Members injected Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 I'm slowly building a pa system. right now i have 2 12'' speakers, an amp for them, and an adequately sized mixer. When I buy actual mains, those speakers will become floor monitors. I have 8 aux sends so I'm covered for... well, 2 monitor mixes. That should cover... the lead singer, and someone else. Perhaps the keyboardist or the drummer? Anyhoo, I'm gonna need some more monitors. And I'm not particularly interested in carrying around more speakers and amps. So I'm looking for iem's. I'm thinking the lead vocalist could use the one floor monitor, and the drummer or whatever. Everyone else would be wired up with IEM's. So what's a decent priced system I can use for IEM's that's wired? I'm gonna need about 3 or 4. It seems logical to just plug in headphones to the aux jacks but something tells me that won't work. What's the most efficient cost effective way to go about? I'm also worried about tripping on cables and whatnot. Any tips? Get extra extra long cables? stuff some up the shirt so if you trip,. you only pull a little cable out? Anything? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LightingPimp Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 if your going to use a IEM go wireless no cords to worry bout:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members injected Posted January 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 I would love to but i just don't have the budget. I don't want to buy junk. I would want some Sennheiser G2's or something but they run like $300 a pair USED... i think i need to go wired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zbad55 Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 We started with the wired system, and bought the Shures PSM200 hybrid pack. this is wired right to the board or the snake depending on how you want to do it. They work fine, drummer still uses the wired system and we have had no problems with these. These are shures entry level unit for IEM's but they work fine for our needs. Just remember if you go wired, you will always have to deal with the cable. I tried going wired for the first couple fo times and didn't like it, so I bought the wireless reciever and everything is fine. Hope this helps, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 12, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 If you can't afford wireless, only use wired for the drummer and maybe a keys player if you have one. Wired IEM's for anyone else on stage are a major annoyance...adding an IEM cord to a guitar cord doesn't double the annoyance factor....it increases exponentially. Trust me...you'll rue the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samkokajko Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 Also a quick note. You will need quality earbuds (see at least $100 probably) that give a good fit or you will not get hearing protection, bass, clarity, etc. +1 for going wireless on EVERYONE except drummer and keys. It really is more trouble then you might think. In your case that may be the deal breaker to get floor wedges instead. Also I would put the lead singer on the IEMs before any other. Singers usually need LOTS of themselves and putting them on buds means you now have no feedback with them. That would be the first place I would put in-ears. Also make sure if you go wired to use an actual IEM system not just a headphone amp. You need a product that has limiting in it. When you have such efficient earbuds so close to your eardrum, failure is not an option if you ever want to hear anything again. Limiters are VERY important and come standard on all IEM systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 12, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 but NOT with headphone amps, or those Rolls "more me" type boxes. Be very careful when spec'ing purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members injected Posted January 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hmm. okay, that seems doable. Wired on the drums and keyboardist, and for myself and the singer, using wireless? Is it alright for the bassist to use his amp as a monitor? He doesn't really move around a whole lot and he can kind of keep a little perimeter around his amp or whatever? What kind of system would I have to use for a wired system? Is it alright to just plug the headphones straight into the aux out of the board or do I need something special? Is it alright for the drummer to use a big over ear headphone? Do we really need expensive specialized headphones, or can I stick with decent senn's? Particularly, eH250's for the drummer and CX-300's for the keyboardist...? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 Are you really talking about "can" headphones? In my opinion headphones on stage makes the performers look like dorks and also builds an invisible wall between the performer and audience. I know, some people do it but in my opinion it looks really bad on stage. Earbuds are mostly hidden and look more professional on stage. This is just my personal opinion but it is also a pet peeve of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 Bassist's amp as a monitor? Do you mean so he can hear himself or so he can hear vocals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 12, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hmm. okay, that seems doable. Wired on the drums and keyboardist, and for myself and the singer, using wireless?Is it alright for the bassist to use his amp as a monitor? He doesn't really move around a whole lot and he can kind of keep a little perimeter around his amp or whatever? What kind of system would I have to use for a wired system? Is it alright to just plug the headphones straight into the aux out of the board or do I need something special? Is it alright for the drummer to use a big over ear headphone? Do we really need expensive specialized headphones, or can I stick with decent senn's? Particularly, eH250's for the drummer and CX-300's for the keyboardist...?Thanks Cans look realy dorky. But if that's the schtick you're going for, hey, why not? Specifically about what to use, that's 100% personal preference....go with what meets all of your needs best...sound, comfort, appearance, price, reliability. No, definitely do NOT plug headphones directly into the aux outs. You need limiting, first, and second, the aux won't drive them properly. The IEM system as mentioned earlier MUST have limiting, which pretty much means you need one of the packaged systems specifically designed for IEM use. Shure PSM200's are durable, affordable, better by a far measure than the cheaper Galaxy, Nady or Carvin systems that undercut them on price, and have the advantage that even their more expensive brothers (PSM400, 600, etc.) don't....the bodypack is set up to use wired or wireless. Plug a 1/4" plug into it, it's wired. Buy the transmixer, it's wireless. The bassist can't use his amp as a monitor without a bunch of kludged-out workarounds to mix an aux signal with his bass, dealing with bad feedback, lord only know s what the vocal tone will sound like, it's going to project that mix into the audience. Please don't go there. Compromise is good...but that's taking it too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 12, 2010 Members Share Posted January 12, 2010 Cans look realy dorky. You think? The good news is they would sound a lot better not having to go through a radio and it's compander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 12, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 You think?The good news is they would sound a lot better not having to go through a radio and it's compander. Oh, but he's got a gong....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members injected Posted January 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 Okay, thanks. I'll stick with shures or senns for the wireless. I probably won't make anyone wear cans. Maybe some Senn cx-300's. But for the wired ones, it seems dumb to go buy a complete IEM system just for the limiter or whatever, because the point is to not spend a whole lot. Isn't there a better way? And as for the bassist using his amp as a monitor, I mean just having his bass amp at volume loud enough to where he can hear himself well. Has absolutely nothing to do with other sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members samkokajko Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 I have a little bit of a hard time with wired IEMs for that reason too. Just seems like an odd amount of money for the limiter. My solution...get another wireless. If you are using cans you could probably get away without a real IEM system, however I have never really found a set of headphones that I was anywhere near as happy with as good earbuds. By the time they get loud enough to compete with stage volume they just sound harsh and hurt my ears. I dunno. I'd probably look for used Sennheiser G2 systems. They are immensely popular and well liked and just recently got stupid cheap as they released the G3. I personally own the Galaxy unit and am satisfied with the quality...unless I can get a Senny at the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 But for the wired ones, it seems dumb to go buy a complete IEM system just for the limiter or whatever, because the point is to not spend a whole lot. Isn't there a better way? If the point is to not spend a lot and potentially cause permanent hearing damage then you are correct. The limiter is there to protect the hearing of the person using the IEMs. It isn't there just to make the costs go up. Cans or any other hardwired ear monitors can damage your hearing. That is not just wireless units that cause problems. ANY in ear or even wedge monitor's should have limiters. I've have tinnitus and have had it for close to 25 years. That's 24/7 noise in my right ear. How much is a limiter worth? Knowing what I know now, I would have paid $1,000,000 for a limiter 25 years ago. Dont gamble your hearing for a couple of hundred bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 But for the wired ones, it seems dumb to go buy a complete IEM system just for the limiter or whatever, because the point is to not spend a whole lot. Isn't there a better way?It's mostly a question of liability why they don't sell stand alone limiters for IEM's. The body packs are sold with the earphones and are set to be safe just with the earphones that come with them. Using louder earphones like many people do kinda screws that up - no? I've run headphones directly off of balanced outputs and have heard of people running IEMs that way - if I was gonna do that I'd drive them off of a four channel compressor/limiter and set it for hard fast limiting starting with the lowest threshold and turn it up from there until I was happy with the volume. I'd start with headphones first to figure out what I was doing and then run it first with the earphones not in your ears with an MP3 playing through the system to set an initial level and make sure it was controllable enough before sticking them in my ears. But then you run the risk of someone bumping the settings or some such. Don't know how loud earphones would be with +22db or so out the balanced outs but with headphones I don't remember it getting so loud I was worried about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members injected Posted January 13, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 What I mean is, I don't want to say screw it and not get a limiter. I'm just saying, there has to be a cheaper more cost-effective way. The last post mentioned something about using a compressor to act as a limiter? That would be substantially cheaper.. But i have no idea how it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 What I mean is, I don't want to say screw it and not get a limiter. I'm just saying, there has to be a cheaper more cost-effective way. The last post mentioned something about using a compressor to act as a limiter? That would be substantially cheaper.. But i have no idea how it would work.I opened up an XLR to TRS adapter and rewired it to feed both the tip and ring from pin 2 of the XLR - unfortunately I don't know if anyone makes an adapter like that. That adapter is great for troubleshooting stuff or just screwing around with a new piece of gear . I think I started with one of these: http://www.zzounds.com/item--CBIAN426 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zbad55 Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 I'm not sure what kinda of budget you have or are willing to spend, but like I mentioned in my earlier post, you can pick up the Shure PSM200 Hybrid bodypack, for about $275.00 and cheaper used. Then get whatever earbuds that you want, the better the earbud the more money they cost, you decide. And with that you have a very good wired system with built in limiters that sounds good, and all you have to do is plug the cable into an aux send. Also with that hybrid body pack, if you do want to go wireless all you have to do is add the transmixer when your budget allows and you now have a wireless IEM system that sounds decent for the price. Believe me, I tried to do the headphone amp thing and it was a PITA, and I was getting close to the cost of the Shure bodypack, so I scrapped that idea after talking with people here and taking their advice, we went with the PSM200 system. We could'nt be happier with our set-up now, no more wedges, ears not ringing at the end of the night and everyone can hear everything. I know the Shure PSM is just an entry level system, but it works great for our needs, we play out a couple times a month so I did not want to spend alot of money, so for a total investment of $275.00 for the body pack, and $89.00 for the Shure SCL4 earbuds. we all got started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 13, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 What I mean is, I don't want to say screw it and not get a limiter. I'm just saying, there has to be a cheaper more cost-effective way. The last post mentioned something about using a compressor to act as a limiter? That would be substantially cheaper.. But i have no idea how it would work. Which is why you should not attempt this. If you don't have the limiter set correctly, your hearing is still in danger. Note that you can buy the Shure PSM200 body pack separately. That plus a set of earbuds = IEM system. The cost is about $300 vs $600 for the system with transmixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 As Craigv has stated, you are much better off picking up the PSM200 receiver alone, as it can be wired or wireless. If and when you want to go wireless, you can pick up the transmixer and you will have a complete IEM system. That way your hearing is protected and you have started piecing together a very good IEM system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zbad55 Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 As Craigv has stated, you are much better off picking up the PSM200 receiver alone, as it can be wired or wireless. If and when you want to go wireless, you can pick up the transmixer and you will have a complete IEM system. That way your hearing is protected and you have started piecing together a very good IEM system. That was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 13, 2010 Members Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hopefully the OP will get the hint. Gambling with hearing is just not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members injected Posted January 14, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 14, 2010 Eh. Alright. I guess I can't really get around it. We'll just have to maximize what we have as we go along because we won't be able to afford all those systems right away. I love wireless iems i've got to use a sennheiser one before (forgot the model) and I just loved them, being able to move around and stuff. But they are definitely not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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