Should be an easy question...

[55gibby]

I never post here but I have a question for you good people:

 

 

What is a proper mic for a Choir? It's a group of around 10 singers in a semi-circle. These folks need some micing but they have little money and less experiance. They have a small band with them and a set of floor monitors (if any of that matters)

[Tomm Williams]

I asked a similar question that was answered by many good folks on this site and here's what I have done: I use a pair of Shure sm 81's in an x-y position or spread out per 3-1 rule if need be. I don't know what you're meaning of "not much money" is but you could substitute Shure's for AT pro 37's and probably be happy. Enjoy TW

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I never post here but I have a question for you good people: What is a proper mic for a Choir? It's a group of around 10 singers in a semi-circle. These folks need some micing but they have little money and less experiance. They have a small band with them and a set of floor monitors (if any of that matters)

 

An easy (straight forward or at the least, very common) question. A good (get-er done) answer could be involved.

 

Chances are just sourcing the "right mic" isn't an end all solution... although it's a good start.

 

What's the venue specifics? What's the system? What's the competency of the operator? What's the competency level of the vocalists? What's currently being used and what's the seeming deficencies?

[55gibby]

 

An easy (straight forward or at the least, very common) question. A good (get-er done) answer could be involved. Chances are just sourcing the "right mic" isn't an end all solution... although it's a good start. What's the venue specifics? What's the system? What's the competency of the operator? What's the competency level of the vocalists? What's currently being used and what's the seeming deficencies?

 

 

It a small church (around 1100 sq ft), with very high ceilings (the ceiling is more than 12 ft above the choir). The choir itself sings from a small raised alcove. They stand in a single file semi circular line that is like 10 to 12 feet across. They have a 16 channel Mackie board (they currently use only 4 channels, in total) to a 500 watt (I think) 2 channel Mackie amp. The system does have a feedback limiter and a room EQ (2 channel), tho neither seem to be hooked up properly. The monitors are ran from a second amp that is ran off the board, somehow (I haven't really looked at it yet). The operator for this choir has very little experiance with doing live sound, so it needs to be kept pretty simple. The choir itself seems to be pretty good and they have a very strong musical director, with a strong musical background. Currently the are using a SM58, set on a boom stand, pointed at the center of the choir. The SM58 goes into a patch bay, then to the board. The director is using an electric keyboard that is ran into the patch bay (via a DI) as well (hence the need for the monitors). Right now, the main issues are: Feedback from the monitors, crappy sound (the mic only picks up a few voices) and a weak voice lift.

 

They we given the gear and some of the men in the church hooked it up, none of them have hooked up a sound system before. When we gigged there last week, we brought our own PA. This sparked a lot of questions from the person that runs the sound (mostly: why don't you use our system? and Why does yours sound so much better?). Foolishly, I offered to take a look and see what's up with their system. From what I gather, they may have around $300 to fix things up.

 

 

Thank for any help, you folks can provide

[Special J]

First, there should be absolutely no choir coming back at them through the monitors. That's just the way it is. Chances are, they've never rehearsed with it, so ultimately it's doing them no good. They should be able to hear themselves as a group acoustically. If not, they're doing it wrong. If anything at all, they should have some piano or keys coming through the monitor for key and cues, and that's it.

 

Tomm's suggestion was a good one that I've had luck with. Pay close attention to what else the mics are picking up. It sounds like if the choir is by themselves in an alcove, it shouldn't be an issue, but many times I see the choir put in front of the band so that the choir mics are picking up more band than choir. That's bad. Make sure the choir mics are well away from and behind the main PA speakers. I've had good luck with a variety of different mics in this application. SM81's are a good choice though. Since your sound guy is kind of clueless, I might see if there is a good sound contractor in the area that can help you get things running properly. It will be worth it in the long run. While we can try to be helpful from in front of our monitors, someone with a clue actually visiting the space will probably be a lot more helpful.

[55gibby]

 

First, there should be absolutely no choir coming back at them through the monitors. That's just the way it is. Chances are, they've never rehearsed with it, so ultimately it's doing them no good. They should be able to hear themselves as a group acoustically. If not, they're doing it wrong. If anything at all, they should have some piano or keys coming through the monitor for key and cues, and that's it. Tomm's suggestion was a good one that I've had luck with. Pay close attention to what else the mics are picking up. It sounds like if the choir is by themselves in an alcove, it shouldn't be an issue, but many times I see the choir put in front of the band so that the choir mics are picking up more band than choir. That's bad. Make sure the choir mics are well away from and behind the main PA speakers. I've had good luck with a variety of different mics in this application. SM81's are a good choice though. Since your sound guy is kind of clueless, I might see if there is a good sound contractor in the area that can help you get things running properly. It will be worth it in the long run. While we can try to be helpful from in front of our monitors, someone with a clue actually visiting the space will probably be a lot more helpful.

 

 

It may come down to hiring someone with a clue (I'm a guitarist, not a sound guy). I do know the small band (guitars, drums, bass and keys) are all really close to the choir, like right next to them. The band doesn't go through the PA, only the director/keys does. I may take a trip over there this sunday and see the actual set up, for myself. The answer just may be that they will have to change things up to get everything to work properly and hire someone who knows what they are doing.

[BillESC]

A hanging choir mic would be my suggestion. Audio Technicas U853RW is the correct mic for the application. If you can't afford it, AT's PRO 45W is a less expensive option.

 

Either can be suspended or if necessary they can be mounted to a boom mic stand with the included stand adapter.

[agedhorse]

Also, the sound will be more coherent as well as easier to mic well if they oriented themselves to 2 rows of say 6 or 6 people with a single hanging mic. They will be able to hear each other better too.

 

Also, use just enough mic to get the job done, no more. Sounds more natural that way.

 

Fix the sound systm first.

[55gibby]

I may drag the bassist (ours) to the church with me... if I can get him out of bed on a sunday morning. He actually has a clue, he does our sound and owns our PA system (which sounds killer, BTW). He does some live sound for other bands as a sideline. As for me all I ever do for sound is set up my stands, pop in the mics, plug in the mics and toss the bassist the other end of the cables (I play guitar with two amps).

 

I'll have to see if there is a way to put in a hanging mic or two. It's a building that was built in the 1920's and is all either stone or block walls (great for acoustics... if you love un-wanted sound reflection). I know they have a bunch of boom mic stands (like 10 of them), but only one stick mic.

 

I'll propose this (please correct me if I'm wrong):

 

1) set up the rack gear correctly

 

then

 

2) move the band away from the choir

 

then

 

3) re-arrange the choir

 

then

 

4) look at new mics

[lifeloverwg]

At our Church we have hanging AT mics like Bill suggested that work the best. Unfortunately, the choir no longer sings where they hang and I have nothing to hang them from in the new location...

Now I use one or sometimes two AT boundary mics instead which I don't like as well. I often put a wireless SM58 up on a stand for a soloist to stand by or if the men's section is small I'll sneak it in there too. Most any SD condenser works pretty well on choir too.

 

If they are having feedback issues, they either have the choir mic in the monitors, which is a no no, or they need to look at the monitor or FOH speaker placement. If the 31 band is hooked up right, ringing out a couple frequencies there might be all they need. If they are near the band make sure they understand that the loudest sound at the microphone wins. It's one of God's rules. Sing louder, have the band play softer, or get closer to the mic.

 

Good luck, Winston.

[agedhorse]

You might listen to the rearranged choir before mic'ing. The volume/projection might increase enough not to need mics.