Best Mixer for me (plus other outboard stuff)

[joms]

I will be using this for our home karaoke sessions. Right now I have the Allen & Heath - Zed10fx mixer and I've been reading about compressors and a lot swear that they would increase my overall sound quality. However, the zed-10fx doesn't have an insert so I am now looking for a replacement. (small format mixers only with max width at 16" and depth at also 16")

 

So my questions are:

 

1) Which mixer should I get to replace the Zed-10fx. I am looking at the Soundcraft EFx8 or MFXi8. I believe they both have "insert" so I can use an outboard compressor. I tried looking at the zed12fx but they are just way too big. At most, I can only accommodate the MFXi8. Any other small format mixers to consider? (budget around $600)

 

2) Are outboard Effects much better than those found in mixers like the EFx8/MFXi8? (they have lexicon effects). Will I get much better sound quality if I buy a Lexicon MX400/MPX500 or TC-helicon? (Note: I am not really a sound engineer so the simpler the better. I just want Quality and not too many adjustments since I don't know how to adjust anyway.)

 

3) What outboard compressor should I get? What is the difference if I put the compressor a) between the mic and mixer b) in the mixer insert c) between the mixer and amplifier? (budget around $350)

 

4) I also need a good quality Feedback Suppressor. What are the best choices our there for around $350?

 

5) Can I hookup all these 3x outboard items if I get the MFXi8? 1) Compressor 2) Feedback Suppressor 3) Effects? How do I hook this up? If this can't be done then my priority is Compressor then Feedback suppressor then last is the effects (Since the mixer already has an effects in it).

 

Thanks

 

*added: pic of our small living room that houses our karaoke sessions

 

 

[Tomm Williams]

If all of this is for home karaoke, invest in better speakers or a better mic.

[joms]

Mic - 2x SM58 direct to mixer / 1xSM7b to a Focusrite ISA One then to mixer

Speaker - Music is from my home theater system 5.1 which sounds very good.  For vocals, I use a single QSC K10 from the main output of our mixer. I place the K10 speaker in the middle by the floor pointing a bit upwards. I am thinking of adding another K10 to make it stereo but I don't know if it would help the sound quality that much. The single k10 is loud as it is. Also, I can't use speaker stands due to WAF and there's really no space to put it since people pass those spaces behind the system. (that's the dining area and that's where we place the food during our party)

Note: I just added pics to my original post so you can see my system.

 

 

 

 

[agedhorse]

Compressor takes a line level signal. Can not go between mic and mixer. Compressors can also exaggerate feedback issues by increasing the average gain (reducing peak gain to do so).

 

Are you sure your sm58 is genuine and not counterfeit? Fakes are common, and often have poor feedback resistance.

 

You won't be able to tell the difference between the mic preamps, don't believe the marketing jabber.

 

The fx on both mixers is plenty acceptable. That's not going to be your limiting factor anyway, not by a long shot.

[joms]

yes my SM58 mics are all original. I bought them from an authorized dealer for around $150+ each. the sm7b is around $400+ i think. I also have an original PG58 mic (my original mic)

 

The reason why im getting feedback is because sometimes our guest goes near the TV where the vocal speaker (QSC K10) is. I just want us to have the freedom to roam around without fear of feedback.

 

What would you then suggest sir?

[remarkable1967]

Hi,

Been using a Soundcraft EFX8 for over a year now and I love it. The effects are really nice and it was this that swayed it for me over the Zed10fx. Plus it is built like a tank.

 

Mark

[agedhorse]

At this point, I think you (the OP) are looking too hard for a solution that may not be as good as the advertising copy suggests. But, this is what these manufacturers can sell to hobbiests so that's why they are available.

Just turn down a little and work on better mic technique and you will find that the problem solves itself.

[Tomm Williams]

Are you already boosting any frequencies by other means (tone controls,etc...) if so, turn everything to flat.

[joms]

 

well i only increased the bass part via the mixer controls on my mic. It makes my voice sound better. That's it. I don't have an external EQ yet.

 

Oh and by the way, I'm still not sure if I got the gains right since im still reading about how to properly set gains. Sometimes wht i read contradicts so I need to find a really reliable source on how to do it. Got any suggestions?

[Tomm Williams]

Have you tried going direct into the k10 with your vocals?

[agedhorse]

Speaking of mic technique, the 767 is very unforgiving of poor technique. Could end up being far worse than an sm-58. If you don't want to coach your singers, it's one of the worst possible choices IMO.

[OneEng]

 

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agedhorse wrote:

 

Speaking of mic technique, the 767 is very unforgiving of poor technique. Could end up being far worse than an sm-58. If you don't want to coach your singers, it's one of the worst possible choices IMO.

---

 

As you know from other posts, I have found situations where my beloved ND767a's didn't work as well as I had always thought they did (due to poor mic technique and bad singing practices), but IME in Karaoke at home, the ND mics have worked pretty darned good (as well as in my own bands usage).

The feature that makes them less prone to feedback, is the same feature that makes them not pick up vocals well from 2 feet away (ie a singer holding the mic at arms length while punching out a loud passage of lyrics).

At $100.00 I would still recommend giving this mic a try.  If the OP doesn't like what it does, they easily sell on eBay for nearly what you paid for it.

[Tomm Williams]

Have you tried dialing back on the reverb?

[Tomm Williams]

Before running off and buying a new mic, you should exhaust every FREE option. IMO, the 58 is a well behaved mic. I really don't think its the root of your problem

[joms]

Yeah i tried dialing back the reverb and its not that. The sound is just too damn loud but that's ok as long as we all have fun. Our place is their favorite hang out place because of this. (they can't sing as loud at their houses due to gear & neighbor).

Tomm - I'm actually buying a new mic because of 2 reasons, 1) to try to mitigate my feedback problem, 2) to try it out if it really performs as good as you guys are saying. This made me think though. Would you still recommend this 767a mic if I didn't say that I have feedback problems? Or would you recommend something else?

Wow Heil PR35 has a mic with a switch. very tempting to try out too. By the way, does the wireless EV 767 perform as good as the wired 767 which you all have been recommending?

On a side note, if you all have been wondering why I keep on asking and not try things out right now to see if changing mics will solve my feedback, the thing is I am still ordering the items from ebay and have them shipped to my friend in US (im also ordering different stuff not related to our karaoke gear) wherein he will compile them all then ship them to our place in the Philippines. Normally it takes 2 months+ since it is via sea freight. So while waiting for my items, i keep reading/asking till it gets here LOL

 

 

 

[Tomm Williams]

If you are determined to add a mic to your collection, I would choose the Senn 935 before the 767 or pr35. I have used all three and the Senn is my favorite. Now wait for the deluge of dissenting opinions.

[agedhorse]

 

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Tomm Williams wrote:

 

If you are determined to add a mic to your collection, I would choose the Senn 935 before the 767 or pr35. I have used all three and the Senn is my favorite. Now wait for the deluge of dissenting opinions.

---

 

I agree.

Ebay microphpones? Did the OP's SM-58's come from Ebay too? If so, I would expect counterfeits as much as I would expect genuine.

[agedhorse]

For good counterfeits, sending to the msnufacturer for warranty servicd is generally the way they find out. Happens ALL the time. The problem is that it's hard to tell, but all that I have seen sounded different and had poorer off axis frequency response.

 

Does Amazon sell counterfeit items? Probably, and hopefully not, but if they take returns, it'd not uncommon for a genuine SM58 to be exchanged for a fake. This too happens frequently.

[mikekars]

You can find some info on counterfeits by searching.  But there are different fakes and it is a moving target.

I recently got a fake Beta58a and compared it to a genuine one. It was new and it was a very good imitation.  Had the warrantee card, the box, the clip, everything except the "shure" decal.  Here were some of the differences:

Fake- weighed 1/2 ounce less than the real

Fake - slightly lighter paint and finish did not seem as "deep"

Fake - thinner blue band around windscreen

Fake - windscreen mesh material thinner gauge

Fake - green and yellow interior wires to capsule were thicker

Fake - "shure" label on mic barrel very slightly different

Fake - leatherette pouch slightly smaller with a different font on embossed "shure" logo

Fake - white inspection stamp on capsule head very crisp and clean vs. smudged "hand done" look

Not having a steady supply of new Bet58a's, I was prepared to accept these differences as just typical manufacturing changes with a new item.  My old Beta58 must be 6 years old or more by now.

But the BIG difference was the handling noise.  The fake exhibited all sorts of handling noise and tapping on the windscreen made this abundantly obvious.  Never really got to any performance testing but that probably would have been sub par also.

After returning the fake to the ebay seller I just got a new genuine Beta58a from an authorized dealer.  I can tell you that somehow they are still manufacturing them to look virtually the same as the old ones. Still comes with the same packaging, pouch, clip, and cable tie.   Even the finish has exactly the same tone and luster.

The only difference I see is there was a second threaded screw hole near the bottom of the barrel on the old ones that is not present on the new one.  Not sure what that was for anyway maybe another way to lock a mic cable in place.  And the letters "CE" are etched into barrel near the bottom on the new one.   So I suppose if you have an old one around that is a good way to spot a fake.  ANY difference would seem to be a tip off.