Your typical input list/order?

[drummer_jay]

An earlier thread about how to expand or combine inputs got me thinking. He has his input list (that he got from his sound guy) posted and I'm curious as to how everyone does it.

 

When I walk up to a console and see anything besides kick drum on channel one, I automatically assume the worst! I know this isn't always the case, everyone has thier own way of doing things... Whats yours?

 

Assuming your working with a basic rock band... drums, 4 vocals, 2 guitars, 1 acoustic, 1 bass guitar, possibly sampler or one track of sequence's? Indoors, no OH needed.

 

Here's my typical setup on a 16 channel console. Assuming one with internal FX.

 

1. Kick

2. Snare

3. Tom

4. Tom

5. Tom

6. Bass DI

7. Bass Mic'd

8. Gut SL

9. Gut SR

10. Acousitc DI

11. VOX (from SL to SR)

12. VOX

13. VOX

14. VOX

15. Sampler/Seq

16. Talk back

 

If I'm doing it MY WAY and it's in a bigger venue.

 

1. Kick (beta 91)

2. Kick (beta 52)

3. Hi-hat

4. OH SL

5. OH SR

6. Snare (top)

7. Snare (bottom)

8. Tom

9. Tom

10. FL Tom

11. FL Tom

12. Bass DI

13. Bass Mic'd

14. Gut SL (57)

15. Gut SL (E609)

16. Gut SR (57)

17. Gut SR (E609)

18. Acoustic DI

19. VOX (from SL to SR)

20. Vox

21. Vox

22. Vox

23. Sampler/Seq

24 - 27 SKIP

28. FX (drum verb)

29. FX (Vox verb)

30. FX (Delay)

31. FX (Misc FX)

32. Talkback

 

Let's see yours! ?

[SpaceNorman]

I'm not a sound guy .... My inputs read from left to right - with lead vocalist being # 1, followed by the rest of the vocalists pretty much in order of vocal contribution (the guy who throws in a few unison lines is the last in the vocal line), next comes the instruments ... Sax, Guitar, Keys (two channels of input from submix), Bass, drums (two channels of drum submix) - lastly two channels of effect returns.

 

Mixing from stage as I do - I like having the vocals starting from the left simply because it's where I tend to make the most of my adjustments - and I find it's easiest to quickly find the desired slider. Stuff in the "middle" of the board takes a little more looking to find.

 

I realize this is back-asswards from how most guys set 'em up .... just one more reason I'm not a sound guy.

[Unalaska]

I like vocals to the right of th master section since I am right handed, more ergonomic to make adjustments. Not so much with drums.

[Square]

I do mostly festival work so my standard plot looks like this:

 

1)Kick B52

2)Kick B91

3)Snare

4)hat

5)Tom1

6)Tom2

7)Tom3

8)Tom4

9) Overhead Left

10) Overhead Right

11) Left open

12)Instrument mic/line 1

12)Instrument mic/line 2

13)Instrument mic/line 3

14)Instrument mic/line 4

15)Instrument mic/line 5

16)Instrument mic/line 6

17)Instrument mic/line 7

18)Instrument mic/line 8

19)Instrument mic/line 9

20)Instrument mic/line 10

21)Vocal 1

22)Vocal 2

23)Vocal 3

24)Vocal 4

Other vocals added as necessary

 

F/X brought back in on stereo channel inputs

 

If I have a head liner, I start them on channel 1 and start the openers on channel 25 or 33 depending on how many channels the headliners need (I have not had a headliner need more than 32 inputs so far).

[Deke08]

Im with Norman on this one. When we started running sound from stage, it was easier to have the VOX starting at channel one since those were adjusted most.

Now that Im running sound more than playing, the board is the same.....its not back-asswards, just a preference

 

1. SL vox

2. C vox

3. SR vox

4. Drum vox

5. Bass

6. Snare

7. Tom 1

8. Tom 2

9. Floor tom

10. Kick

11. Gtr 1

12. Gtr 2

13. Delay

14. Verb

15. talkback

16. CD/mp3

[modulusman]

I use to start with the vocals and have the drums last. In the last few years we have been doing more shows with soundmen. They all seem to want to start with the kick so I switched. Makes it easier if we are using a splitter snake and running our IEMs onstage.

[gspointer]

I keep the most used channels nearest the main/group faders

[drummer_jay]

 

Im with Norman on this one. When we started running sound from stage, it was easier to have the VOX starting at channel one since those were adjusted most. Now that Im running sound more than playing, the board is the same.....its not back-asswards, just a preference 1. SL vox 2. C vox 3. SR vox 4. Drum vox 5. Bass 6. Snare 7. Tom 1 8. Tom 2 9. Floor tom 10. Kick 11. Gtr 1 12. Gtr 2 13. Delay 14. Verb 15. talkback 16. CD/mp3

 

 

I'm all about what works for each peson. But that said, starting with vox IS ass backwards in the world of sound guys and sound reinforcement!

 

I can see where that would work better for you. I usually use sub mix's so if the vox as a whole need to come up, it's easy. I also sometimes in a dark situation will use yellow board tape below the REALLY important faders..

 

We all have our own ways of getting things done... although not always technically correct.

[drummer_jay]

 

I like vocals to the right of th master section since I am right handed, more ergonomic to make adjustments. Not so much with drums.

 

 

That makes sense.. I try to do that if it's my show and I'm working on a split console. Most of the time, I'm walking into a situation where it's not my gear.. and they FREAK out if I start re-patching things.

[TimmyP]

I once BE'd in a venue where the houseman set the vocal channels up "by contribution/in order of importance". That may work for the studio, but it's a PITA live. If there are four vocal mics on stage, I (and 99% of other mixpersons it would seem) want the vocal channels to be in the same order as the mics.

 

On a center-master console, I like to have the vocals to the right of the master section and the instruments to the left (with the drums to the far left). This puts the vocals under my dexterous hand and the instruments under my weak hand, with a near shoulder-width spread between them for comfort.

[RoadRanger]

From having bands show up late and maybe too cheap to pay me to bring the "big board" I used to just start patching left to right the most important first, sometimes having to finish patching after the first set . Anyways vocals first, acoustic guitars, kick, percussion, (stop here if late) bass, guitars, drum overhead, more mics on the drums - something like that. Oh, and I'm also sorta left handed and usually mix with both. Without a sound check (way too common) I'd be working through them in that order anyways. Heck, I'd probably be labeling the channels during the first set too .

[agedhorse]

I'm all about what works for each peson. But that said, starting with vox IS ass backwards in the world of sound guys and sound reinforcement!

 

That's quite an ASSumption. My suggestion is that before you make a comment like that, one that may offend some of us here by it's sheer ignorance and inexperience, you might want to learn a little bit about how and why the TWO different numbering/assignment schemes came to be. You automatically assume the worst when you see vocals starting at #1 do you? I sure wouldn't want to deal with an attuitude like that on the road, you are bound to run into difficulties with those you have to work with.

 

Starting with vocals was the defacto standard in the US, and the Brits more or less started with the drums first in the UK.

 

The reason for this is that micing was traditionally assigned in terms of importance, and through the 60's and 70's, the vocals were generally the most important part of the mix. In fact, there were a lot of groups that didn't use drums, or where in smaller venues, drums weren't mic'ed.

 

During the British invasion, when the music started getting a little harder and more drum driven, as well as with the advancement of PA systems that became more capable of reproducing drums loudly and solidly, the drums became more forward in the mixes.Unfortunately, too much of a good thing has led to some modern mixes being so drum heavy, especially kick drum heavy that it detracts from the rest of the band. Why? Because they can. Anyway, out of British arrogance ( ), they started with the drums, and then it became cool for some of our domestic sound guys to follow suit... after all anything British was "mod". You weren't cool if you didn't have a Soundcraft "desk" (good grief, we didn't even have the balls to keep calling them consoles) and some BSS or KT prestige ego stroking piece in our racks, even though they failed all the time. There were folks who made complete business of srvicing and rebuilding Soundcraft power supplies... they were that unreliable.

 

That said, I generally start with the vocals on channel 1, run through SR to SL, DS to US, and then pick up with the instruments SR to SL, DS to US, and then percussion (if present) then the trap kit. If there's a stage plot with input list, I'll ask the BE which way he prefers it and even if it's started with kick on the list, about 1/2 the time they say they really prefer starting with vocals but get tired of explaining why to the "kids" and just go along like sheep.

[drummer_jay]

Agedhorse,

 

I know you know everything about everything. You can call my thoughts offensive, but in the last 9 years of working with, for and alongside proffesional crews, I've seen one start with vox maybe 2 or 3 times.

 

I understand the history you've pointed out and I also understand I've offended your way of doing things. I'd be very confident saying your way is not the standard way of doing things. I learned form some pretty qualified people and that's the way I was taught.

 

The reason I assUME the worst when I see vocals starting the input list is because everytime that has happened, the sound guy has turned out to be a joke. Guilty by association perhaps.

 

I don't have the time and interest in learning how, why and where certain numbering schemes were developed. Besides, thats what you're here for.. to jump down my throat for using modern ways and not being familiar with something that predates my date of birth by decades.

 

Now I'm starting to remember why I went away from this board for so many years. Certain people are NEVER wrong and will never admit to being wrong... although they are at times.

 

I've never once been aware of anyone having a problem with my "attitude" on the road. WHY? Because I keep thoughts to myself. I take things as they come. If I walk in and the input list starts off with vocals, I deal with it. I don't tell a guy he's a jackass because his inpust list doesn't jive with my way of doing things.

 

Perhaps YOU shouldn't ASSume you're the only professional with experiance that happens to be around here. I watch you constantly come into threads and blast people for having independent thoughts from your own.

 

My thoughts.. not yours... Feel free to call me ignorant, inexperienced and uneducated some more.

[agedhorse]

I still do enough A & B circuit shows to know that what you say is just not true. You are stating something as fact that is inaccurate. Perhaps you do not have the wider range of experience that I have, or you run in very different circles. Both numbering schemes are still very common, and in fact the last show that came through from S. Korea started vocals from channel 1. It looks like two of the next three shows I have coming through start with drums, the third starts with vocals. Whatever... it looks to me like some folks like one way and others like the other way.

 

Regarding your comments towards me, you say you don't like it here and you don't like my comments, you get disrespectful with me (and other older more experienced folks here I might mention), so why do you come back? Nobody invited you to come back, as you say you now remember why you went away.

 

If this place is not for you then the in door also makes a fine out door. Don't make us miserable hanging around.

[allexcosta]

In 23 years as a musician I've never seen an input list starting with vox outside of the USA, unless it's a bar gig that has only vox on the PA. Kick comes first, every time, everywhere...

[DaBender]

I'm another Norman method practicioner.

[drummer_jay]

Your response is exactly what I'm talking about. I'll be the first too admit I don't have as much experiance as you. How could I?

 

S. Korea? Cool... I don't have any idea how they do things there.

 

This is the fist time I've "disrespected" you or anyone. Unless you call disagreeing being disrespectful? If so, then you've disrespected me many times!

 

I came back, because I enjoy talking about the things we tend to talk about here.

 

I've either worked or have attended some huge productions/tours over the last several years.. and THATS where I'm coming from. Now, maybe the FOH guys for Nickelback, SHinedown, Breaking Benjammin, Elton John, Garth Brooks, Coldplay, Sugarland, REO Speedwagon, Three Days Grace, Stone Sour, plus too many damn "has beens" to count all do things wrong according to your thoughts... but it works for them... so I'm good with it.

 

Also, I got to pick the brain of who I consider to be THE MAN when it comes to live sound... and he does it the way I've learned as well.

 

I'm not here to be in a pissing match with you.. I'll lose. You're smarter, more experianced and probably better looking. I just don't appreciate you jumping down my throat when you have no idea where I'm at in my career or what I've been a part of.

 

I'm sure there's many people who find you abrasive, I just felt the need to defend myself.

 

I said previously, there's no right or wrong way but there is a common way.

[agedhorse]

 

I've either worked or have attended some huge productions/tours over the last several years.. and THATS where I'm coming from. Now, maybe the FOH guys for Nickelback, SHinedown, Breaking Benjammin, Elton John, Garth Brooks, Coldplay, Sugarland, REO Speedwagon, Three Days Grace, Stone Sour, plus too many damn "has beens" to count all do things wrong according to your thoughts... but it works for them... so I'm good with it.

 

 

I never said this way was wrong, I said that there were 2 schools of thought regarding assingment of inputs. You seem to have a problem with that, and were insulting with regards to my suggestion that there was indeed an alternative that was/is commonly practiced.

 

You started this with your comment in your original post, and then expanded on the insulting comments. When I suggested that there were indeed other ways to do this and WHY, you got defensive and more insulting. That is what I do not like. I never said that it's not common to start with drums now, did I?

[Scodiddly]

I learned drums-first, on a Soundcraft "desk" no less. But whatever works, works. Though some guys like to stay away from channel 1 with anything, because that channel seems to get the most wear & tear.

 

These days my usual input list is pretty varied, because I'm not doing many shows, rock or not.

Let's see..

Kick

OH L

OH R

Bass DI

Bass mic

Guitar

Piano low

Piano high

Piano tail (don't use this, ever - long story)

Sax 1

...

Sax 5

Brass 1

...

Brass 4

 

Vocalist

Band solo

Guest solo

Bandleader solo

Bandleader vox

...

iPod

Maybe a reverb return

[Scodiddly]

Though actually the sort of gig where you have the nicest conditions, and the biggest paycheck, end up looking like this:

 

Lav 1 (CEO)

Lav 2 (President)

Spare lav

Audience Q&A 1

Audience Q&A 2

Laptop DVD L

Laptop DVD R

(iPod, for initial system check & tune)

[DaBender]

My reason for starting with vocals is simple. Many times, that's the only thing going through the PA, and if there's just one singer it's me, so I'm #1. Kick drum is last.

[drummer_jay]

 

I never said this way was wrong, I said that there were 2 schools of thought regarding assingment of inputs. You seem to have a problem with that, and were insulting with regards to my suggestion that there was indeed an alternative that was/is commonly practiced. You started this with your comment in your original post, and then expanded on the insulting comments. When I suggested that there were indeed other ways to do this and WHY, you got defensive and more insulting. That is what I do not like. I never said that it's not common to start with drums now, did I?

 

 

Maybe my very fist post was misunderstood?

 

I said, "When I walk up to a console and see anything besides kick drum on channel one, I automatically assume the worst! I know this isn't always the case, everyone has thier own way of doing things... Whats yours? "

 

I think, "I KNOW THIS ISN"T ALWAYS THE CASE" is pretty polite and shouldn't sound offensive to most?

 

I never set out to offend people... Matter of fact, I've often been called a little too nice.

 

You're reply wasn't about two different schools of thought. If it was, that was quickly lost in your tone and choice of wording. Technically, calling me an ass, ignorant and lacking experiance would most likely fall under the "disrespectful" column.

 

There's no need to constantly display your superior knowledge and vast amount of experience... I think we all respect you, know your wise and a book of knowledge. I think we also all know that if we don't agree with you, we should just move on. Like I'm going to.

[drummer_jay]

 

My reason for starting with vocals is simple. Many times, that's the only thing going through the PA, and if there's just one singer it's me, so I'm #1. Kick drum is last.

 

 

Makes perfect sense. Tonights gig for me.. Depending on the room might just have kick, bass, guitar, vox and ipod. Makes for a boring show for me, but it's all that is needed sometimes.

[jwlussow]

1 Kick

2 Snare

3 Hi Rax

4 Lo Rax

5 HH

6 Ride

7 Crash 1

8 Crash 2

9 Vox 1

10 Vox 2

11 Vox 3

12 Guitar 1

13 Guitar 2

14 Bass

15 Program 1 (L)

16 Program 2 ®

[drummer_jay]

 

1 Kick 2 Snare 3 Hi Rax 4 Lo Rax 5 HH 6 Ride 7 Crash 1 8 Crash 2 9 Vox 1 10 Vox 2 11 Vox 3 12 Guitar 1 13 Guitar 2 14 Bass 15 Program 1 (L) 16 Program 2 (R)

 

 

Crash 1 and 2? You're using electronic drums correct?

 

Program? I know I shoud know this!!! Is this your sequence or break music? Damn it! I should know this!