Members nchangin Posted March 7, 2014 Members Share Posted March 7, 2014 Howdy folks, 4 mrx 518's and 2 mrx 515's, two amps, using a 223, behringer 15 band eq. I have been scouring over the DBX driverack literature for a DSP solution for this rig. Why? I like to expand my horizons, learn new things and hopefully make my rig sound as close to perfect as I can. So I found the drive rack pa 2, the pa + and the 260. Seems the only one in the budget is the drive rack pa 2. I have a couple questions, the RTA mic, is it not supplied? If not, is there a preferred mic? Have read about the auto eq function can do funky things to xover and eq settings, is this true with this model? manual: You can also apply compression to the entire mix in order to add some additional “body” to the sound and help “glue” the mix together. It’s this latter application that the compressor module in the PA2 was designed to address. Do any of you use this and if so is this true? I can see using comp on channels but on the main mix? I know you can get the tunings online for certain models and others' tunings but does it have MRX tunings built in? I see they have the JRX's, so I assume the MRX series are online. Limiter, not really too concerned of using it as I'm the only operator of this system. Feedback suppressor not really needed as not running monitors with this system and feedback is rare. I don't really desire the app function with a router, last thing I want to have to rely on is a wireless network to get up and running as well as everything else. To tune it my plan would be to take it to the farm and find a flat open area outside and attempt the auto tune feature for best results or just load the presets designed for the MRX's? I do apologize for all the questions, I want to make sure I make the right decision (if) I choose to go with a driverack vs a 223. Thank you everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 Personally, any of them are fine. But why are you looking for a DSP solution? What problems re you having? I ask this because I've seen more people create more problems by getting a unit like this thinking it will solve their problems. When I first used a driverack i put in the speaker and amp info and used the wizard setup. I got horrible results, it neutered the system. I reset the unit and set it up as just a basic crossover and that's it. Then as I went through gigs I used a notebook to keep track of adjustments to the FOH eq. Then I was able to easily see which frequencies I was always cutting no matter the room. I then went into the rack and made those adjustments to the eq and saved it to a channel. I then copied that to another channel. That 2nd channel was used as a backup incase the 1st channel setting got fubared somehow. Then I kept track of FOH eq adjustments that seemed to keep coming up, and if those things were something that could be adjusted in the driverack I would make the adjustments and save again. I know that's long winded but as I said before, I see too many people just hook up a driverack and expect instant awesome right out of the box. But instead end up with more issues than they started with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 My experience with the DriveRacks were somewhat better. It primarily depends upon why you wanted one. The auto-EQ, I only use it at home with the speakers facing out of the garage and the reference mic about 20' outside. (My approach to not have the right type of chamber.) I'm figuring that if I get the drive rack very flat with my speakers, that problems in a club will be minimized. (After setting the anti-feedback.) It's pretty much worked out that way. Note: that I use a large variety of speaker combinations and set them all up separately. The DriveRack made that easy. As far as a reference mic, think the official one is about $100. I've also invested in a couple of DriveRack PX units that come with the reference mics. (Plus I had one from my purchase of a DOD RTA long time ago.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 ECM8000 will fill your needs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted March 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 Personally' date=' any of them are fine. But why are you looking for a DSP solution? .[/quote'] Thank you for your feedback. Good question. Isn't DSP a better solution? Your experience I have read about - that results with auto config were not so good. What get's me is that these are so popular for that selling point yet the biggest selling feature seems to be not perfected? I am having good results with the crossover, am happy with the results, but if I could make it sound BETTER......alas this is why I am researching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted March 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm figuring that if I get the drive rack very flat with my speakers' date=' that problems in a club will be minimized. [/quote'] Bingo, thank you Mr Wynn, that is my goal as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted March 8, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 ECM8000 will fill your needs thank you pro sound guy. Is there a reason they don't include a mic? I mean it seems that would be the best solution for their product to have a complete package, I am assuming if you use the wrong RTA mic it would cause more havoc than solutions. Must be a cost thing why they don't include it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm assuming they didn't include the mic because the DriveRack PA does a lot of things for a single rack space unit. The electronic crossover, the limiters, the anti-feedback..... There are so many good reasons to have one that doesn't include the auto-EQ. In those situations where I used the auto-EQ out, I generally shut one speaker stack down for a single source, and did this before clients arrived. (Usually an Elks or VFW situation.) Using a single stack as a sound source, you do generally get the room's resonance without the peaks and valleys of two sound sources. (It does work better.) It has also be useful when blending, heaven forbid, different speakers systems. (I've done that outdoors combining my various speaker systems for more power without renting. I had about 90 db 125' from the stage.) I'm pretty sure the marketers noticed that purchasers were mostly interested in the auto-EQ and emphasized that aspect. But there really are a lot of good things beyond the EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 8, 2014 Members Share Posted March 8, 2014 The 260 is a better unit but I've had good luck and performance with the DR+ and have 3 of them. I find them clean, nice graphic Eq, fast, good comps/ limiters. I never use auto anything. Why? It's never good and I am! Lol seriously, I prefer to tune the system myself and make updates to my presets as I do more gigs with the various systems. I do use the rta with mic but probably differently than most. For quick assessments I will plug same vocal mic that's used onstage in at foh. Then I'll vocalize through the system listening and watching for bumps. Also, on one man gigs I'll often plug the rta mic in onstage, run a little music into the monitors and ring them out from foh, patching the rta mic through the snake. I prefer the DR in my foh rack. ..which may eat up more snake sends but I prefer it there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 9, 2014 Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 I've heard others like the 260 better. As far as the auto-EQ, I'm 60 and if you can show me a musician at that age that doesn't have some hearing loss, I'd be amazed. In order to do a great job of EQing a system, you need nearly perfect hearing and judgement. Both are a bit harder in old age. I'll take the tools, note the limitations, which are noted in many locations on various websites, and provide better sound support than my hearing can provide without the help. I also don't believe in perfection. You do good, prevent feedback and if you're lucky have a band good enough to sound good without much help, the night will go pretty good. You're unlikely to avoid all criticism. Once when I had a crowd of about 4000 people outdoors, I got one, it's too loud and 2 it's not loud enough. With a crowd that large, I consider that a win! Now if I could only get those people to swap places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted March 9, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thanks for the posts guys. Let me ask this, you say you use the RTA before anyone get's there, how long does it take and is it annoyingly loud when you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 9, 2014 Members Share Posted March 9, 2014 Typically, I use an SPL of around 80-85dB (C weighted) and it only takes a lot of time if you don't know what you are doing. I have discussed this in detail before but may be difficult to search the forum for the threads. You need to understand if the data you are getting is good or not, otherwise the results will only be as good (or bad) as the data and it's interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 I have a driverack in each FOH power amp rack, I've created custom presets for the speaker systems I use. RTA mic and auto EQ? No way! I've used an iPhone app a few times but my starting place is the jbl recommended settings (from the website, not drpa presets). I have not used the 260 but I'd guess it's not really needed. If all you need is a basic crossover then get a dbx223 or rane ac22b. If you want limiting etc then drpa is the answer. I use driveracks because the flexibility of any amp rack any speaker combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted March 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 jbl recommended settings (from the website' date=' not drpa presets)..[/quote'] Thank you for the post, but don't the presets for the speakers (if they have them) include the reccomended settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 As I understand it, the presets cover things like crossover freq when bi or tri amping. I've always had a cacophony of speaker types and they are never on the speaker list. Some of my amps have been there. On the amps, they do give gain settings, probably for suitable output levels. If you have the speakers listed and the amps listed, it should also set limiters. (Like everything, you need to check and see if they are clamping soon enough. Like I said, my speakers never are listed.) I've also noticed that the default crossovers for the auto setup is too high for most of my speakers. I end up resetting the crossovers and then running the auto-EQ with the right crossover frequencies. I'm guessing this probably isn't a problem with listed speaker models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 DBX presets often include poor gain structure issues, it goes back to a problem they created for themselves regarding noise floor specs that carry through to the presets that I have seen. Not all suffer from this but many do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do you guys realize that the MRX series are passive cabinets with built-in processing and cannot be bi-amped? I see no need for a Driverack with those speakers. If you need EQ, get a better EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 Passive, with built in processing? Are you just talking about a passive crossover? I don't consider that processing. The MRX my former drummer had were pretty flat EQ speakers. (So are my EV ZXA1s) But I'm pretty sure that the DriveRack helped anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 The DR is good for eq, crossover between subs and tops, limiting, etc. I don't see why it wouldn't be useful with the MRX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 10, 2014 Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do you guys realize that the MRX series are passive cabinets with built-in processing and cannot be bi-amped? I see no need for a Driverack with those speakers. If you need EQ' date=' get a better EQ.[/quote'] seems like there could be a need for the DR. 4 subs under two 515 tops. The DR could do Xover, system EQ, para EQ, delay, comp or limiting per freq range, etc.... yes, the tops are not biampable though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted March 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2014 I rarely use the eq on the mains, only to seek and destroy feedback if that arises. That is why I have a behringer with that feed back detector thingy, they call it FBQ. Hey it works quickly if I get bad evil squeal. Are the frequencies always right that it detects? No, but it's in the ball park at least. I'ts only 15 band so your right in that regard, a better eq would rule, but if I get a DR then...... multiple stones in one shot, plus reduce 4 u rack space down to 2 u.... And the crossover, correct me if I'm wrong but the DR is superior to a 223 by leaps and bounds? It has many options for different filters, which one is the best to use with this series? (yet another question) No speakers are perfectly flat and I do remember Mr aged horse (again always a thanks for input!) was saying there are a couple frequency bands on the MRX series you can give a little boost to, however finding that information from past posts may be difficult with this upgrade on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beano129 Posted March 11, 2014 Members Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi AgedHorse - I'm trying to send you a PM (regarding the issue with my Genz) and this forum seem to be a bit glitch - do you have an email address that you could PM me so I can get back to you?Thanks mate!Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted March 11, 2014 Members Share Posted March 11, 2014 I just got done reading the manual for the Driverack PA version 2. I have the PA original. The differences are many and the newer version is sounding pretty good for a tuning-less PA speakers like my Peavey DTH system. The new version has many more features to deal with things like limiting and even turning off the outputs which cannot be done with the original. Getting a driverack, IMHO, is defeated by the "auto" junk. And don't EVER use the subharmonic synth that is built in. Unless you want to just throw money away. Same thing with the feedback elimination system. I look at that out of the corner of my eye with disdain. Maybe some like it. I don't. This forum is so different now. I kinda like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 11, 2014 Members Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi AgedHorse - I'm trying to send you a PM (regarding the issue with my Genz) and this forum seem to be a bit glitch - do you have an email address that you could PM me so I can get back to you? Thanks mate! Rich agedhorse -at- aol -dot- com Yes, the messaging is not working reliably yet so it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted March 11, 2014 Members Share Posted March 11, 2014 What don't you like about the feedback elimination in the DriveRack? I have my eye on the DriveRack PX specifically because I want good automatic feedback elimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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