Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi Everyone, I'm hoping your expertise can help me figure this out. I use several fine archtop guitars with Kent Armstrong floating pickups, and cannot get a good sound through the PA when I go from the Direct Outs of either an Ultrasound or a JazzKat amplifier. Acoustic/electric guitars with internal pickups work fine with the setup above. Micing is not an option due to stage volume of the band. Here's what I have tried: I'm considering either a preamp (Radial Tonebone PZ-Pre) or DI (Baggs Venue) to go between the guitar and the board. Are there better options? Thanks for your help...and Happy New Year! -Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 What exactly doesn't sound good??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hi agedhorse, The sound doesn't resemble the archtop sound coming out of the guitar amps, regardless of how I tweak eq, etc. It doesn't sound much better than if I go straight into the Mixwiz. Sorry if this is vague, and thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Does it sound too bright, muddy, boomy, thin? My mindreading skills are not all that great after the new year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 With eq's set flat, muddy. Much tweakage does not get me close to the amplified sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 How does it sound through your amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Sound through the amps is good - clean, not muddy or boomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Have you selected pre eq from the direct out on the amps? Are you using much eq on the amps to get your sound through the amp? The direct out should be similar to your amp. If you are using a lot of eq on the amp to get the sound you want, you might look at what you are doing. I wouldn't expect any difference using an external preamp, something must be going on that you are not aware of. Do you have anybody local to you that's a really technically savvy acoustic player? Maybe they can see immediately what's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 The direct outs on the amps are only Post-EQ. I do have to adjust the amp eq (they only have bass, middle, treble) to get a sound I like. So a dedicated preamp or DI wouldn't necessarily improve the sound? I appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 I forgot to add that no, I don't know any players in the area that use similar gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 I contradicted myself: on the JazzKat I turn the bass up 1/3 of the way, but mid and treble off. The Ultrasound I run flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 If you turn the mid and treble all the way down, the post eq signal will definately sound muddy. If you really run the ultrasound flat, you have something else going on and you need somebody technically savvy to look at your rig. Just to clarify, flat is eq controls at the 12:00 position right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 If you like the sound you are getting out of your amp,why not mic the amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 agedhorse: yes, tone controls at 12:00 gonzobassman: due to stage volumes, micing is difficult I'm still trying to figure out a dedicated preamp or DI would improve the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 agedhorse: yes, tone controls at 12:00gonzobassman: due to stage volumes, micing is difficultI'm still trying to figure out a dedicated preamp or DI would improve the sound. You are taking what amounts to a dedicated preamp out of your Ultrasound with the eq set flat. Really, you need to have somebody troubleshoot your setup before buying more stuff. Figure out (really) what and where the problem is rather than guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 due to stage volumes, micing is difficult What specifically about the stage volumes is making micing your guitar amp difficult? I've miced guitar amps with acoustic guitars running into them at over 115dB (probably over 120dB) ambient stage volumes with what I've considered to be excellent results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members b_goatman Posted January 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Agreed, don't want to buy unecessary items....I was suggesting additional tone-shaping that the amp's 3-band eq doesn't provide. I perform with a 4-pc band - vox, drums, bass plus me. Using an SM57 on a mini-boom results in stage resonance and/or feedback problems. We run the sound ourselves from stage, and I need to minimize issues. I admit to being a tone freak, but really believe that an expensive archtop should be able to sound good through the PA. Vocals, drums, and my electric rig all sound great. I appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basschaplain Posted January 3, 2010 Members Share Posted January 3, 2010 Maybe find a long-time, good guitar player in your area to help you.He/She might be able to make suggestions for positioning your amp, your SM57 and setting your system to mic your amp.I've been on stages that almost made my ears bleed; still had no problem with our guitar amps being miced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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