Transformer Isolated Mic Splitter Solutions?

[InACanProductions]

I'm involved in a project at a local community center that is building a recording studio in the basement to teach audio engineering to at risk youth. There is an auditorium upstairs that hosts a variety of live events, and the hope is to be able to record those events in the studio, or use this space (which was an old church with high ceilings) for recording things such as choirs, or drums that want a big room sound, etc. There's been some debate on how to connect these 2 spaces, one option is using Focusrite's Rednet over Cat 5, the other is Transformer Isolated Mic Splits with snakes to FOH and Studio consoles. I have a rack of six of Mark's 4 channel 3 way Transformer Isolated splitters, which work great, but I'm looking for a solution that will give me at least 32x8 sends/returns, and have some kind of multipin connector, so if we are recording but not using the PA we can swap the multipin to the direct out in order to send phantom from the studio console. Jensen transformers would be nice as well. I've researched some offerings from Whirlwind and CBI, and would like some more avenues to explore and insight into splitters that you have experience with that are durable. The stage panel will be installed, but the multipin connectors will be connected and disconnected frequently, and the usage will be in a recording studio situation so fidelity is a high priority. I welcome all suggestions, especially if there is an option that is made for installs rather than the touring market.

 

Some may wonder why I'm not as interested in the Rednet option. The auditorium has a MI grade console with no budget at this time to upgrade to digital. In order to do the splitting needed more interfaces would have to be purchased and connected to do the D/A for the PA, and the break out would be line level, not mic level. The Studio computer would need to be accessible to set the digital preamps of the Rednet interfaces and routing even when an event is not being recorded. Also Dante is a popular protocol today, but that may not be true tomorrow. I feel doing an analog split allows both systems to be upgraded down the road without worrying if the digital protocols will be compatible, and allow both systems to operate totally independently.

 

As always I appreciate any knowledge you share.

[agedhorse]

Transformer isolated splitters are great, owned a couple and just sold the last one as I'm in the process of retiring from this end of the business.

 

If others are going to handle the multipins, you are going to need to do a lot of coaching and I wouldn't recommend ELCO/EDAC as they are kind of brittle if they hit the ground... but each multipin style has their own "soft white underbelly". There CAN be really good deals on pro grade ones as analog systems get retired, but many are also long in the tooth.

 

Regarding Jensen transformers, yest they are good but IMO they are way too hyped as being the only way to go. There are other very good transformers at 1/4 the cost, including some by Rapco and Whirlwind. Beware the marketing machine that is Jensen/Radial, most applications can not tell the difference even in side by side comparisons. I have tested both.

[DanCostello]

Just after reading the headline, I was wondering why you wouldn't do this digitally.

 

If this organization can afford a transformer-isolated split snake and multipin disconnects, they can probably afford to upgrade their FOH desk to one of the new small digital boards w/ a Dante card. In theory, an X32 ought to be able to sit on the network and talk to any other Dante device.

 

Actually, now that I think about it... You might want to look into changing out the FOH console to an X32 (or other Dante-capable desk that can also be remote-conrolled) and just outfitting the studio with a computer and Dante Virtual Soundcard. That'll allow the computer to see and receive audio from the X32, and the X32's remote control capabilities will allow you to control the preamps from the studio. Then you could avoid the Rednet altogether, though you'd still need some kind of interface in the studio.

 

-Dan.

[InACanProductions]

Just after reading the headline, I was wondering why you wouldn't do this digitally.

 

If this organization can afford a transformer-isolated split snake and multipin disconnects, they can probably afford to upgrade their FOH desk to one of the new small digital boards w/ a Dante card. In theory, an X32 ought to be able to sit on the network and talk to any other Dante device.

 

Actually, now that I think about it... You might want to look into changing out the FOH console to an X32 (or other Dante-capable desk that can also be remote-conrolled) and just outfitting the studio with a computer and Dante Virtual Soundcard. That'll allow the computer to see and receive audio from the X32, and the X32's remote control capabilities will allow you to control the preamps from the studio. Then you could avoid the Rednet altogether, though you'd still need some kind of interface in the studio.

 

-Dan.

 

Dan,

 

I appreciate the response, unfortunately there really is no budget for upgrading the FOH console. The money for the studio was awarded through a grant and funds can't be used for any other projects. Construction has gone over budget and cut into the studio equipment budget a bit. Transformer isolated splits and copper snakes with Multipin disconnects will be somewhat pricey, but it's really the right way to do it.

 

The studio will be outfitted with high end preamps. Even if we could change the FOH console, I would prefer to bring the signal from the mics to the high end preamps rather than use the X32 preamps and A/D into Pro Tools via Dante.

[agedhorse]

Ed, you might find that "high end" preamps are nothing more than standard preamps of today (or WORSE), made to sound lovingly more beautiful by a marketing department much more skilled than the engineering department. How is this going to help at risk youth any better?

 

I suggest that maybe re-evaluating priorities and realities might be a better use of such funds.IMO, high end is a waste of resources when the END RESULT is considered rather than some kind of ego and status symbol. The last thing at risk youth need to be confronted with are yet more status symbols... they will be fighting this problem their entire lives.

 

Actually, showing them how to fit within a budget, and not going over budget, and making responsible real world choices might be of greater benefit to ad risk youth than a high end preamp, or anything high end, because that's what they are going to be confronted with for the rest of their lives... not the 1% choices.

 

[DanCostello]

 

Dan,

 

I appreciate the response, unfortunately there really is no budget for upgrading the FOH console. The money for the studio was awarded through a grant and funds can't be used for any other projects. Construction has gone over budget and cut into the studio equipment budget a bit. Transformer isolated splits and copper snakes with Multipin disconnects will be somewhat pricey, but it's really the right way to do it.

 

What I was getting at, but may not have made all that clear, was that doing it digitally will likely cost less than getting an analog split snake. You get the functionality of your split snake with the added bonus of a FOH upgrade.

 

The studio will be outfitted with high end preamps. Even if we could change the FOH console, I would prefer to bring the signal from the mics to the high end preamps rather than use the X32 preamps and A/D into Pro Tools via Dante.

 

Doing it digitally will definitely cost less than an analog split snake + fancy mic preamps.

 

Just out of curiosity, what's your idea of "high-end preamps" and how many channels were you looking at?

 

-Dan.

[TimmyP]

There should be* no need for a transformer split - lots of folks use hardwire splits. Two consoles so connected are sufficiently isolated internally that phantom can be fed from either console or both.

 

*Unless there are issues with the power grounds being at different potentials on stage and in the studio.

 

If the above is the case, but you have the studio split feeding a digital stagebox that connects to the studio console via CAT5, there should be no problem. I hate to say it, but the new Presonus setup looks really good. You can get the Presonus stage box, mix surface, and an EWI hardwire splitter for under $4000 shipped. See

[agedhorse]

If you need to connect two consoles without the worry of added noise from a VARIETY of causes, transformer isolation is by far the best way to go. Will a parallel connection work? Sometimes, maybe much of the time, but certainly not all of the time. That's why most real pros (still working in the analog world) use transformer isolated splitters. The higher dollar the gig, the more likely you will find transformers.