Members EightString Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 based on hearing a couple of classic rock covers. "You keep playing pentatonic shapes, so you must have a weak pinky when you solo. A lot of beginning players have that problem.", says a kid to me who's barely out of his teens. Gee, thanks for the tip, kid. I was only covering Racer-X and Dream Theater songs since before you were ever born, but so sorry I didn't Yngwie out on that CCR tune just for you. Next time, I'll be sure to play lots of inappropriate 32nd note scalar runs and arpeggios just for YOU, so YOU can get off while the rest of the crowd goes "WTF?!!!" What I actually said was, "It's called 'playing for the song'. You should try it sometime." Then, a few songs later, I went ahead and DID play an Yngwie song, and then smirked at the guy through the whole solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnMCA72 Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 You should have asked him where & when his next gig was, so you can show up & learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted October 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 You should have asked him where & when his next gig was, so you can show up & learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 I had a guy last month at a gig drop a 20 in the tip jar and then keep asking for Howlin Wolf and Muddy waters songs...I did a couple and proceeded with my set. At the end of my set he said "You know what your problem is? You aren't playing anything anyone wants to hear." That's after 75 bucks in the tip jar, lots of applause and people buying me stuff to drink. And I thought "Yeah, pal, because everyone here is just dying to listen to covers of Howlin Wolf and Muddy all night." I didn't say that, but I did end up reaching into the tip jar and handing him back his 20 and told him since I didn't meet his expectations, he could take his money back. Everyone in the restaurant was looking at him, and I guess he got embarrassed and just left, with the 20 still in my hands. A few people applauded when he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 I personally try very hard to take the high road, but sometimes my mouth spits out words faster than I can think. I haven't said anything negative to an audience member, but years ago I was in my 20's and working in retail. I'd just moved to Florida and was staying with my cousin. I signed up with a dating service, rather than hitting the bars. So I'm at work and I tell Rob, a guy I worked with, that I was using a dating service. Before I could say anything else he started ragging on me about how dating services were for losers. Once he shut up I said, "I've got two dates this weekend. What are YOU doing?" Shut him right up. Having a good comeback line is not taking the high road, but sometimes it's really warranted. Back when he used to live in New York, my cousin drove a pickup truck and he had a baseball bat lying loose in the truck bed. He's getting gas at a small town gas station and this guy pumping gas on the other side of the island says "Hey man, what do you use that bat for? Beating up niggers?" And my cousin said "No... biggots." The guy said "Um, ah, yeah, I know what you mean" and got out of there as quick as he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yanktar Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 My "favorite" criticism? Criticizing you for not doing something you never intended to do anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 I personally try very hard to take the high road, but sometimes my mouth spits out words faster than I can think. I haven't said anything negative to an audience member, but years ago I was in my 20's and working in retail. I'd just moved to Florida and was staying with my cousin. I signed up with a dating service, rather than hitting the bars. So I'm at work and I tell Rob, a guy I worked with, that I was using a dating service. Before I could say anything else he started ragging on me about how dating services were for losers. Once he shut up I said, "I've got two dates this weekend. What are YOU doing?" Shut him right up. Having a good comeback line is not taking the high road, but sometimes it's really warranted. Back when he used to live in New York, my cousin drove a pickup truck and he had a baseball bat lying loose in the truck bed. He's getting gas at a small town gas station and this guy pumping gas on the other side of the island says "Hey man, what do you use that bat for? Beating up niggers?" And my cousin said "No... biggots." The guy said "Um, ah, yeah, I know what you mean" and got out of there as quick as he could. Ha ha! OT, but I have a friend in ministry who years ago would preach a sermon and sure enough, every Sunday like clockwork this one round little woman would march up to the pulpit as soon as church was over with her bible in hand and start correcting him. One Sunday, my friend was preaching on the power of the tongue and of words, how such a large ship is steered by a tiny rudder, and so on, and at the end of the service urged all the members of the church to lay their tongues on the altar and ask God to bless their words and show mercy and compassion for their fellows. As soon as church ended, sure enough, here comes the little round lady marching right up the center aisle, and she said "Now pastor, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How does anyone go about laying their tongues on the altar?" And the pastor, exasperated and frustrated with this woman, just sighed and said "oh, I don't know, sister, why don't you just lay whatever you can on it and let the rest hang over the side!" He said they both immediately froze in shock. She couldn't believe he said it, and neither could he, especially in light of the message he'd just preached. He immediately apologized profusely, and truly felt horrible, but she just turned and left and he said he never saw her again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 I had a guy last month at a gig drop a 20 in the tip jar and then keep asking for Howlin Wolf and Muddy waters songs...I did a couple and proceeded with my set. At the end of my set he said "You know what your problem is? You aren't playing anything anyone wants to hear." That's after 75 bucks in the tip jar, lots of applause and people buying me stuff to drink. And I thought "Yeah, pal, because everyone here is just dying to listen to covers of Howlin Wolf and Muddy all night." I didn't say that, but I did end up reaching into the tip jar and handing him back his 20 and told him since I didn't meet his expectations, he could take his money back. Everyone in the restaurant was looking at him, and I guess he got embarrassed and just left, with the 20 still in my hands. A few people applauded when he left. Nice one! That's very similar to the time I was working with a band at a Saturday afternoon gig. We usually played a couple of Saturdays a month there, and the owners and the crowd loved us. It was free admission but the bar made money through lots of drink sales. One day this woman, who should have known better, cornered me and the keyboard player and starts saying that we're not doing what the folks want to hear (sound familiar?). She just wouldn't let up. Finally the keyboard player said to her "how much did you pay to get in here, I'd be happy to refund your money". I just started cracking up, and the woman slinked away. It's amazing how people are the same all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 I refuse to take the high road at bars. F*** 'em. Noone has said anything crappy to me in a looong time, but when I was starting out I was pretty timid. Last time anything serious happened was when some drunk dude came up asked for some request I didn't know then while walking back to his stool yelled "you suck!" This butt head was already being obnoxious and if there was a guy bartender there I think he woulda been scolded. I put my guitar down and straight up got in his face told him he needs to leave the bar or I will have him removed. He left. Im a small guy but I really dont give a crap anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 If the song calls for pentatonic, there is nothing wrong with that. I probably play about 75% pentatonic and/or blues scale (minor pentatonic with flatted fifth added or major pentatonic with minor third added) because that is what the pop music I am playing requires. I'm not up there to impress other musicians, I'm up there to entertain an audience, and I want to do it on their level. Jazz guys play harder stuff but don't get as many gigs. Years ago we had a guy come up with a 5 an ask for New York New York, we played it. (NOT my favorite song) Then he came up again with a 5 and asked us to play it again. In a few songs, we did. The third time he came up my partner says on the mic (in her best auctioneer voice), "We have 5 dollars to play New York New York again, do we have 10 NOT to play it?" That was the last time he requested it that night. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Bartus Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 Thought I'd share this here... Most of the people who visit the Keys are wonderful people with a real appreciation for our islands, our environment, and our way of life. Sometimes, however, a true jackass can set relations between locals and visitors back several years. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 There's NOTHING worse that some asshole blowing outside notes over blues based rock. Really..It sounds soulless and like {censored} to everyone but the Jazz guy and out of 100 people there MAY be on in there. It's like John said, PLAY FOR THE SONG! That said I've never been able to take {censored} from anyone and drunk assholes bothering me in bars that I'm playing, are a sore spot. I've told many to {censored} off and had to physically hit several in 20 years..I'm not ashamed of it and I never lost a gig over it. {censored}ing rude drunk assholes! God, I'm glad i'm not doing Jukebox gigs on a regular basis anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YeahDoIt Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 I used to own businesses and it was always the same story - some people criticize what I do and complain. I call money "the great clarifier", meaning that sometimes what I do may seem foolish, insane, ridiculous or stupid, but if I'm making money then I am doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fingerpicker Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 This happened YESTERDAY: I'm playing for a packed house and there is a bunch of sorority girls there. One walks under the "stage" - It is a non-raised enclosure- bangs into my mic stand and stumbles to the nearest table to pass out. A set later her and 2 others surround me while Im playing asking for the usual requests and flirting. Well the one chick who originally ran into the mic stand now is messing with my mixer! I'm like "what the hell, babe?" and she says "Im making you sound better." You know I actually thought that was pretty funny and didn't get angry. Being hot as hell didn't hurt either!! One of the 3 kept trying to ttalk to me for the rest of the gig and her boyfriend was noticably pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 Analogy: A Nuclear Physicist can lecture the crowd on a town hall meeting about a proposed nuke plant in the area two ways: Being a successful communicator is knowing what to include but also what to leave out. Insights and incites by Notes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry_L Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 Actually, some of Coltrane's most potent moments were when he worked a simple pentatonic motif into his solo. That said, I think you can also make some outside notes work and add spice to a blues solo if used judiciously. However, I played a couple of CCR tunes myself in a bar last night and made a very good impression without obviously coloring outside the lines. You can get a few incidental microtones just by bending the strings and wobbling your fingers a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 http://guitarsquid.com/Latest/how-to-be-a-douchebag-at-another-guitarists-gig.html EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted October 24, 2011 Members Share Posted October 24, 2011 If you pay attention to your audience, you will know when you are losing them or boring them. It's a dialog, not a monolog. The audience is part of the show. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted October 25, 2011 Members Share Posted October 25, 2011 Analogy: A Nuclear Physicist can lecture the crowd on a town hall meeting about a proposed nuke plant in the area two ways: He/she can use the correct polysyllabic technical and scientific terms - the kind he/she would use to fellow scientists, and lose the crowd - failing to make his/her point Talk at the audience's level, using words they can understand - and make his/her point. A musician playing blues/rock can play to an audience of blues/rock fans in two ways: Use his/her best Coltrane licks and play all of the church modes and lose his/her audience Use the pentatonic and blues scales and entertain his/her audience Being a successful communicator is knowing what to include but also what to leave out. Insights and incites by Notes ? Have you never listened to Robben Ford or Larry Carlton play blues? [video=youtube;L2ip-vigDxw] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted October 25, 2011 Members Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks! I enjoyed that very much. They seemed to be pentatonic/blues scale much more than half the time -- and -- they are playing to a jazz audience, NOT a hard-core blues audience. As much as I enjoyed that, I wouldn't play like that to my own audience. I'd sneak in fewer jazz licks and judge just how much by the audience reaction. Two masters at work is always delightful to hear. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Lou-Dog Posted October 25, 2011 Members Share Posted October 25, 2011 If you pay attention to your audience, you will know when you are losing them or boring them. It's a dialog, not a monolog. The audience is part of the show.Notes Yeah, but in saying that, some people like 8 chorus's of Blues licks. If you are playing a relatively short solo, you can put in notes that are less diatonic and they sound fantastic if used right. Someone like George Harrison did this a lot. Passing your opinion off as "incites" is always an interesting way to lose me when talking about music as well :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted October 25, 2011 Members Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks! I enjoyed that very much.They seemed to be pentatonic/blues scale much more than half the time -- and -- they are playing to a jazz audience, NOT a hard-core blues audience.As much as I enjoyed that, I wouldn't play like that to my own audience. I'd sneak in fewer jazz licks and judge just how much by the audience reaction.Two masters at work is always delightful to hear.Notes I think you grossly underestimate your audience when you view them as being singular in their musical tastes and somehow unsophisticated. As a blues player myself, I have discovered that for every "blues nazi' out there, there are 10 people with a wide variety of tastes and are accepting of talent regardless of what it is. I think audiences are sharper than most of us give them credit for, and I never worry about playing over their heads. It's funny; watch a blues guitar player and they stay pretty much in the pentatonic box. But the sax player and keyboard player in his own band play almost exclusively jazz. I never see people heading for the door when they solo, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted October 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2011 This kid seemed to be more of a Shreddi Padawan, and wanted to show his friends how big his britches were by telling me I was "doing it wrong". I don't think a few outside notes during the solo section of "Born on the Bayou" would have deterred him from his need to be an armchair critic. This particular crowd was diggin' the classics "as-is". You can just kind of tell sometimes. So no need for me to do any acrobatics. otherwise, I'm suddenly Marty McFly, having to explain why their kids are gonna love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted October 26, 2011 Members Share Posted October 26, 2011 Anybody who criticizes MY beautiful music is quite self-evidently, an idiot...or maybe I just sucked on that particular occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted October 26, 2011 Members Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hey, I'm just going with my personal experience of standing on stage for a loooooong time. Your audience and your experience may be totally different from mine. If you have a more sophisticated audience, consider yourself lucky and consider me a bit jealous. I sneak in some bop and other scales but do it oh so sparingly and in what I think is the place where it enhances the song and still sounds natural there (of course sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm not). It is said that the great Motown sax player, Junior Walker played only 5 notes, but he knew just when to play them. I strive to play a solo that is melodic, interesting and accessible to the audience I'm playing for. If a more difficult solo seems to get a reaction, I'll stretch a little further next time, if it doesn't I'll back off a little. I'm also not opposed to "showboating". At times I can play a very challenging passage on the sax and nobody but a few musical people will get it. On the other hand I can hold a high note out for 24 bars or so and get thunderous applause. Depends on the crowd. I try to play the audience as much as I play my sax, wind synth, guitar, flute and voice. I've always gone by the adage: You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians, or you can play for the general public. In either case you should get the audiences you asked for. Lou-dog, as far as insights and incites are concerned, it's very tongue-in-cheek and just a way of having a little light-hearted fun. Please don't take it seriously, It's not meant that way Notes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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