that I would feel comfortable reconfiguring the sub especially since I loan the subs out on occassion, and my google search didn't afford much info.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

But, if I make a patch panel is there any reason I wouldn't wire each panel jack directly to the binding posts of the amp?

 

 

I'd wire the patch panel jacks to good quality dual banana plugs.

 

While you're doing this project, I suggest finishing the project off right by setting up your patch panel and cabling for bi-amping (assuming you're running a bi-amp rig), run all 4 conductor speaker cable (jumping from your subs to your mid-highs with short jumpers) and outfit the patch panel with appropriate input (XLR?) jacks as well.

[Russell1234]

Would something like this work for you?

 

Use two of these as pigtails off your amp:

 

http://www.pimfg.com/product_detail.asp?cat=sc1d?=SK-BANANA-6

 

 

and two of these to securely lock your current SPEAKON cables to your new pigtails:

 

http://www.zzounds.com/item--NTKNL4MM

[W. M. Hellinger]

One point for getting within a shoe distance from the peg.

 

Who writes this stuff?

 

"Speakon, an alternative to TRS, are fully shielded connectors with a locking mechanism for extra connection security."

 

"Every cable is designed for optimal performance, producing unparalleled data transfer speeds while preserving utmost data integrity. " goodness

 

That's rich.

 

Oh yea, and:

 

"SpeakonTM to Banana plugs"

 

(cept I'm fairly sure Neturik (the registered owner of the Speakon trademark) has never made cord ends that look like those.

 

"AWG 17"

 

(kind of a heavy guage for mic cables... oh that's right... these are suppose to be speaker cables.)

 

"OD: 6.5mm"

 

Well that clears up some otherwise sketchy specs (not). Although I'll admit 6.5mm looks better than "slightly bigger than 1/4"."

 

"Length: 6 ft."

 

ok.

 

"Pole: 4"

 

There's only two frikkin wires shown, so what does the "Pole: 4" relate to?

 

Again: Who writes this stuff?

[Russell1234]

 

ok. "Pole: 4" There's only two frikkin wires shown, so what does the "Pole: 4" relate to? Again: Who writes this stuff?

 

 

He made no mention of whether or not he was going to bi-amp his rig or had any intention to do so.

 

Would it not be simpler to just use 2-conductor wire with male banana connectors on one end and a female SPEAKON on the other? Use whatever gauge of two-conductor wire you feel is necessary. I use 2-conductor 10-gauge plenum with architecture installs and it works just fine with 4-pole SPEAKON connectors. You are connecting to only two of the four conductors inside the connector.

 

Keep the custom made cables inside the amp rack. He currently has factory made SPEAKON cables he could then inter-connect as needed from his amp rack to his subs.

 

Solution is simple and easily executed. Just a thought....

[Unalaska]

The OP is using 1 cable per amp channel to each box. There is no 4 conductor cable at all in play, using 4 cond. with jumpers is not an option (yet).

 

You could chop the sub amp speakon's off and use banana on that end. Banana has some real problems though, with not so good ones they can fall out. And when plugging them in it's common for the polarity to be wrong on one or both. This can cause bass cancellation (1 sub working against the other etc) and issues with the mid/high cabs. I'd recommend the patch panel, and put the mid/highs on there too.

 

What has also been suggested requires 1ea 4 conductor cabling from the amp rack (panel only here) to each sub. Then a short jumper (2 conductor only) from subs to tops. Some people wire subs on pins 1+/- and some on pins 2. It would depend on you as to which to use. It would also require buying new cabling and building the correct panel.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Just a thought....

 

Yes, it's another possible solution.

 

I wasn't shooting down your idea... I was just flabbergasted by the product description (I apologize for not being clearer about that). It never ceases to amaze me, this emerging trend of: Stuff commonly being made by folks who have little or no idea what it is they are making, commonly being sold by folks who have little or no idea what it is they are selling, commonly being sold to folks who have little or no idea what it is they are buying.

 

Yup... I tell you, the world's going to hell. Why, when I was a kid we had to walk 5 miles to school, twice a day and 3 times on Sunday, uphill both directions.

[gonzobassman]

Yea,but I'll bet you guys had SHOES!!!

[Chris K]

 

Close (2 points for a leaner). The pin-outs on NL4MP jacks are labeled: 1+ 1- 2+ 2- You'll want to wire the two panel jacks on your patch panel both to pins 1+ and 1- (to match the factory wiring on your subs). You'll also want to confirm your speaker cabling is wired straight through to pins 1+ and 1- I'd wire the patch panel jacks to good quality dual banana plugs. While you're doing this project, I suggest finishing the project off right by setting up your patch panel and cabling for bi-amping (assuming you're running a bi-amp rig), run all 4 conductor speaker cable (jumping from your subs to your mid-highs with short jumpers) and outfit the patch panel with appropriate input (XLR?) jacks as well.

 

 

 

Good info here...Thanks!

[agedhorse]

Yes, it's another possible solution. I wasn't shooting down your idea... I was just flabbergasted by the product description (I apologize for not being clearer about that). It never ceases to amaze me, this emerging trend of: Stuff commonly being made by folks who have little or no idea what it is they are making, commonly being sold by folks who have little or no idea what it is they are selling, commonly being sold to folks who have little or no idea what it is they are buying. Yup... I tell you, the world's going to hell. Why, when I was a kid we had to walk 5 miles to school, twice a day and 3 times on Sunday, uphill both directions.

 

And people wonder why amps fail???

[W. M. Hellinger]

And people wonder why amps fail???

I guess what I was thinking (but didn't write): Based on the info possibly between the lines in the write-up, I'd seriously consider checking (test, disassemble and inspect closely, etc...) those banana to Speakon-like adaptor cables before plugging them into an amp. That's just my personal opinion though.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Yea,but I'll bet you guys had SHOES!!!

 

Well... sort of: The mud from walking on the paths through the forest would dry to our feet and kind-of resemble shoes. On Sunday we all got a bath though (it usually rained on Sunday) and our shoes would kind-of go away.

[6Imzadi]

Someday, Mark, I'm gonna come up there so I can just listen to you talk!

[boomerweps]

Once you understand the usefulness of the Speakon NL4 and find that 4 wire cable is readily available, going to using the 4 wire to supply two speakers, a single top and sub, makes FAR more sense than running two cables to do the same thing. You just route two different amp channels to each pair of NL4 contacts on the panel you make. And then have one set of wires feed the sub and one set passes though the sub to the tops with a short jumper (that MAY be 2 wire, connected to the correct contacts of the NL4).

 

And once you make the input/output panel for the mains, you'll see how much simpler it is to do for monitors, too, whether the monitor amps are in the ame rack or not. Saves time and aggrevation not having to look & reach inside the rack. And simpler for "helpers" to understand ASSUMING the jacks are well marked.

 

Boomerweps

[6Imzadi]

I am planning on working on my amp rack soon after the new year.

 

I gonna try to put up a spreadsheet.... Nope, only a doc file.

 

Well, anyway, it's for revamping the entire rear of my amp rack with connector panels, etc. Also, powercons. I love those things.

 

NL8 to the speaker from the amp rack, then NL4 to the tops from the subs.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

NL8 to the speaker from the amp rack, then NL4 to the tops from the subs.

 

I'm of the reduncency school (always have options pre-planned).

 

If you're gonna go NL8 from your racks to your stacks, then NL4 jumpers (rather than keeping it all NL8), I suggest engineering in double NL8's somewhere in the stacks and on the patchbay for the inevitable situation where an NL8 paneljack fails. Total failures of NL8 cordends are lower on the possibility list, but I've found it's a somewhat higher probability to have an NL8 paneljack go south... and there's quite a bit riding on the assured function of the jacks.