Buying used wireless mics?

[wesg]

Hey, Guys;

 

The singer in my band is thinking about going wireless, but is getting a bit of sticker shock when looking at new rigs.

 

Any advice for buying used? I know there are theoretical spectrum issues....how real do these tend to be? Is it easy to figure out which mic/receiver pairs are going to be problematic?

 

Shure systems seem to be the most popular "pro" mics on the used market here. He's currently singing into an SM58, but also sounds good through an e945. Can I safely assume that any Shure system that comes bundled with an SM58 or Beta 58A is going to not suck?

 

I see SLX24 and PGX4 systems out. Some other systems that are paired with PG58s which I'm ignoring. Are there any quick-and-dirty rules with respect to models on this stuff? Is it all old-school radios, or does this level of gear get digitially encoded now?

 

Is it safe to assume that no good system will have a way to reuse exising mics? (SM58, e945, OM3 available).

 

Thanks,

Wes

[WynnD]

I've got three Shure wireless systems. First was a handheld 58 type. (2 AA batteries, I use NiMH rechargables.) Next one was a headset PGX4 digital system. I'm a keyboard player and not having a boom stand helps with my instrument sight lines. They are all directional, fairly good at keeping feedback at bay. (And all are UHF frequencies.) One thing to watch out for is the actual operational frequencies. Some of the older units aren't legal anymore in the USA. And the FCC is talking about taking some more frequencies for cell phone use. Gotta make sure you aren't purchasing in any of those areas. (The fines for using them illegally are huge!!!) If you're not here, check your local laws and see what is legal there.

[wesg]

The regulatory stuff is a pain to wade through, for sure. I've written a letter to Industry Canada asking for assistance in understanding the spectrum allocation, but am not holding my breath waiting for an answer.

 

Out of idle curiosity, does your PGX4 transmitter have an Industry Canada number on it, or just FCC? It's illegal up here to use a transmitter with no IC number on it, so buying from the US might not be an option either.

 

Wes

[Audiopyle Sound]

As with wired mics, be aware that there are a lot of Chinese counterfeit wireless systems out there in circulation.

[agedhorse]

No, just because a system is bundled with an sm58 head does not mean it's automatically good.

[wesg]

Heh. Well there goes an easy selection criteria. Oh well.

 

Got the best e-mail back from Industry Canada w.r.t. spectrum today. "Please consult your local IC office. Here's a list of IC offices that shows none are remotely close to being local to you".

 

Their website is fantastic for locating licensed transmitters, but it really sucks for trying to figure out something like "can I use a 626Mhz Wireless Mic without breaking the law". I may have to actually read the legislation. I checked with a local sound company today, they told me, essentially, that they have no idea what the law is, but nobody cares anyhow. I believe half of that statement. Years ago, there used to be an Industry Canada office in my office building, the guy that worked across the hall from me was part of the spectrum surveillance group. Every now and then he would hop in his van and go track down pirate radio stations or something. He never /would/ tell me *exactly* what he did with all that cool-looking hardware.

 

Wes

[WynnD]

Canada might be a little easier to find legal frequencies. The bands are crowded in the US and in major cities. Just think of Broadway in New York City. There must be 40+ theaters with probably nearly 40 wireless mics in each of them. (At least.) That's nearly 2000 separate transmitter in a few blocks. (And the FCC wants to take some more of those frequencies and auction them off to some corporations.)

[dboomer]

You do realize that you are the direct recipient of the money that comes from that sale? You have likely been collecting $300-800 per year for the last couple of years.

[Dogoth]

Along with making sure the frequencies aren't illegal or in a band that is heavily trafficked in your performance area, you should keep to the higher end units (I'm not a big fan of the Shure PG series - that's about the cheapest I'd go). Find out what they cost new and don't buy anything that sold for under say $500 list. Almost everything in your price range will NOT be digital transmission but rather uses a compander (compression & re-expansion) circuit for noise reduction.

 

There is "sort of" an industry standard capsule thread/connection design so most decent units will accept most manufacturers capsules (This is not an absolute standard so check with the mfg before you buy).

 

Also remember that it's the TRANSMITTER that gets the most abuse (they get dropped and beat on regularly :-). Make sure it's in good shape with all of the switches, capsule & battery connections in good shape. Try and buy from someone who will give you a short warrantee so you can shake the transmitter down (I literally mean SHAKE it) for a few hours.

 

That's my .02 worth

[Opus Antics]

I second the advice to stay away from the PG series. Those are more suited for business presentations than live music. The quality and dependability is lacking for a band in a live setting.

 

For the budget conscious, start with the SLX and go from there. I have two SLX wireless beta 58s. And yeah I had to wait and buy them one at a time to be able to afford them. But it's worth it in the end. I've gotten very good sound out of them.

[Opus Antics]

As to your specific questions, here is my experience, though I am sure most in this forum will have deeper knowledge than me. Disclaimer, I'm not a sound expert by any stretch, I'm just a guy who has used wireless mics:

 

Hey, Guys;

 

The singer in my band is thinking about going wireless, but is getting a bit of sticker shock when looking at new rigs.

 

Yep.

 

Any advice for buying used? I know there are theoretical spectrum issues....how real do these tend to be? Is it easy to figure out which mic/receiver pairs are going to be problematic?

 

I think as long as you stick to a relatively newer mic you'll probably be ok.

 

Shure systems seem to be the most popular "pro" mics on the used market here. He's currently singing into an SM58, but also sounds good through an e945. Can I safely assume that any Shure system that comes bundled with an SM58 or Beta 58A is going to not suck?

 

Well, I would stay away from the PG series. Your sound quality will have a dropoff. I started with a PG series mic and the sound was just so-so. And after a while the mic died anyway, which in hindsight did me a favor because it forced me to move on to better mics.

 

I see SLX24 and PGX4 systems out. Some other systems that are paired with PG58s which I'm ignoring. Are there any quick-and-dirty rules with respect to models on this stuff? Is it all old-school radios, or does this level of gear get digitially encoded now?

 

PG series is fine for things like wireless guitar and bass setups. But for the mics you want at least an SLX.

 

Is it safe to assume that no good system will have a way to reuse exising mics? (SM58, e945, OM3 available).

 

Each system seems to have a differently designed transmitter. So that's the assumption I would use.

 

When I've bought mine, I've usually looked to buy from a retail store with an online presence on ebay. Less likely to get a counterfeit. Also more likely to have a good return policy if you have a problem. Sometimes you can find one who will sell it for less than normal.

 

 

 

[wesg]

Thanks, Guys. Some really good information in there.

 

I was in Long & McQuade in Ottawa picking up a new stage piano on Saturday, and spotted the Line 6 XD-V35 for only $379.

 

Any experience with these? The pleasantly-low price makes me immediately suspicious. I see they are 2.4GHz, but I'm willing to overlook that as a potential problem area. One advantage we have is that the max range is likely to be well under 30'. Anybody know how close to the WiFi channels the Line 6 mic channels are? Do they sound any good?

 

They can be rented about 50 miles from where the singer works, he is thinking about trying one for a week or two to see what he thinks.

 

Wes

[RoadRanger]

I was in Long & McQuade in Ottawa picking up a new stage piano on Saturday, and spotted the Line 6 XD-V35 for only $379. Any experience with these? The pleasantly-low price makes me immediately suspicious. I see they are 2.4GHz, but I'm willing to overlook that as a potential problem area. One advantage we have is that the max range is likely to be well under 30'. Anybody know how close to the WiFi channels the Line 6 mic channels are?

Not "close", "On" . Pretty much forgetaboutit as far as running anything on 2.4GHz WiFi in the same room. OTOH they sound pretty awesome IME. And your WiFi should be on 5GHz anyways if you want it to work OK for remote control of your mixer.

[wesg]

"On", really? Did they at least use a different channel width so that the peaks don't line up?

 

I've been involved with large-scale WiFi deployments, I sure would not run anything in the 2.4GHz band that was mission critical. I might use it for a bar band, though. The consequences of failure are smaller, and I could train the singer with a disaster recovery plan ahead of time.

 

Wes

[dboomer]

Hey Wes

 

The first thing you want to do is to switch modes. You don't want to run it the way it defaults unless you have equipment to monitor what's going on in the rest of the 2.4G band. Switching over to RF1 mode it just won't care what else is running in the 2.4G band as long as you don't set your receiver very close to a WAP. I only use RF1 mode for everything I do with those mics.

 

• Turn the transmitter off.
• Press and hold the channel SELECT button.
  
• While holding the SELECT button, press and hold the power ON button.
  
• The blue LED over channel 1 will flash three times to indicate that the transmitter is in the RF1 mode.
  
• To revert to the RF2 mode, repeat the above steps; the blue LED over channel 2 will flash three times when the transmitter is in this mode.
  

​If you really want to understand the channel assignment check out this video (but in RF1 mode you just don't need to know anything.

 

[Craig Vecchione]

Thanks, Guys. Some really good information in there.

 

I was in Long & McQuade in Ottawa picking up a new stage piano on Saturday, and spotted the Line 6 XD-V35 for only $379.

 

Any experience with these? The pleasantly-low price makes me immediately suspicious. I see they are 2.4GHz, but I'm willing to overlook that as a potential problem area. One advantage we have is that the max range is likely to be well under 30'. Anybody know how close to the WiFi channels the Line 6 mic channels are? Do they sound any good?

 

They can be rented about 50 miles from where the singer works, he is thinking about trying one for a week or two to see what he thinks.

 

Wes

 

I'm not even remotely close to "touring pro", so my context may be different than some, but I've never been even remotely disappointed with any Line 6 wireless mic or instrument system. They just work.

[wesg]

Thanks, Don, that was an extremely informative video, and gives me confidence that I can get at least three nines of uptime out of a system like with a typical bar band.

 

RF2 mode is also kind of interesting, I might select that if I was racking up something like a Behringer X-Air mixer and a Line 6 receiver in adjacent racks. But that is not a situation I would willingly put myself in.

 

Wes

[RoadRanger]

Mine's an older one with just RF1 mode (but up-gradable via firmware) but it's my recollection that RF1 is more robust - and that RF2 is for those who insist on running other non-Line6 gear on 2.4 . Oh, and while you can swap in a different element the "stock" one is pretty damned sweet IMO even without the "impress the unwashed" "mic emulation" .

[wesg]

Yeah. RF2 seems targeted at environments where you don't want the Line6 equipment to interfere with other 2.4GHz equipment. Mission-critical wifi should be on 5GHz anyhow.

 

Wes

[Dogoth]

Love the sound of the Line 6 mics. You are correct in your assumption though that the 2.4 Ghz band can be problematic. If the unit you're looking at is the 12 channel model, you can usually find a few open channels. In an RF noisy environment it can be an issue. They are the only sub - $400 mic I'd consider buying (I'm revising my original spec of $500 down as I think AT makes a few good units around the $400 price point as well). They are also the only mic even near that price range that is all digital transmission. Yes they DO sound awesome.

[dedmeet]

Yeah. RF2 seems targeted at environments where you don't want the Line6 equipment to interfere with other 2.4GHz equipment. Mission-critical wifi should be on 5GHz anyhow.

 

Wes

 

Nothing mission-critical should ever rely on Wifi under any circumstance, regardless of band or type of service.

 

[RoadRanger]

Nothing mission-critical should ever rely on Wifi under any circumstance, regardless of band or type of service.

Just for the record, my DL1608 is normally run wireless via 5GHz but I always have a second iPad docked (wired connection) and accessible at sidestage. So far I've never had a wireless failure . OTOH I just ordered up a class 2 BlueTooth wireless instrument link - just a toy to play with at jams/rehearsals maybe .