Jump to content

Leaving cables wrapped (using the cable as the tie) for long periods


Recommended Posts

  • Members

I've been doing electronic DJ production with my rig almost exclusively for the past couple years. That leaves some 20+ XLRs sitting around as we typically use a main DJ mixer. I just use the cable to tie them off. I try to rotate them out of use but the question is: will leaving them wrapped with the cable as the tie reduce their lifespan? Maybe that's a dumb question, but I'm anal as hell with my cables and I'll do what's necessary to get the most out them. 200$ worth of XLRs is a lot to me.

 

I really don't like those velcro ties and I only use actual ties on the big stuff, but I'll go for those if I need to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I've been doing electronic DJ production with my rig almost exclusively for the past couple years. That leaves some 20+ XLRs sitting around as we typically use a main DJ mixer. I just use the cable to tie them off. I try to rotate them out of use but the question is: will leaving them wrapped with the cable as the tie reduce their lifespan? Maybe that's a dumb question, but I'm anal as hell with my cables and I'll do what's necessary to get the most out them. 1K$ + worth of XLRs is a lot to me.

 

I really don't like those velcro ties and I only use actual ties on the big stuff, but I'll go for those if I need to.

 

Why don't you put them on a reel?

 

Louis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Like end to end? Meh. While that would have some advantages, I like to be able to grab however many I need and toss them in a bag and go. When walking around, put 3 here, 2 there and so on. "Hey, we need a 30 footer over here." "wait, I need to unreel 3 15 footers to get to that 30 footer." That's not going to work with me. Descent idea, but not for me. I'm all about speed. Plus, I actually enjoy wrapping cables. It's like a meditation at the end of the night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I use three of these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-16-3-150-ft-Cord-Storage-Reel-with-Stand-CE-100PDQ/100028177 for my mic cables.

One for 50' cables, and two for 25's/30's.

They are cheezy looking but very efficient IMO

 

When I get to a gig I put one on top of a rack and pull what I need - easy.

 

At the end of a gig I clear the mic stands, etc. and wind'em up attaching them as I go.

 

Gotta find some black ones....a winter project for me...

 

Mike M

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I use three of these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-16-3-150-ft-Cord-Storage-Reel-with-Stand-CE-100PDQ/100028177 for my mic cables.

One for 50' cables, and two for 25's/30's.

They are cheezy looking but very efficient IMO

 

When I get to a gig I put one on top of a rack and pull what I need - easy.

 

At the end of a gig I clear the mic stands, etc. and wind'em up attaching them as I go.

 

Gotta find some black ones....a winter project for me...

 

Mike M

 

I tried this briefly but felt like it put a lot of pressure on the strain reliefs of the cables. When 2 cables are connected the connectors are too long to wrap around the hub nicely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author

 

I tried this briefly but felt like it put a lot of pressure on the strain reliefs of the cables. When 2 cables are connected the connectors are too long to wrap around the hub nicely.

 

Exactly, in my opinion they are worse than any other method as far as cable strain is concerned. And the more you tug on the bitter end, the more the cable winds down on the core, pulling harder/sharper on the ends.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author
Like end to end? Meh. While that would have some advantages' date=' I like to be able to grab however many I need and toss them in a bag and go. When walking around, put 3 here, 2 there and so on. "Hey, we need a 30 footer over here." "wait, I need to unreel 3 15 footers to get to that 30 footer." That's not going to work with me. Descent idea, but not for me. I'm all about speed. Plus, I actually enjoy [b']wrapping[/b] cables. It's like a meditation at the end of the night.

 

Indeed, it can be meditative, But...."wrapping"? How exactly are you coiling the cables? Your description sounds a little like you're wrapping the cable around your elbow and wrist, then pinching the middle and taking the last few feet to cinch the middle. There are several somewhat similar methods, called "alpine coil" and "butterfly coil". This is how rope is stored, but cables are not like rope, and the method (if that's what you're using, please elaborate...) will eventually twist the cables into curly-guitar-cord messes.

 

The safest method is called "over-under" or "figure-8". A quick google using "how to over under coil" will show you several video's demonstrating the method, which is difficult to describe, a little difficult to first try, but once you've done a few and are able to simply hold one end and toss the cable across the stage, with it uncoiling neatly and lying flat, you'll never use any other method.

 

Holding the coiled cable for storage....use tape, Velcro, twist ties, cable clamps, trick line....anything that works for YOU. When over-undered, cable lies coiled nicely, no twists. If the cable has previously been abused and is a twisted mess, it won't coil neatly no matter what you do. So learn using a new cable if your others are twisted. If the label printing twists around the jacket, the cable is twisted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author
Over under' date=' yes. Not al DJs "construction worker" their cables you know. [img']http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/core/images/smilies/wink.png[/img] I use a small piece of nylon string on anything bigger than an XLR.

 

Will gently tying them off like that reduce their lifespan?

 

To be clear, I've never had any issues with DJ's. There are knowledgeable folks in every field, and I don't take surveys to determine their %. Oh, and I'm in construction.......

 

In my opinion, the sharp bends made by tying as in that picture will shorten cable life, as will any small radius bending. Is it a huge issue? I doubt it. But given such a large investment, and given the cost of a failure (reputation, possibly losing a job, etc.) I would do whatever is needed to increase "mean time before failure" rates, especially in cases where I've got good options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

To be clear, I've never had any issues with DJ's. There are knowledgeable folks in every field, and I don't take surveys to determine their %. Oh, and I'm in construction.......

 

Ha! See, goes to show you never know what someone is knowledgeable in. Even something as simple as a cable. Or if they are advanced in X and also work in Y.

 

To be fair, I find myself showing many of my peers (as I'm a little fish) how to over under. Some of these guys have an encyclopedic knowledge of dance music I will never have, but you don't know until you know.

 

In my opinion, the sharp bends made by tying as in that picture will shorten cable life, as will any small radius bending. Is it a huge issue? I doubt it. But given such a large investment, and given the cost of a failure (reputation, possibly losing a job, etc.) I would do whatever is needed to increase "mean time before failure" rates, especially in cases where I've got good options.

 

As I suspected. I guess I might pick up more of that little nylon string. I ditched all my velcro ties after they got coated in crap after a couple gigs. When I was at a 1k seat venue I found they were coiling their cables like I do, surprisingly enough.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I do my mic cables like you've shown in the picture, provided they are 15 feet long or longer. Shorter needs a tie because the bend radius is just too small. One thing I do is I always start the over-under with the female end in my hand, and I wrap the 15-20' cables with a smaller radius to make the bundle fatter. Keeping the female end in my hand means that any failures are going to happen at the male end, so I know where to look, and the failure will be at the mixer where I can wiggle for troubleshooting. I've never had a failure, but most of cables only have 30-40 deployments.

 

But, it's all about the bend radius. If you can keep the bend radius over 1.5" or 6x the cable diameter (whichever is more), I think you'll be within the design expectations of most quality mic cable makers. Check the cable datasheets if you really want to know.

 

You can't do this with cables that have a braided shield, though. They need a much looser bend radius. I think my DMX cables are braided (they feel stiffer), so I use velcro on them. I also velcro my power cables, because they are so stiff and tend to have a memory.

 

If you notice permanent deformation, that section of the cable has been damaged, the only question is..how seriously. Cut it off and solder on a new end.

 

Wes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'll put my flame suit on, but for 15 years we've been wrapping cables (all 25 ft or shorter) by folding them in half until about 2 feet then tying them. It's easy for everyone to do and better than the ol' over the shoulder forearm wrap you see the bar band boys doing. The only downside is they don't "undo" all that easily. But we're only talking about using 6 or so XLRs per so as we have patch snakes for everything else and they loop up on the back of the mixer rack for storage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
But we're only talking about using 6 or so XLRs per so

 

*envy*

 

For some shows, I have XLRs running from 4 vocal mics, 2 congas, 7 drums, 2 from the piano, 3 from the Leslie, 4 to monitors, 3 to FOH, 1 to bass, 1 to acoustic guitar, 2 to electric guitar amps. No wonder it takes so damn long to set up. A no-stress setup takes my band about 2 hours, sometimes I think the power trio guys really have it goin' on.

 

I've thought about building a mini snake for the keys rig, but the location of the stage box changes regularly. A lot of our shows are in locations where the house supplies snake, desk, monitors, FOH, operator, and nothing else.

 

Wes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

*envy*

 

For some shows, I have XLRs running from 4 vocal mics, 2 congas, 7 drums, 2 from the piano, 3 from the Leslie, 4 to monitors, 3 to FOH, 1 to bass, 1 to acoustic guitar, 2 to electric guitar amps. No wonder it takes so damn long to set up. A no-stress setup takes my band about 2 hours, sometimes I think the power trio guys really have it goin' on.

 

I've thought about building a mini snake for the keys rig, but the location of the stage box changes regularly. A lot of our shows are in locations where the house supplies snake, desk, monitors, FOH, operator, and nothing else.

 

Wes

 

It is nice.

 

Drums = 6 channels (balanced 1/4" out of module to XLR). Just some random 10' patch snake I had laying around

Guitar = 4 channels (guitar, vocal mic, monitor (using turnarounds to reverse the end, and a spare for when he brings his acoustic

Vocal = 4 channels (stereo input vocals to a harmonizer, monitor, aux feed send from mixer into a harmonizer)

 

All of these ride in the mixer case. So we're saving 11 cables just doing this. The keyboard player has (keys, monitor, vocal) snake that he takes with him so that's a 3 for 1 so 13 less cables run than we'd otherwise have.

 

All that's left really is bass feed, bass player vocal, and bass monitor. Then we run a couple from the mixer to the FOH stack and a couple of short cables between the subs and tops that I don't really even count. They just get stuffed in a backpack (one backpack per FOH stack)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Guitar = 4 channels (guitar, vocal mic, monitor (using turnarounds to reverse the end, and a spare for when he brings his acoustic

 

Is it a powered speaker? I've been taking advantage of the parallel connectors in that sense and doing away with any adaptors (on the monitor end. Largely because a rodent chewed up some of the sends on my snake (DOH!!!!!)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...