Members wheresgrant3 Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 A bit of a dilemma here. We're a high energy dance band that is running out of room on a 16 channel board. We have a 16 Ch. Allen & Heath Mix Wiz which we love very much. Into that board we've used (I believe) nearly every channel mixing drums (4), vocals (4), guitars (2) Keys (2-in stereo) drum sampler, acoustic, DJ equipment... . We've decided to add a 6th member to the group and we are out of mixer inputs. Now I submix my many keys through my amp... I have several keyboards I run in stereo to a Traynor K4... which I run to the FOH mixer in stereo. My sub is a good friend, and I've loan him this amp while I've been recovering. I've returned to play a couple of shows and we've played together side by side. It's incredibly dynamic. We cover all kinds of parts together I would normally have to drop out on. When I've returned for these shows I've brought a seperate line mixer with a DI, submixed my additional keyboards, and plugged into an available input on my keys amp. It's worked like a charm. He's a great player, great personality... he brings a little extra to the group. We've decided that when I return to add him as a permenant member. To make matters a bit more complicated... when I return, I'll be on the opposite side of the stage. So we can't really share the same amp to submix all of our keyboards... unless we want 30ft cables running back and forth. So how would you effectively organize all of this to accomodate 16 channels on the main FOH board. Keep in mind... we're not going to upgrade the board at this point. This would effectively be the setup Ch-1 lead VocalsCh-2 Backing vocalsCh-3 Backing VocalsCh 4 Backing voxChan 5 Lead guitarChan 6 Rhythm guitarChan 7 BassChan 8 kickChan 9 snareChan 10 tomChan 11 tomChan 12-His Keys monoChan 13- My keys monoChan 14- Drum samplerChan 15-AcousticChan 16 DJChan 17- his guitar? I have a 10 channel line mixer we could use near the snake to collectively send all the keys into one channel. How disruptive would that be to the sound? What's the best way to approach this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcastar Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Sub mix the drums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Why are you running the DJ equipment into a channel on the mixwiz?Why don't you put a 15 or 31 band EQ on the signal from the DJ and send that into the ST2 return on the board?Then you still have everything covered with just the mixwiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 You can get away with using a "Y" cord for the two tom mics.If you have two backing singers that only sing and share a monitor mix you can "Y" their mics too.+1 on what Vinny said - DJ goes into ST2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Maybe it's a good time to look at the appropriate board for the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allexcosta Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Sometimes you can get by with a kick mic and a condenser for drums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Sometimes you can get by with a kick mic and a condenser for drums...Yah, I tend to do that myself - kick plus one overhead . I usually have the overhead's "high" tone control all the way down as the frontline vocal mics already pick up plenty of cymbal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Normally I'd suggest cutting back on a drum mic or whatever. Truth is you've already cut back more than I'd suggest. Time to look at a 24ch A&H, you need the room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yep, either consider Sys-Link and another Mixwiz (only because you stated you love the mixer) or move up in framesize to a GL- series. they're everything you love about the Mixwiz, on steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 He only needed one channel and we already told him several ways to do that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 He only needed one channel and we already told him several ways to do that . Only needs 1 channel now. Musicians are horrible about adding 1 more thing to their rig. Unless they're old, then they downsize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drummer_jay Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 I wouldn't go with the kick mic plus overhead option. Unless that was the last option. I'd send the keys into the line mixer, considering the EQ for the keys will probably be somewhat similar. I'd also never use a y-cable to combine too different mics.. Asking for A TON of major issues there.. One toms louder than the other.. One guys voice isn't the same as the other guys voice, thus requiring seperate eq settings. The one overhead works well outdoors or in large rooms where you're wanting some cymbals in the mix... But not indoors when that's the last thing you need more of! Putting two VERY similar instruments into one line mixer (keyboards) seems best. Perhaps purchase a very small 4/6 channel yamaha mixer and use as a keyboard sub mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 He only needed one channel and we already told him several ways to do that . And? I added an option that wasn't mentioned, and wouldn't require a compromise and no further expansion. Is that okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Keep in mind... we're not going to upgrade the board at this point.Q.E.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 5, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 "at this point" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 He'd also need a new snake for the bigger board = even more $$$. Actually I'm surprised he doesn't have a channel taken up by a talkback mic? Not having a separate talkback input is one of the few things that sucks about the MixWiz . My 'ringer MX3242X had that and still had 16 mic channels, subgroups and a full meter bridge to boot and was still rack mountable . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted February 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Thanks for all of the suggestions. Actually I was a bit wrong on somethings so I asked for some clarification from our sound guy. Ch-1 - Lead voxCh-2 - Bass voxCh-3 - Guitar vox Ch-4 - Drum voxCh-5 - lead guitarCh-6 - rhythm guitarCh-7 - BassCh-8 - SamplerCh-9 - keyboardCh-10 - keyboardCh-11 - Kick Ch-12 - snareCh-13 - rack tomsCh-14 - floor tomCh-15 - acoustic Ch-16 - mp3 / dj AUX 1 - Vox in ear monitorAUX 2 - Vox in ear monitorAUX3 - Vox in ear monitorAUX 4 - Drummer stage monitorAUX 5 - Internal Board effectsAUX 6 - Keyboard stage monitor The keyboards are usually setup in stereo, so we would just run them in mono from each side of the stage to accomodate both rigs. I would use the line mixer on my side of the stage to run my keys into one channel. I guess we could run the acoustic into the line mixer as well? (we use it for just one song per night and not at every show). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 I'd still dump the DJ onto ST2 and use that channel for a talkback . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted February 5, 2010 Members Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yep, either consider Sys-Link and another Mixwiz (only because you stated you love the mixer) or move up in framesize to a GL- series. they're everything you love about the Mixwiz, on steroids. I got my hands on a A&H GL-2400-32;4 last week What a beautiful board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Thanks for all of the suggestions. Actually I was a bit wrong on somethings so I asked for some clarification from our sound guy.Ch-1 - Lead voxCh-2 - Bass voxCh-3 - Guitar vox Ch-4 - Drum voxCh-5 - lead guitarCh-6 - rhythm guitarCh-7 - BassCh-8 - SamplerCh-9 - keyboardCh-10 - keyboardCh-11 - Kick Ch-12 - snareCh-13 - rack tomsCh-14 - floor tomCh-15 - acoustic Ch-16 - mp3 / dj AUX 1 - Vox in ear monitorAUX 2 - Vox in ear monitorAUX3 - Vox in ear monitorAUX 4 - Drummer stage monitorAUX 5 - Internal Board effectsAUX 6 - Keyboard stage monitor The keyboards are usually setup in stereo, so we would just run them in mono from each side of the stage to accomodate both rigs. I would use the line mixer on my side of the stage to run my keys into one channel. I guess we could run the acoustic into the line mixer as well? (we use it for just one song per night and not at every show). Here's my suggestion. Ch-1 - Lead voxCh-2 - Bass voxCh-3 - Guitar vox Ch-4 - Drum voxCh-5 - lead guitarCh-6 - rhythm guitarCh-7 - BassCh-8 - SamplerCh-9 - keyboardCh-10 - keyboardCh-11 - Kick Ch-12 - snareCh-13 - tomCh-14 - tomCh-15 - floor tomCh-16 - acoustic AUX 1 - Vox in ear monitorAUX 2 - Vox in ear monitorAUX3 - Vox in ear monitorAUX 4 - Drummer stage monitorAUX 5 - Internal Board effectsAUX 6 - Keyboard stage monitor Run the mp3 player into one of the stereo returns in the mono input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevieb Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 I know I'm late to the party, but this is what I'd do: Ch-1 - Lead voxCh-2 - Bass voxCh-3 - Guitar voxCh-4 - Drum voxCh-5 - lead guitarCh-6 - rhythm guitarCh-7 - Bass(All above like you presently do it) Ch-8 - Buy an inexpensive 4, 6 or 8 channel board and sub-mix the Sampler and keyboards. Ch-9 - Buy an inexpensive 4, 6 or 8 channel board and sub-mix the drums. Ch-10 - mp3 / dj That leaves you 6 channels for future expansion- and as imnotded mentioned, you WILL expand. 8-channel boards would be best, and not much more money. They needent be top quality- heck, you could probably get by with (GASP!) Behringer boards for that. You will find other uses for them after they have been around a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1tribe Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 Is the DJ a part of the act or band? Or is he brake music? If so I would just switch imputs with the DJ/MP3 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 It seems like you have enough channles to me. Another vote for ditching the mp3 player from a channel. Otherwise, the less cost than a new board, gear solution would be something like a small rack mount line mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted February 6, 2010 Members Share Posted February 6, 2010 While a little reverb on the snare can be real nice, drop the snare as an input. The tom mics and the vocal mics should pick up the snare adaquately unless it's muffled to hell. I avoid "Y"ing mics like the plague, too many disadvantages, a net loss of definition. Yes, put the drum sampler through the line mixer for one of the keys to free up another channel. Also a dedicated channel for a one time use acoustic guitar is a HUGE waste. Reroute that through the key line mixer, too. You've got a lot of musicians for a 16 channel board so compromises will have to be made. You really need to seriously look at either a 2nd Mixwiz with SYS-Link or a GL2400-24 AND a 24 input channel snake. Sub-mixing drums or anything else other than keys on-stage is a bad compromise. To put it bluntly, your band with that mixer will flat out suck PA-wise for an outdoor show ;>( Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike M Posted February 7, 2010 Members Share Posted February 7, 2010 Does anyone here actually use two Mixwiz's with the SYS-LINK option?Please advise.Mike M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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