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Comparison: WaveTables on XT vs TI


Tony Scharf

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Before I start, I do already own an XT, and I do intend to keep it...

 

I am thinking, for certain project I may have coming up, I may get a Virus TI.

 

For those that have both or have worked with both, how do you think the wavetable stuff on the TI compares to that on the XT? It seems like the TI is lacking in enough mod sources to really take advantage of that stuff...

 

comments?

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Originally posted by XorAxAx

Does the TI even sweep?

 

The wavetable index (position) for both oscillators is available as a modulation destination.

 

Array will jump in now ;) and say that the TI does not feature a third envelope that can be assigned (to the wavetable index). It doesn't feature a fourth either (for say pitch)! However, the amp & filter EG's are mod sources, and two of the LFO's can be put into one-shot mode (where there are 61 wave shapes in addition to the usual saw/sine/tri/sq/s+h)

 

I have both - they are different enough though. The TI isn't too good at vocal/formant type stuff, but can get surprisingly gritty, though it's probably best at glassy type FM sounding patches.

 

It would be nice if (when) the TI gets the ability to import wavetables...

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IMO one of the coolest abilities of the microwave is the way you can just put a few different waveforms into the table, and it will interpolate all the rest of the steps for you, then let you sweep this generated table....I don't know if the TI does that, but I'd have to guess that it does not. If that's accurate, it would make the microwave considerably more intergalactic than the TI.

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Originally posted by XorAxAx

So it's kinda like asking "can I pull a skier with my car?" Yeah, but it's not gonna work quite like a boat...

 

 

You could put it like that! It would be a bit boring if they were both the same!

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Originally posted by Tony Scharf ..................................


It seems like the TI is lacking in enough mod sources to really take advantage of that stuff...


comments?

 

 

 

I never had an XT, but I'm pretty satisfied with the wavetables in the TI.

 

As to mod sources, you've pretty much got the usual suspects:

 

pitch bend, channel pressure, mod wheel, breath, foot, data, balance, CC #'s 3, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, expression, hold pedal, portaSw, SostPed, AmpEnv, FiltEnv, LFO's 1, 2 and 3, Note on velocity, note off velocity, Key Follow, and random.

 

you should be able to do quite a bit with those and I doubt they'd limit you much, if at all.

 

I'm a little surprised you'd consider a TI for wavetables when you've got an XT. Like I said, I've never had one, but I understand that's their specialty.

 

does the evolver series do wavetables?

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Originally posted by myteeGTi



in what way? I found the XT not even comparable to the evolver, or vice versa...

 

 

Use the editor and design your own custom waveshapes. I may be missing something in the XT as I only have samples in Kontakt 2 but I am amazed at the texture in the Evolver. Great for ambient music. The digital breakdown inherent in the stock samples ( to get that true Prophet VS vibe) isn't as apparent with your custom created waveshapes.

 

I'm pretty sure Carbon111 noticed this as well in a thread a while back.

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Originally posted by mildbill



you should be able to do quite a bit with those and I doubt they'd limit you much, if at all.


 

 

I admit to being a modulation whore. the more lack of more than two envelopes seems to be the only real limiting factor.

 

 



I'm a little surprised you'd consider a TI for wavetables when you've got an XT.

 

 

Well, for the project I am going to be doing, it would be nice to have one synth i could throw under my arm and take to practice and gigs without needing to also lug a rack. I'd be playing all synth stuff. the more different synthesis in one box, the better.

 

 


does the evolver series do wavetables?

 

 

no, it doesnt - not in the sense that the XT does. you do have a series of digital wave forms, but you cannot sweep between them the way you can on the XT/Virus.

 

Tony

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Originally posted by Tony Scharf


no, it doesnt - not in the sense that the XT does. you do have a series of digital wave forms, but you cannot sweep between them the way you can on the XT/Virus.

 

 

I think what MuzikB is saying is that if you make a set of interpolated waves and load them up into the Evolver (making it "wavetable able") then the result sounds better than what you get with a XT.

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ya, Tony, that's what i thought. wavetables can be a lot like single cycle waves without the ability to move thru them.

 

anyways, if you're going to throw it under your arm, i guess you'll be looking at the desktop or the polar then.

if you're wanting keys, i guess it'll be the polar?

 

it can cover a lot of bases.

despite what you may have heard, using the TI in virus control mode is a real pleasure.

work with it for a bit with an open mind and you may wish all synths worked that way.

 

'glassy type FM sounding patches'.

 

yes, i like those a lot. when you assign a source, even if you sweep it very slowly, you won't hear any 'glitching', just a nice, smooth gradual shifting that gets you from here to there almost without being aware of it happening.

but then again, you can do things like assign one lfo to control the index and another lfo to modulate the speed of the first one and start getting into different territory.

 

there's a nice selection of wavetables, but they're a fixed set, and as much as i'd like it, i doubt if the TI will be able to import new ones (i'm keeping my fingers crossed tho).

 

i don't use the TI as a soundcard, so it's been pretty stable for me right from the start. i hear a lot of complaining on some forums about that, but i'm not sure if it's the TI's fault, or user error.

 

anyways, as you can tell, i think it's a pretty nice unit, well worth the money, and it'd probably do right by you if you pop for one.

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Originally posted by sizzlemeister



I think what MuzikB is saying is that if you make a set of interpolated waves and load them up into the Evolver (making it "wavetable able") then the result sounds better than what you get with a XT.

 

 

ok, I can see that. It seems like it would be a realy pain real quick, particularly since you effectively end up with just one wave table...

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did a little checking, and i'm pretty sure there's a utility program called 'evo wave dump' or somesuch that allows you to take a waveform of 128 samples and load it into the evo.

 

from my time spent with samplers, i think 128 samples is a really small sample, about one cycle of a wave at 344.5 Hz (if taken at 44,100). i've found such waves to be pretty static, but it's nice that the evo can load them in.

 

i've been curious about the evo for a few years and it's probably time i pick up a version of it soon.

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Originally posted by mildbill
'glassy type FM sounding patches'.


yes, i like those a lot. when you assign a source, even if you sweep it very slowly, you won't hear any 'glitching', just a nice, smooth gradual shifting that gets you from here to there almost without being aware of it happening.

but then again, you can do things like assign one lfo to control the index and another lfo to modulate the speed of the first one and start getting into different territory.


there's a nice selection of wavetables, but they're a fixed set, and as much as i'd like it, i doubt if the TI will be able to import new ones (i'm keeping my fingers crossed tho).


 

For some lovely wavetable pad stuff - set the sinerider table on both osc1 and osc2, have lfo1 sweep index1, have lfo2 sweep index2, have lfo3 sweep the FM amount in phase mod mode via mod matrix, also set a couple of lfo to gentle frig with another couple of mod slots so it gentle and fairly chaotic - have them on the filters in split mode... Detune the oscs a tiny bit, and by an octave maybe...

 

Set something useful on osc 3 - saw for eg as well to add some body, maybe set filter 1 to 4 pole, mod the reso level slowly from something - maybe the filter env to add a distant 4th sine osc.

 

... add delay, reverb and chorus and a bit of phaser - lovely and wierd - probably even give an evolver a run for its money! :)

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Originally posted by sizzlemeister



I think what MuzikB is saying is that if you make a set of interpolated waves and load them up into the Evolver (making it "wavetable able") then the result sounds better than what you get with a XT.

 

 

This is true. With the addition of extra modulation either with the LFO's or the sequencer. Or both for that matter.

 

Still experimenting.

 

I do wish that there was a grid map to design your waveshapes on though. It would enable one to be a lot more precise.

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Originally posted by MuzikB



This is true. With the addition of extra modulation either with the LFO's or the sequencer. Or both for that matter.


Still experimenting.


I do wish that there was a grid map to design your waveshapes on though. It would enable one to be a lot more precise.

 

 

The potential of this thing is enormous. I'm still fundamentally stuck in the analog section sussing out the potential there. I have a piece I've been working on that uses the PEK for bass - amazing.

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Originally posted by sizzlemeister



The potential of this thing is enormous. I'm still fundamentally stuck in the analog section sussing out the potential there. I have a piece I've been working on that uses the PEK for bass - amazing.

 

I programmed my first bass on the PEK 2 Friday's ago. also programmed the sequencer for the first time with the bass sound. Built a beat around it in Live. :D

 

Yep, it's a rumbler although nothing fancy but very functional. I may upload it to Yahoo.

 

I haven't been able to take to the PEK as quickly as DocT, Carbon, or yourself, but I'm getting there.

 

I've been really frustrated with it a few times, to the point of just about selling it, but I'm starting to be really glad that I didn't.

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Originally posted by MuzikB



I programmed my first bass on the PEK 2 Friday's ago. also programmed the sequencer for the first time with the bass sound. Built a beat around it in Live.
:D

Yep, it's a rumbler although nothing fancy but very functional. I may upload it to Yahoo.


I haven't been able to take to the PEK as quickly as DocT, Carbon, or yourself, but I'm getting there.


I've been really frustrated with it a few times, to the point of just about selling it, but I'm starting to be really glad that I didn't.

 

I'd love to hear it. I don't know if I'm that quick in taking to it, either, though. I haven't really touched the sequencer, nor have I even bothered to sample anything into it, let alone really explore the digital oscillators substantially.

 

I can respect what you're trying to get out of it - that's why I'm still stuck dealing with it mainly as an analog synth. For some reason it doesn't react well to being treated like an old poly - in the sense that the knowledge and experience I have in programming analog synths is at odds with how the PEK accepts that older paradigm. So the filter seems to have more range in the middle, and the resonance parameter has a wide range as well. The VCA section totally messes me up. It's like it's forcing me to toss out my experiences with synths over the past 20 years, retain the "academic" or technical nowledge, and approach "the synth" from a different angle.

 

I know this isn't coming out right - it's hard to explain. Sort of like going from acrylic paints to oils and a larger canvas.

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Staying off-topic, but still talking PEK....

 

I've found the PEK incredibly difficult to get used to. Don't get me wrong, I love the machine, but it wants to naturally go places that I haven't necessarily chosen it to go.

 

For a while I was getting frustrated with my results, however, more recently, I have discovered much beauty in its digital waveforms. Really I'm still just touching the surface of what it is capable of.

 

I agree though, that the old analogue paradigm feels inappropriate for the PEK, although I had originally bought it to fill that niche for me. It is very capable of being a straightforward substractive synth, but that means underutilising its other qualities.

 

Hrmm// back ON topic. I just don't know about the TI - It seems to me that if you want a wavetable synth, then you'd be better off buying a Waldorf XT AND a Virus C, and pass on the TI's glitchiness and bugs.

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Originally posted by drxcm .........................


pass on the TI's glitchiness and bugs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

do you have a TI? most of the people who post here who have TI's have had very few (if any) problems with them.

 

 

i don't have an evolver, but every time i go to the local GC, i play around with a PEK.

it's difficult to keep your hands off all those parameters that take you into 'strange' territory, but those are what make it unique.

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Originally posted by mildbill

do you have a TI? most of the people who post here who have TI's have had very few (if any) problems with them.

 

 

I wish I did!

 

I've thought about buying one a number of times, but reading the virusti.com forums has always put me off. It also seems overpriced to me, considering you could buy a virus C and an XT or similar synth for the same price.

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Originally posted by drxcm




I've thought about buying one a number of times, but reading the virusti.com forums has always put me off. It also seems overpriced to me, considering you could buy a virus C
and
an XT or similar synth for the same price.

 

 

That almost ended up more of a {censored}-fest than HC!

 

I think that more often than not the people who post questions and complaints on forums like that are ones with problems, and often don't take the time to read or learn for themselves...

 

So you don't get a true representation of all the users, including those that are content with their TI's - I think there are a few of us on here, some who have and I guess quite a few more who haven't signed up over there.

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