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Mixing on a Keyboard Amp?


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Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post in Harmony Central. It's so nice to see so many passionate musician/engineer on the forum!'

 

O.K Here goes my first question:

 

I recently got a Behringer Ultratone K900fx keyboard amp. It was intended to be a sort of mini PA speaker for our band practice. We have 2 vocals, 1 electronic drum, 2 acoustic guitars and 1 electric guitar all go into a Mackie Mix8 mixer and output into one of k900fx's input. The mix seem crowed, everything is mushed together and fight for space. We can hardly hear our own playing. I only have one speaker so I can't really pan anything. Is this a EQ problem? Or it is just too much instruments for a single 90 watt 15 inch speaker to handle? This is only for band practice so we don't want to drop too much cash for a PA system. The goal is at least everyone can hear their own instrument/voice from a single speaker. Is it possible?

 

Thank you very much !

 

 

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Drop your rehearsal volume A LOT! and you will save your hearing, MONEY and be able to function with the keyboard amp. Now, if any of your musicians can't bring themselves to drop their volume enough, maybe they should be the ones to spend the thousands for a new practice PA. A few hundred dollars won't be enough.

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Thank you all for your comment! I will try to balance the band with volume fader on the mixer and try to maintain a reasonable master volume.

I did a experiment with just me playing electric guitar and the CD (song we're trying to perform). Turned down my guitar's volume so it is almost the same as CD's guitar volume. Then bang! I found although my guitar sounds smaller, but it sits well with the rest of the music. Overall volume is smaller, but clearer. Is this how I should approach my mix for my band? Get a good balance of each instrument and EQ them. Once the balance is good, i can just control the master fader to a reasonable volume? One thing I forgot to mention is that we have a keyboard player, who plays a real piano in the room; whose volume i don't have control of. Maybe that's the issue?

 

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You are trying to produce drum sounds with a 90W amp. You're about 1,000W short of what is needed to get a good drum kit sound. Now you're adding vocals and guitars.

 

The problem is not the piano player. He can just play quieter.

 

I am very familiar with what you are doing, I tried and failed with a Crate KX80 many years ago, before I knew any better. You either need to either spend a lot of money, or get real quiet. A sensible budget for your amplification, IMO, is either

 

1 - put only the drums in the monitor and sing without microphones

2 - put only the vocals in the monitor and get your drummer to play QUIETLY with a real drum kit

 

Wes

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I have one of those... i used it for my keyboards when starting out. For starting on a budget, I'd recommend like a Behringer 550W B212D powered speaker for a little over $200, or even a B215D.

Then either buy another one of those or a powered sub, if you are doing that kind of music. You may find a used one on ebay for less. If you are going to play larger venues, then by all means you will need 2 1000W speakers and prob a sub.

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Generally an acoustic piano isn't a problem. (Especially if the lids are closed.) Wesg lives in a world I didn't grow up in. My first PA was 35 watts. My busiest band's PA was 100 watts. I didn't get any subs until about 10 years ago. My smallest PA is 3000 watts and no louder than my largest tri-amp system that was 1200 watts. (It is a whole lot easier to haul around. 150 pounds vs 500 pounds.)

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this is only for band practice , so 1000 watt speakers will be overkill. Can I have everyone heard themselves by having a amp per each instrument at low volume positioned close to them. Because I have a spare 15 watt guitar practice amp Roland cube , and one genelec 1029 near field monitor . Although is not much, but it is better to just use one keyboard amp?

 

 

 

i herad people send monitor mix (mix of all instrument from a single amp) to stage wedges for each person. They can achieve that because of using higher wattage amps?

 

 

 

thank you all for your help,

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There is a LOT of energy in a kick drum. Low frequencies need way more energy for the same sound pressure level.

 

I occasionally run a jam with vocals, E-drums, keys, acoustic guitar, and bass in 1100W worth of PA (2 12" powered speakers) in a SMALL room (200 sq ft). I still have to keep a close eye on the limit lights. This is not a loud room, either - you can speak in a normal voice to the other musicians.

 

WynnD, did your 100 Watt PA band have electronic drums? Yeah, I didn't think so.

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It won't be great, but it should be miles ahead of your last rehearsal. Keeping the drums out of the mix will make it so that the other stuff will stay functional when the peaks of the drum hits are overwhelming the keyboard amp.

 

Note that you should still try to keep the limiter light on the keyboard amp from coming on too often. No sense in ruining good equipment if you don't have to. That speaker is surely not built for thumping duty. Basically, get the vocals loud enough through your monitor, balance the other instruments to the vocals, and then add the drums. If the limiter is twinkling, turn the drums down until it just flickers occasionally.

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Another situation come up!

 

My local guitar center is selling 2 kustom PA50 (50 watt each) speakers at around $70 each. Would it better to have stereo PA speakers with mixer (everything go through the desk, no monitor; all sound coming from 2 PA speakers) or each player has his/her own amp/monitor ( keyboard amp for drum, guitar amp for guitars and perhaps a single PA50 for vocal)? I was planning to sell the keyboard amp to get 2 kustom PA50 and a mixer. The way l look at it I might get a better balance with mixer/PA route; but I am afraid that PA50s doesn't have enough power for cram everything in like Wesg mentioned.

 

Thanks for the help!

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No. Bing had regular drums and they weren't mic'd. Bing also wasn't a loud drummer. With that band I was playing keys 1/2 time and bass the other half. And from the last note to the last item loaded up in the car was 15 minutes! Can't do that any more.

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The modern Kustom is indeed crap. a single powered speaker of just about any major brand used or otherwise would be better. The 10" Eons come to mind. For unpowered speakers, EV's SX-100 (or 200 or 300) Have been around forever, work quite well and can probably be found cheap.

 

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Really?today I tested pa50 with Jamup pro (guitar sim) It sounds awesome , clean and powerful. I was shocked how clear pa50 was compare to my much bigger behringer ultratone k900fx....it just sound muddier than pa50. Maybe because I didn't use a DI box with k900fx ( balanced input)?

 

 

 

Anyways, would people prefer 2 PA speakers with everything through mixer (E-drum, 2 guitars and 2 vocals) or separate amps/speakers for each individual player? Plz, I really want to know

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DI has nothing to do with the muddy tone.

 

Something to keep in mind, a 40W guitar amp often doesn't need to be amplified alongside at 1,000W PA that runs kick drum, vocals, and keyboards. You can't compare apples and oranges.

 

Wes

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Thx Wes! I tried it out couple days ago with guitar amp for guitar, keyboard amp for drum and PA50 for 2 vocals and acoustic guitar. As long each speaker/amp is pointing at each player...we are fine. I struggled to hear my overdriven guitar at first, but all was good once I moved the amp closer to me and dialed down the overdrive . I am wondering could I be benefiti if I get a mixer?

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