Members Kirumamoru Posted April 16, 2004 Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 So, really, how many do you want? I think it's been established that a digital piano ought to have both stereo and mono samples, and that it would probably be best to get both a stereo and a mono output at a minimum. So, it seems to me that an ''ideal'' arrangement for a digital piano should be a sound set with three samples, instead of stereo's two... a recorded right, left, and mono sample, all taken simultaniously. Sure, that means that you'd need half again the polyphony, but so what? Instead of a 64-note poly instrument, you'd have a 96-note one (or 126, or whatever). You ought to have mono effects to parallel the stereo ones, too. So, here's the ''old'' model, for instruments like the P-120 and whatnot: The idea behind all this being, of course, that you can send a stereo output to your stereo stage monitor (if you choose to use one) and the mono signal to the PA. In fact, you'd ideally set up three mics in your inital sampling session, two to capture the stereo POV of the performer and one to get a mono sample of what an audience would hear. But now I'm thinking. I'm no gigging musician, but even I can envision a situation where you might want to, say... feed the stereo output of a piano sound to stereo monitors, send the mono output of a piano to the PA... but then send the mono output of an organ to a rotary speaker. So, would it be economical to have a stereo + two mono outputs (keeping in mind more outputs = more money), so that you can have a stereo monitor feed, a PA feed, and a special feed simultaniously? Do you think it's necessary to have, say, a minimum of two sets of three (LRM) outputs? What about six outputs, but two of them are stereo and the other four each can output a mono signal? What are your thoughts as gigging (or studio) musicians? Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted April 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 Yeah, I did post this under a different thread title, but decided the title sucked and might give people the wrong idea, so.... Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted April 16, 2004 Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 I want my music to sound good in Mono. I really don't like stereo. Believe it or not-I mix for mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted April 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by marcellis I want my music to sound good in Mono. I really don't like stereo. Believe it or not-I mix for mono. Good, then I'll have just the instrument for you... just as soon as I secure funding and a development team... er, and graduate from college... and stuff... yeah. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fear My Potato Posted April 16, 2004 Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 I think a keyboard should use your routing but route them off the same samples if possible, just process it differently and send it to different jacks. Then they should add a single mono jack to the three on most boards already (phones, left, right). This way, people could use a good piano patch or something in mono and stereo at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted April 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Fear My Potato I think a keyboard should use your routing but route them off the same samples if possible, just process it differently and send it to different jacks. Then they should add a single mono jack to the three on most boards already (phones, left, right). This way, people could use a good piano patch or something in mono and stereo at the same time. The idea is simultanous output of left, right, and mono signals. It's not necessary, at least if you're designing a new keyboard, to restrict yourself to somehow using the stereo samples to produce a mono output, since recording a piano from three different points (including one from the direction that the audience would be hearing the piano if you actually had a real grand on stage) isn't really any harder than recording from two different points (for stereo). I also don't really see how you could go and add a jack to an existing keyboard... not without voiding your warranty six ways from Wednesday, at least. If I were designing the keyboard, I'd also be likely to strongly consider the possibility of keeping the samples stored in flash ROM and then uploading them into sample ROM on startup... thereby somewhat obviating the need for sample size minimizing. The beauty of a system like this is that you could probably still use a battery-backup for the RAM... only use a battery that recharges off of the main power, so the only time you'd need to reload the samples is if you left the board off for a week or so... which wouldn't take that long anyway. So, yeah, three high-fidelity sample streams isn't really going to be a big problem for instruments like piano and strings and whatnot... and instruments like Rhodes and B3 are naturally mono anyway; the stereo aspects of these instruments are added in the effects. The thing is, you wouldn't really need to have any kind of revolutionary DSP to handle this, either... the Motif ES pretty much has the power needed to execute this, though it's not organized right. It would be perfectly OK to think of each sound on the instrument as being two patches... one using the stereo sound and effect, and outputting to the LR jacks, and one using the mono sound and effect and sending the output to an aux jack. Not to imply that I'm going to be ripping off Motif DSP's, or anything. I'm just saying that the power is there, it's just that nobody's using it ''right''. Add a 76-key lightly-weighted hammer-action keyboard and design the whole thing so it folds in half, and you'll have the perfect gig board. I shouldn't give away too many secrets, though lol. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted April 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted April 16, 2004 Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 I never thought about doing it this way, but if your keyboard has a good monopiano you could accomplish the same thing by settting up a performance with your stereo piano going to your monitors through one set of outs, and the monopiano as a layer but assigned to an individual out. Roland workstations (and I'm sure others) can be set up like this fairly easily. On my XP, you can even adjust the relative volumes of up to four performance parts with the front panel sliders as you play (and I do this quite a bit live). As for your folding 76 keyboard idea, Kiru, well....I'm not a fan of 76 keys but I am a fan of some reduction in size and weight. I've always thought that you could shave the bottom 3 keys off (making a 7 octave C to C board) and I wouldn't miss them. And I'm very curious about the new M-Audio controller, and the lightweight Casio Privia pianos (I know...Casio...but they were mentioned favorably in Keyboard's review of NAMM). All under 30 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idoubtit Posted April 16, 2004 Members Share Posted April 16, 2004 headphones + stereo + two mono outputs ... this strikes me as sufficient for most performers (stereo for solo guys or small combo guys and also to mono outs for rockers that want a leslie syle amp and pa style amp). the pa feed(s) should come from the amps themselves. this stuff is useful and cheap. in fact my p120 already has two headphone jacks, an R jack, a L + R stereo jack, and two aux jacks (an R and an L). that's six. a couple of inputs for other tone generators would also be useful and cheap (roand does this on at least one keyboard). the idea of 3 samples sound good but expensive. i wonder if there is a more efficient way to get there. all in all, nice idea kiru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted April 22, 2004 Author Members Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by idoubtit the idea of 3 samples sound good but expensive. i wonder if there is a more efficient way to get there. all in all, nice idea kiru. Thanks. I don't think it'll be that expensive, but I don't know for sure. At any rate, does anyone else want to comment? Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MRkeys Posted April 22, 2004 Members Share Posted April 22, 2004 So, really, how many do you want? Well since you asked. For me all I need is ONE. That does sound like a nice idea and I know some players try to do live stereo. It just doesnt seem practicle for me to try to do stereo in a guitar band. I dont even want it in my monitor(s) if its not out front. So, if its cheaper with just one out and all mono samples then thats for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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