Members jesseweiss Posted July 10, 2015 Members Share Posted July 10, 2015 I run sound for my band (4 pc rock cover band) and I'm thinking of buying new speakers. The guys are cheap and would never spend for PRX's or K12's which are the only recommendations I get on another forum, so I'm looking for something one step down. Right now we have 2 older Behringer 212A's (used to be our mains) that are now monitors, 2 Behringers 312d's that we use as mains, and then I recently got 2 TS112A's which we also use for monitors (although maybe these should be the mains). We play about once a month, smaller venues, but have a few outside gigs as well. I was thinking of getting something in the 500 range to upgrade, since I have about 300 in gift card money to put towards the purchase. The DBR's, Mackie SRM550's, and EV ZLX are on my radar. Can you give me some thoughts? I listened to the EV's next to JBL EON612 or 615's and definitely thought the EV's had a much clearer sound. We're looking for better sound quality, more low end, and more headroom. I've also thought about just getting a sub. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RiddimRider Posted July 10, 2015 Members Share Posted July 10, 2015 The Yammie's have a great warranty, 7 years. Something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bufalo Posted July 10, 2015 Members Share Posted July 10, 2015 I chose the the DBR12's over the ZLX's when I had the choice. Mine are also used as main speakers for a 4-piece rock band with one of the DXS12 subwoofers. I have not listened to any of the price-comparable Mackie's to offer insight. The Yamaha's, in an imperfect environment, just had more oomph and less "honk" than the EV's. Smaller/lighter too. All were a noticeable step up from the TS112a's that were next to them on the shelves. I played through all kinds of different modes on all the speakers. I have had good luck in the past with Yamaha, and so there was some admitted brand prejudice at work, but I have not been disappointed with my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 10, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks for the responses. Bufalo, Having heard the EV's, that helps. The Mackie's have a lot more power than the others, so I was thinking they would probably give more volume. But they certainly don't have a 7 year warranty which really is a big deal. Between the Behringers and Altos I have we've had to get stuff fixed, and Mackie has a mixed reputation. Hmmmmm Bufalo, without a sub do I go for the DBR15's? It's $100 for each, which is certainly cheaper than getting a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 10, 2015 Members Share Posted July 10, 2015 4 pc rock band - get subs and the 12" mains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bufalo Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 I can't reliably comment on the 15" versions of either speaker. I knew I was using these with a sub, so I never listened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 I tend to think that the models you're referring to are only a small step up from what you've got now... I'd probably keep saving. you don't really specify what problem you're trying to fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 I am on a similar path, except I chose Yorkville NX55Ps. Running 12" speakers without a sub means your bass player has to have a good bass amp, and your drummer needs a good kick drum that projects well. And he can't hit it with his purse. 15" speakers are slightly better in this regard. Slightly. You really do need a sub for a rock band IMO. This hasn't been as big a problem as one might think. Generally, I run the 12" speakers as FOH in small venues, where the kick and bass carry okay from the stage. Larger venues tend to have a built-in PA, so no problem there. Weddings and stuff, I like to bring a sound man anyhow. I negotiate the rental of FOH sound as part of his fee. My plan, money-gods willing, is to buy a single Yorkville LS801 to pair with my NX55Ps as soon as I'm done paying off my new piano. That will let me bring the boom way better than a pair of 15" tops would. Eventually, I'll add another LS801P and some Unity (or something) tops. That will put me in a situation where I can cover a large area with good SPLs. That point is probably 3 years down the road. Again, money-gods willing. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 I tend to think that the models you're referring to are only a small step up from what you've got now... I'd probably keep saving. you don't really specify what problem you're trying to fix? Well I did say I was looking for more clarity, low end, and headroom. There isn't a problem, as much as wanting to improve the quality of the sound. The other band members are fine leaving things as they are, but I think improving our sound will only help get more gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 I am on a similar path, except I chose Yorkville NX55Ps. Running 12" speakers without a sub means your bass player has to have a good bass amp, and your drummer needs a good kick drum that projects well. And he can't hit it with his purse. 15" speakers are slightly better in this regard. Slightly. You really do need a sub for a rock band IMO. This hasn't been as big a problem as one might think. Generally, I run the 12" speakers as FOH in small venues, where the kick and bass carry okay from the stage. Larger venues tend to have a built-in PA, so no problem there. Weddings and stuff, I like to bring a sound man anyhow. I negotiate the rental of FOH sound as part of his fee. My plan, money-gods willing, is to buy a single Yorkville LS801 to pair with my NX55Ps as soon as I'm done paying off my new piano. That will let me bring the boom way better than a pair of 15" tops would. Eventually, I'll add another LS801P and some Unity (or something) tops. That will put me in a situation where I can cover a large area with good SPLs. That point is probably 3 years down the road. Again, money-gods willing. Wes Wes, Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm the drummer in the band and projection from the drums is never a problem. I hit plenty hard enough. The bassist's amp is good enough. We've never had a complaint about sound quality. I should also mention that we've been playing together for over 25 years and have played a wide variety of venues (including "name" clubs in NYC back in the 80's and 90's). We generally run 12" FOH as well and only run a little of the drums through the mix (if at all) with light guitars and bass. At times we just run vocals. Several places we play have a sound system so it isn't an issue. I also run sound for the school where I teach so I do know something about running sound. The impetus for the possible upgrade now is that I have $300 in gift card money and so far I can't figure out what to use it for. I thought about getting a new mixer (Yamaha w/ 1 knob compression) to get a few more XLR inputs and compression. In the end I think better speakers will probably do more to improve the sound quality. I know the argument is always save up for K12 or PRX712's and a sub, but we all have jobs, wives, kids (I have one in college) so the difference does mean something. I could look for used DXR's if the 7 year warranty transfers with sale. On a side note, I wanted to thank everyone for their honest opinion. I've been on ProSound forum and there are helpful people, but there's a tendency to be condescending to anyone not spending $3000 or more on a setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 Have you looked at used gear ? Your money might buy more than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 What would you recommend used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 You've already had some good suggestions but you might find some PRX or K12's used within your budget. I don't believe a single speaker or amp I own was purchased new (that I can recall) Shopping used brought me gear that would have been impossible (for me) to purchase. Agedhorse frequently has used top-notch gear stacked about, PM him and see if he has something to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 11, 2015 Members Share Posted July 11, 2015 I'm a big fan of Yamaha powered speakers and think they are a great deal for the money. I have a DBR12 that I recently bought that I'm using for a monitor at a weekly gig. I run my bass pretty loud through it since I don't have a bass rig at the gig. Sounds great. I have also used it as a bass amp on a couple of gigs with a classic rock band and it got pretty loud without farting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 12, 2015 Members Share Posted July 12, 2015 The reason why some folks recommend a more substantial upgrade is that it's usually less expensive in the long run. Going to the PRX or K12 is a much bigger difference than the DBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 12, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2015 The reason why some folks recommend a more substantial upgrade is that it's usually less expensive in the long run. Going to the PRX or K12 is a much bigger difference than the DBR. I've used PRX's at shows and have listened to the K12's and they are super nice. The problem, as always, if budget. They are almost double the cost, which is a lot for me (I'm a teacher, 1 income, kids, house, etc...). Would you recommend trying to find used PRX or K12's instead of the DBR? I lose the warranty, which concerns me when buying used. I could buy from GC and buy their warranty, but that adds to the cost as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 12, 2015 Members Share Posted July 12, 2015 I've used PRX's at shows and have listened to the K12's and they are super nice. The problem, as always, if budget. They are almost double the cost, which is a lot for me (I'm a teacher, 1 income, kids, house, etc...). Would you recommend trying to find used PRX or K12's instead of the DBR? I lose the warranty, which concerns me when buying used. I could buy from GC and buy their warranty, but that adds to the cost as well. Having owned the PRX512m previously I know that the DBR handles low frequencies better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 12, 2015 Members Share Posted July 12, 2015 I've used PRX's at shows and have listened to the K12's and they are super nice. The problem, as always, if budget. They are almost double the cost, which is a lot for me (I'm a teacher, 1 income, kids, house, etc...). Would you recommend trying to find used PRX or K12's instead of the DBR? I lose the warranty, which concerns me when buying used. I could buy from GC and buy their warranty, but that adds to the cost as well. All used gear from GC comes with a free 30 day return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 12, 2015 Members Share Posted July 12, 2015 FWIW, the PRX712 can be had for $650 all day. To be fair though the DBR 12 streets for $400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 13, 2015 Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 ON GC's used site, I spotted several RCF 312A's for around $500/pair. If you must stick to your budget, these would be far better than your Behringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 13, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've heard great things about the RCFs so I'll take a look. I figured they were a sound quality upgrade even if not more headroom. Was at an open jam last night with k12s and they do sound nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted July 13, 2015 Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 If I'm following your comments correctly, your budget is half-way to a pair of used K12's. I would save my pennies until I had enough and get the QSC's. There is a good reason you've seen so many suggestions for these speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 13, 2015 Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm using a pile of ELX 112p, they're cheap and I prefer them over the ZLX. I don't have much else in the way of powered boxes to compare them to though. I wanted to give the PRX712 a go but never got the chance. One of the sound co I contract with bought a pile of turbosound iQ12. I haven't heard them yet but the reviews are great so far. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/iQ12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hfc7713 Posted July 13, 2015 Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 I own/have owned JBL PRX, JBL EON, Yamaha DXR and DSR, QSC K series and EV ELX12.I can be realistic and impartial about pretty much everything mentioned here. Although I have not heard the Yamaha DBR's yet, I can say with some confidence that if they are even close to the quality and clear SPL levels of the DXR and DSR, then they are probably going to be your best bang. I loved my PRX612's (predecessor to the PRX712's) - compact, lightweight and excellent sound quality but my DSR's and even my DXR's can outrun them. The newer DBR's are one level down from the DXR's but are getting great reviews.My EV ELX112 are also a good value for money. Mine are used as monitors but could make decent FOH at low levels. The finish on these is poor so make sure to get good covers.My QSC K10's are also nice quality, lightweight with flexible DSP but QSC K series along with most QSC gear can be a bit overpriced compared to other brands. The K10's and K12's run out of gas when pushed but sound nice and transparent at lower SPL's. I have been a little disappointed with my K10's for what I paid for them but when I use mine as monitors, they do a great job.I do not own any Alto but I have heard them and for the money, they are not bad - you could try them as FOH. Years ago, bands used PA as vocal only systems much more than today and they did great that way as long as expectations were not too high. Your band probably doesn't 'need' subs but consider they not only offer much louder and lower bass frequencies but when deployed correctly, allow the mids to breathe and not work as hard which helps avoid distortion or clipping. This means that with subs, a nice 10' or 12' will do the job just fine. If not using subs, you might consider using 15"s.. YMMV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jesseweiss Posted July 13, 2015 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2015 Great info, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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