Correct use of GEQ

[wesg]

I just accidentally bumped into an old thread, mostly between Andy and Don Boomer and spotted this quote:

 

And it says so ... but how many times do you see graphics with the bottom few sliders dumped? I do a lot. I would say it's common practice and now as this test proves it's not a good way to do it. And then there are guys that turn on the HP filters in their power amps on top of it ... stupid!

 

Okay, so Don says I'm stupid, LOL.

 

I use GEQs in my system, one per monitor. Mains and monitors are NX55P (pretty flat). I enable the 100Hz HP filter on the monitors (except the keys monitor), the 40 or 50Hz HP filter on the EQs (depends on EQ), the first three EQ bands at -12, the 40Hz band at -6. Then I use the GEQs to tune the monitors as best as I can, cutting no more than 3dB except I roll off the very highest end of the monitor EQs. After tuning, vocal mics get feedback eliminator inserts to "run cleanup". Most nights the feedback eliminators have made about 6 cuts each by the end of the show. Sometimes if I have a ringy/boomy frequency during sound check, I will increase the level on that fader to induce feedback, then the eliminator will clamp it and it will be fine by the end of the night.

 

I also sometimes use the GEQ in my DRPX for my mains, rolling off the last couple of sliders to try and make sure I have enough headroom. Then I will cut 1-4 dB on "boomy" frequencies (if I can -- identification is still tough for me) and will sometimes put a little peak around 2k when the room is muddy to try and improve vocals' intelligibility. I never use the automatic eq in the PX because I have read everywhere online that it really stinks.

 

We have a lot of open mics (4 vox, 2 congas, Leslie, guitars, drums), but I have been getting good results with my strategy lately. The two things that have helped the most were going to a Line 6 wireless mic for the singer (3ms delay makes feedback harder to start, and it removed the need for one wired mic) and a gradual lowering of our stage volume. I did a show on Saturday where I was pressed for setup time, and left the monitor EQ cuts the same as the were in the basement, and left the DRPX unplugged. The sound was fine on stage and great out front. My system tuning that night mostly revolved around pushing a few sliders, having a listen, then turning down the effects return and pulling the mains forward about 18".

 

What strategies do you guys tend to employ when EQing a bar band?

 

Wes

[Tomm Williams]

Wesg I do this a bit different. Regardless of venue, I only concern myself with the frequencies that are showing themselves to be an issue. I use a couple of racks of Peavey GEQ's with FLS with the 40hz filter engaged for monitors and a Sabine Graphic Q for FOH. I also keep a Sabine 2400 for back up.

My procedure is to drop each problem frequency by about 3-6 db until I've reached 6 frequencies then I stop. This provides me with far more headroom than I have yet needed. I too use Line6 mics but a number of other wired mics as well. Though I might drop some frequencies at the extreme ends on the channel strip EQ's, I do so if the sound calls for it, not as a feedback concern. I believe at the end of the day, if you've come up with a way that works for you and doesn't cause other unwanted issues, stick with it.

[wesg]

Thanks, Tomm. It's always nice to discuss strategies because I think that's the best way to learn new things to try. I find I often have a better handle on what I want to achieve than how to achieve it. There are plenty of guys in my area that are the opposite ... if I can keep improving my skills, I might actually be pretty good at this some day.

 

Your post reminds me that I have a Peavey FLS EQ on two of my monitors, but seldom use its LEDs. I should pay more attention to those. I actually would like to find another pair of these EQs, they might be a good way for me to find and isolate the "boomy" sound I hear sometimes, since frequency ID is still tough for me.

 

FWIW -- I drop the frequencies on the left of GEQ because I figure they aren't useful and suck up power. I drop the frequencies on the right of the GEQ in my monitors because I figure nobody in the band can hear them anyway, we're all old ...last thing I want is 12Khz feedback that I am completely unaware of.

 

Wes

[dboomer]

I used to run GEQs with the top and bottom bands dumped like you ... Until I learned better . Nobody died so I guess it's ok but it causes some artifacts which you don't want. Just use the HP and LP filters instead.

 

One of the secrets to getting a great sounding system is not to add a bunch of artifacts here and there because you just do know any better (which is a common problem). So every one you can avoid goes in the plus column.

[wesg]

Interesting way to look at that ...... essentially, there will be phase problems in adjacent bands, I'm guessing is what you're getting at?

 

"Leave well enough alone" is not a bad philosophy, it's one I use regularly.. for example, I don't really "shape" anything when I do sound reinforcement. I generally just try to get what goes in the mic out of the speaker with as little adjustment as I can get away with. I figure that's the least subjective criteria for doing a decent job, even if a better sound guy could add some polish to do a better job.

 

None of my GEQs has LP filters, though. HP are a bit lower than I want, but I have 100Hz ones in my speakers, anyhow.

 

Wes

[Tomm Williams]

And scratching my memory banks concerning stacking filters........ I seem to recall both Don and Andy stating that if you engage multiple HPF's, it can cause phasing issues.

[dboomer]

Correct

[Tomm Williams]

Don is there an advantage to where they get applied? I have them available in my amps, EQ's and on channels. Heck even a few mics too (AKG 391's)

[dboomer]

Probably not a big advantage but it depends on the system. I'd start early in the chain as standard practice.

 

The thing to watch is if you add a HP filter say at the channel input but then boost the hell out of the low end somewhere after that. You also need to consider the slope of the filter you do apply to make sure it's appropriate.

[wesg]

That was actually something alluded to in the GEQ shootout you guys were talking about in the original thread from 2008 (which is no longer available). It would be nice to know the filter slopes of the EQs in my racks - my assumption is that they are all around 12dB/octave, but I don't really know. I have a DOD unit, a Peavey unit, and a DRPX.

[Mogwix]

I stopped using GEQs a while ago. I use the PEQs on the bus output.