Onyx 24-4 for IEM monitor world?

[wesg]

Hey, folks!

 

My band is contemplating going IEM. We're trying to figure out what it will cost us. We currently use a Mackie Onyx 24-4 to mix the band when we supply PA. My thinking is to use the Mackie to mix the in-ears when working at a club with a PA and sound man; then I could mix monitors for the band, let the house guy worry about FOH and go from there. .....should I use an XLR-XLR splitter snake, or would this be a good application for the DB-25 ports on the back of this mixer?

 

I know several local bands that mix IEMs from stage and send a single XLR to the FOH guy. That strikes me as a good way to hobble yourself.

 

While I'm on the topic of snakes - will the standard Neutrik XLR strain relief grip that tiny snake channel cable properly, or is there a better connector to use?

 

Thanks,

Wes

[B. Adams]

How many inputs do you need? How many outputs do you need? That mixer doesn't have a lot of aux sends, although it might be enough for you.

 

I'd recommend always using the same console for monitors, not switching it between FOH and monitors. It's all about consistency.

 

Personally, I'd go with a small rack mounted monitor console, probably digital if you're comfortable with that. Ideally something that's capable of wireless control of individual mixes. Maybe something like an X32 rack or an M32R if it has enough inputs and outputs, although you can always add to it. Your band will love being able to mix their own IEM's on their phone. Mount a Seismic split snake in the rack and run one side to your monitor mixer, the other side to FOH. Spend the extra money on the 30' fantail. With everything mounted in a rack, it will significantly lessen your setup time, and the setup will be consistent no matter where you go.

 

Either way, definitely use a split snake, don't use the DB25's on the Mackie. Direct outs aren't a good substitute for a split, and using DB25's is just asking for trouble. The Seismic snakes are surprisingly well made for the price. I'd recommend getting a split snake with a larger channel count than you think you'll need, since you'll likely add equipment in the future. A 24 channel split doesn't cost all that much more than a 16, and a 32 isn't much more than that.

 

Neutrik connectors will work fine on pretty much any audio cable or snake you'll come across.

 

 

[trevcda]

If your comfortable with digital, that would definitely be the way to go. If you can live with 16 inputs and prefer to not go digital, I highly recommend the A&H MixWizMon. It's a 16 in x12 out (6 stereo) dedicated monitor mixer with a built in splitter. One of those in an 18ru rack with your IEM transmitters and 20' fan out to fan out for the FOH snake and your good to go. The MixWiz can be found relatively cheap these days as digital is the new pretty girl. I've got mine racked up with a six channel Rane amp and six channels of eq. It works great and when needed, we can roll in with our mic package and patch into the rack then of to FOH with what we need and everything else goes to directly to FOH. I even use it gigs when I'm running our own sound as it keeps our monitors consistent, no matter what the monkey dancing on the faders (that would be me) does to the gains or anything else on the FOH board.

 

Personally I've not had good luck with Seismic Audio cabling stuff. I think you can do better with EWI from Mark.

[wesg]

B. Adams - we run 20 inputs for a mono FOH, 22 for stereo. Curious why the recommendation for more aux sends? Stereo? Onyx 24-4 has 6; when we use that board for wedges+FOH, we do four separate mixes and two effects sends. If we're using it to mix IEMs, we won't need the effects sends (five-piece group).

 

You're right about the band members certainly loving having control over their own monitors mixes. That is definitely part of the end goal if we decide to go ahead and bite the budget bullet. The Mackie is only proposed as an interm step. Currently, I'm the only member rehearsing with in-ears, I'm sort of the beta-tester. The improvement in my vocals has been noticed, although I'm having a hard time learning how to get my Leslie stage level correct.

 

Thanks for the note about the DB25s. I'm going to look into finding a splitter snake. I'll have a peek at Seismic (never heard of them). I guess one advatnage of tablet mixers is that the snake can be shorter, since it doesn't matter where the mixer is. Can't buy EWI from Mark, I'm in Canada, but I'm sure somebody else sells it up here.

 

Trevcda - comfortable in principle with digital, but the idea of going on without a physical control surface gives me the willies!! This is possibly because I'm a day-job IT guy with telecom-reliability expectations. The MixWizMon you mention sounds interesting, stereo auxes, wow!

 

By the way, how do you roll out that amp/eq rig? Is that part of your 18RU case? I currently cart two 6U cases and a 4U case to gigs, plus something to set the mixer on. I've been wondering if I shouldn't just buy a 16U (or so) case on 3" casters, throw all my crap in there, then set the mixer on top. Might be a bit harder to lift into the van, but it would be faster to schlep...

[trevcda]

It is a dedicated monitor board, designed for that purpose. I bought mine somewhat pre-affordable digital and it still does it's job, so I've had no reason to replace it. I usually use one of two options; first is all inclusive in that the Rane MA-6 and six channels of EQ (I put a set of rails on the back side for patch panels and one of the eqs) along with the MixWizMon are all in the single rack. The Rane MA-6 only provides 150W x 6 and will work for a most of what we do. I also have a second ten space rack with three PL340 amps with a jumper snake that goes to the 18ru that I can use for larger, louder or multiple monitors on each output. And, yes, it makes a great place to set a mixer! This and an 18ru effects rack hold a large format Soundcraft board nicely and at the perfect height. I'm hoping to justify the switch to digital someday soon, but I will probably still keep the monitor system for the "table" and the consistency of the monitors, while I fumble with the new toy.

 

I originally purchased that board with the idea of going IEMs, but never made the leap, mostly because of a lot of resistance from the band, and the inconsistencies of IEM product quality each of us would purchase. The guitar player and myself would have bought Sennehieser G series with custom molds while the keyboard player and drummer would have dug up something from Nady with $3 dollar ear buds and then complained about them through the end of time. It's happened before with wireless mics, wired mics and cables.

[wesg]

Thanks, Trev. Some good information in there. I like to learn how others work so I can get an idea of "best practices", if you know what I mean. Re. mismatched gear........how did you get in my old band?! We had more problems with mismatched wedges (it was a "bring your own" deal) than you can shake a stick at. Now I own the wedges and EQs. Life is better. But I guess you can't do that with in-ears, kinda gross. The IEMs aren't really the costly piece, though. It's the belt packs. Wired are cheap enough. Wireless, not so much, unless you want Samson (not me). Sennheiser G stuff looks great. Why isn't Line 6 in this space?

 

I'm thumbing through MixWiz 12M docs ATM. Built-in passive mic splitter! That's a pretty nice feature.

 

I've also been mentally going through my load-in. If I get an 18RU rack, I figure I can save myself 25-30 minutes of work total per show where we provide PA. That's pretty significant. I would pre-wire it, run an umbilical to the board and have a fixed jack panel on the front for plugging in wedges, tops, and subs. Looks like it would give me a "counter height" of ~33" with the right casters. Time to start banging on doors to find a used one.

 

Wes