Members Stingray5 Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 I know some of you have dealt with about everything that could possibly go wrong, so what do you do when a singer wants there monitor so loud that I can't run the mains loud enough with out running everyone out of the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 I had one event like this and promptly purchased a used Shure PSM200 system, this answer assumes your problem performer can be convinced to use IEM's. In my case, I was dealing with a seasoned pro with probably 20+ years of touring experience so he wanted what he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Shake your head is all you can do. They will be deaf shortly if not already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 How much of this is being driven by stage volume of amps and such ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Assuming he is reasonably stationary, is it possible to change the monitor speakers for something with a narrower throw? Get it aimed right at his head, same SPL at his eardrum but maybe less power overall. What is behind the singer? A hard, bouncy wall or a heavy theatre drape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 What is behind the singer? Based on what he said so far, I would guess a really loud drummer. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stingray5 Posted June 19, 2015 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's the ones that have major hearing loss that give me the biggest problem ,although some bands with loud back line do but I can ask them to turn down and yes it's normally the Drummer or guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 As much as you would like to find an answer to every dilemna, there are situations (perhaps yours) where what the band wants is clearly detrimental to the event and you will never convince them of such. IEM's is one answer but that comes at a significant cost that may not show a ROI. Many years ago I made the deliberate decision to pass on any jobs with such obvious dynamics. Every once in a while I still encounter this but it is rare anymore. One thing I did at an event when a singer wanted an outrageous monitor level, I added some compression to his monitor inducing feedback while explaining "thats all I can give you" . Amazingly enough, he learned to adapt to the volume he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Wow, Tomm Williams, you are my kind of genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 19, 2015 Members Share Posted June 19, 2015 Tell them about in ear monitors. Tell them you can not give them anymore monitor. They turn down orthey dont here themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted June 20, 2015 Members Share Posted June 20, 2015 I have been running in to this more often, and not just singers. It seems like it's a growing trend to play loud on stage an demand loud monitors. It blows my mind too what people want in their monitors. Why would a drummer need the snare in their monitor? It's right in front of them and probably the loudest thing on stage. It becomes such a mess on stage with 6 mixes of loud monitors. The average SPL I have been measuring side stage is around 116, and up to 120 at times. I don't see how they do it and still hear. The worst part is when they give me the skunk eye if the smallest bit of feedback rears its ugly head. I mean come on, at that volume what do they expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 20, 2015 Members Share Posted June 20, 2015 I have been running in to this more often' date=' and not just singers. It seems like it's a growing trend to play loud on stage an demand loud monitors. It blows my mind too what people want in their monitors. Why would a drummer need the snare in their monitor? It's right in front of them and probably the loudest thing on stage. It becomes such a mess on stage with 6 mixes of loud monitors. The average SPL I have been measuring side stage is around 116, and up to 120 at times. I don't see how they do it and still hear. The worst part is when they give me the skunk eye if the smallest bit of feedback rears its ugly head. I mean come on, at that volume what do they expect?[/quote'] Feel your pain...............I worked with the drummer for one of the biggest pop vocalist's of the 70's and he wanted his own kick drum in his monitor. I've never seen that before or since. During sound check I shut the mains completely off and the monitors alone were filling the room, that's when we had to have a talk. Due to the fact this was a group of seasoned pro's, they immediately understood the issue and re-evaluated what they really needed. This kind of cooperation isn't as common as one would hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 20, 2015 Members Share Posted June 20, 2015 Kick & snare in the drummer's monitor is pretty standard. It's the start of the volume war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted June 20, 2015 Members Share Posted June 20, 2015 I work occasionally with a drummer who really tries to keep it down, but for some reason just can't. When I have him in a small room (100 cap), I give him a drum fill with a s--- ton of kick and snare, as close to his head as I can muster. That works wonders for this guy. If he gets too loud, it hurts him before the rest of us. Seriously, though, some guys just need to "feel it", and if you don't give it to them in foldback, they'll beat it out of their drums. I do the same thing for a guitarist that points his amp at his knees and plays too loud as a result. I run his amp mic into his wedge. In bigger venues, it's less of a problem because he'll put his amp 6' away from himself. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 20, 2015 Members Share Posted June 20, 2015 Kick & snare in the drummer's monitor is pretty standard. It's the start of the volume war! Thinking more about that paticular event, there were two drummers playing simultaneously throughout the event (quite well I might add) and their kits were probably no more than 5' from each other. That may have contributed to why he wanted his own kick in the monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papejazzer Posted June 20, 2015 Members Share Posted June 20, 2015 LoL! Quote of the year award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 21, 2015 Members Share Posted June 21, 2015 On a a stage at an outdoor fest where the musicians are far apart from each other I can understand monitor mixes. In a club on a small stage is crazy. There are bands that tour and play out on big outdoor fest stages and also have clubs to play throughout the tour. It is almost like they forget what its like to play on a small stage where they can actually hear each other without a crap load of separate monitor mixes. Local bands that want multiple monitor mixes in clubs is crazy. I have found some country bands to be insane on monitors in clubs and more picky then any rock hair band. In ears is the way to go if a band wants a multiple monitor mix in smaller clubs. Back in the old days there were no monitors. I have many an old musician tell me they liked working off the mains with no monitors because the band worked off the mains and played off the vocals out the mains and bringing things down when the singer/s were singing. In big rooms a drummer can tend to "over hit" the kick drum without hearing the sub bass kick off the FOH. This is when a kick monitor comes in handy for them. Monitors are a pain in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted June 21, 2015 Members Share Posted June 21, 2015 Kick & snare in the drummer's monitor is pretty standard. It's the start of the volume war! Yes standard and growing these days. We do mostly outdoor festivals and such. Some large stages, some small. It doesn't seem to matter to the musicians how close they are to each other, they all pretty much insist on their own individual mixes that end up loaded down with a whole lot of channels. In fact, lately drummers have wanted the whole kit in their monitors, even overheads if they are in place. You just have to wonder where it stops. I hate to be the jerk that is always telling someone no, or turn down, or whatever but it is truly getting ridiculous. You know it's bad when the drummer's wedge is basically one side of a small club PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 21, 2015 Members Share Posted June 21, 2015 One if the drawbacks of technology allowing many monitor mixes so cheaply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted June 21, 2015 Members Share Posted June 21, 2015 That's for sure. Not to mention people are generally more spoiled these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted June 21, 2015 Members Share Posted June 21, 2015 I did a show 2 weeks ago where the band brought a pair of 2-15 , 2 - 8 midrange and a pair of smallish horns boxes as monitors. I put 1 for the drummer and the other in front leaning up on the subs. Also an old set of 1-15 and horn boxes of mine with 400 to each. Each 2-15 box had 900 watts to it and I ended up putting so much of everything in them that I had nothing but vocals in the mains with just a little bass drum, snare. Outside no less. Went up on stage and the noise pegged my radioshack spl meter set at 120db c weighted slow response. I had the band ask for a little more monitor. I won't be doing that again. You can't teach common sense! Dookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cxhawk Posted June 22, 2015 Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 Look at a typical small stage, I'm sure that the number of monitors on stage are more than the PA. We are putting more wattage on stage for 5 people than PA for 400 people. Something is wrong. It's all about speaker position, the floor is just not a great positions for monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted June 22, 2015 Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 Besides in ears, is there really a better option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 22, 2015 Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 Look at a typical small stage, I'm sure that the number of monitors on stage are more than the PA. We are putting more wattage on stage for 5 people than PA for 400 people. Something is wrong. It's all about speaker position, the floor is just not a great positions for monitors. Why is something wrong? Why is the floor not a great position for monitors? Different markets have completely different needs and expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 22, 2015 Members Share Posted June 22, 2015 Look at a typical small stage, I'm sure that the number of monitors on stage are more than the PA. We are putting more wattage on stage for 5 people than PA for 400 people. Something is wrong. It's all about speaker position, the floor is just not a great positions for monitors. I can only speak for how I do things but that's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. Monitors and mains/subs serve completely different purposes and you need as many as you need..............whatever that number turns out being. The power I'm running to wedges is not a lot, maybe 300 watts but certainly nowhere near max output. The power applied to the main system far exceeds that. The problem is it just doesn't take a lot of stage volume before things get ugly. Floor positioned wedges work great, fairly clean sight lines and easy to properly position in regards to microphone rejection patterns . Other than IEM's. I have not seen a better way to do it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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