Thoughts on KORE 2

[yaakp!]

What do you think about the new NI KORE 2?

 

It looks like a nice tool for sound design with its internal sounds,

and very handy for presets (especially for Komplete owners).

 

Also - if it's really CPU-efficient - it could be a nice controller.

 

So anybody here owns Kore 2? Good or bad?

 

Everybody else: any opinions?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Tony Scharf]

I have it, and its not bad. I use it as a container and audio interface on a second PC turning that PC into, essentially, a giant Synth. Works well enough.

 

The hype that native instrument spews on it is annoying, and I only have it because there was a good deal on it initially for Komplete users. But it does work pretty well for what I am using it for and saves me needing to have a whole DAW setup on the second machine.

[carbon111]

Tony,

Unless NI changed the specs, Kore 2 has no audio interface (Kore 1 does though). Thats why I'm not "upgrading". Pay more, get less. Supposedly the version 2 software will work with the original Kore hardware but I'm not certain if its audio interface is still supported in that case.

 

All that aside, I like Kore. Quite a lot actually, despite my sour grapes. Its a VST Host, a USB MIDI interface, a Control Surface, a database-style Patch Browser and gives you the ability to make "Multis" by layering many VST synths on the fly, recallable at the push of a button. Very nice!

 

...and in the case of the original Kore, it was also a USB audio interface.

 

I use it all the time as Host on a computer I've dedicated to softsynths that I run alongside my DAW. All my softies run in Kore and I use the database to sort and catalog all my own patches. As I said, its fantastic for making frankenpatches by stacking different manufacturer's synths and being able to save them! Kore runs great for me though some people had problems when using Kore itself as a plugin...YMMV

 

Cool idea, though many people still don't "get" Kore...some folks are still under the mistaken impression that Kore contains DSP for example. Its NI's fault for not marketing/explaining it better IMHO.

[Tony Scharf]

 

Tony, Unless NI changed the specs, Kore 2 has no audio interface (Kore 1 does though). Thats why I'm not "upgrading". Pay more, get less. Supposedly the version 2 software will work with the original Kore hardware but I'm not certain if its audio interface is still supported in that case.

 

 

The audio interface works just fine, you just dont install the Kore 2 control driver. The controller is recognized the same by the software.

 

Also, Kore 2 doesnt require the hardware at all anymore - you can use it with any midi controller you want, you just loose the tight integration. Its no longer a dongle for the software.

 

To really make use of this, I need to get a card with an ADAT interface so I can buss multiple tracks to this PC and back to my main. In that case the Kore controller isnt needed at all.

 

Another point for Kore 2 over Kore 1 is that Kore 2 has the NI plugins built into it to increase efficiency. For my application of turning a PC into a Komplete 5 workstation, Kore 2 gets the most out of it for me.

[carbon111]

The OP was asking after Kore 2 which is why I mentioned the lack of an audio interface.

 

FWIW, the later versions of Kore 1 software will run without the hardware as well. I have used mine both with and without the hardware but its just more convenient to use it with the hardware as it obviates the need for an audio i/f and a MIDI i/f.

 

My opinion is that the included patches in Kore 2 are just there to "wet people's whistles" towards buying the full synths of Absynth, Massive, Reaktor, etc...

I already own all those so its a non-issue for me.

[mytee2.0]

so how long until kore 3

[yaakp!]

How about running KORE 2 inside a DAW as a plug-in?

 

I just wonder - since it's basically a host inside a host - how will KORE 2 itself

have an impact on CPU...

 

If it's light, then I guess it could be great to layer instruments,

but also as a way to add effects inside KORE 2, rather than additional plug-ins on the track.

 

If it's heavy on the CPU, then I guess its only usefulness would be to work in stand-alone mode,

sort of a synth/sampler with extremely high-quality sounds!

 

It just seems strange that this product has been out for three months

and it doesn't seem to get much attention..

[Tony Scharf]

 

How about running KORE 2 inside a DAW as a plug-in? I just wonder - since it's basically a host inside a host - how will KORE 2 itself have an impact on CPU... If it's light, then I guess it could be great to layer instruments, but also as a way to add effects inside KORE 2, rather than additional plug-ins on the track. If it's heavy on the CPU, then I guess its only usefulness would be to work in stand-alone mode, sort of a synth/sampler with extremely high-quality sounds! It just seems strange that this product has been out for three months and it doesn't seem to get much attention..

 

 

 

you *can* do that, but I honestly dont see the point to it at all. Your just adding an additional layer of complexity in an already complex environment.

 

it got a lot of hype when V1 was announced, mainly because people thought it was something else - they thought it was an NI version of Live. When details finally surfaced, it kinda fizzled.

 

Apparently, there are some very basic arpegio/sequence kind of things in there, but I have never even tried to use them. for what I use it for, it works quite well.

[greggybud]

I bought KORE just a month before KORE2 was released and upgraded to KORE2 software using KORE1 controler. I think KORE2 is a big improvement over KORE1 but still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

1. Batch import doesn't work for all soft synths such as the entire Arturia line.

 

2. Impossible to create user templates seperate and apart from a .ksd. This is a huge omission in my opinion. This means, depending on what soft synth you are working with, if you change a patch, you lose your user settings. There is a way around to avoid this problem but it doesn't work with NIs newer synths such as Massive or FM8.

 

3. As a plug-in there are no user default settings when starting KORE2. i.e. it will always open the factory way and then I have to change it.

 

4. KORE2 Owners manual is very poor. There are no examples or illistrations like there was with KORE1. Another indication KORE2 was rushed out the door. And as usual NI is now releasing video tutorials.

 

NI has a history of rushing products and relying on unpaid beta testers. Of course NI is not alone in that department. And considering cutting edge mind-blowing products such as Reaktor...I have forgiven them.

 

IMO I think KORE will remain a tweakers delight, but a limited tool for a larger market of musicians who desire KORE (or any other vst TOOL for that matter) to be a shortcut for sound design! I apologize, but I am a musician first, and can only invest limited time in learning and attempting to make these tools achieve something close to their fullest potential. I don't have the desire, experience, or time to optimize KORE2. Maybe you or others do and thats wonderful, but it really limits the potential of turning this into a more mainstream tool for a much broader market of musicians.

 

NI must realize the market potential for KORE2 is fairly limited until certain functions can be easily accomplished by a majority of KORE2 users to make this a tool they couldn't live without.

 

A start would be a comprehensive manual with examples to get new users interested in KORE2 instead of overwhelmed.

 

I feel I am a minority user of KORE2 (i.e. a musician using this as a tool trying to achieve some fairly simple tasks to streamline music production/creation)

 

KORE2 is more of a tool for a small market of vst users who do not have production deadlines, and are willing to invest many hours experimenting/learning as opposed to working musicians with song/production/creation deadlines.

 

I wonder if some users use KORE only as a librarian and nothing else?

 

With Reaktor or most other NI products it is easy to draw the line and recognize your boundaries. For example there are those who invest months and love creating ensembles and manipulating sound. On the other side there are the users of snapshots that just manipulate a little bit for their sound, and have no interest in synth building. But most of the time when I use KORE2 I get sidetracked and waste too much time tweaking or trying to make it do what it's advertised to do when I should be producing. It will be very interesting to see what NI does with the future of KORE.

[yaakp!]

Thanks guys for sharing your opinion!

 

I'll probably buy KORE 2 in the near future (it's included in the Komplete bundle)

so I'll have the chance to find out...

 

Right now I must say it looks like KORE 2 is a product "for the masses".

It doesn't seem to be made for the soft synth tweakers, but it's more of a "presets machine".

Yes, they give you the engines, but you don't really need the full instruments.

 

And they are selling soundpacks, so it seems that they're not interested in making you want to buy - for example - Massive,

they make things simple and give you just the sounds!

 

Just like a ROMpler, say a Korg Triton,

where you pick an EP and you have a few real time controls to tweak a little the sound - and that's it.

Very few Triton owners dig deep into the machine to create their own sounds.

 

So probably KORE 2 is just a very powerful preset player,

with effects and "easy" sound design features - no big deal for the owners of single NI instruments.

[Kenwio]

I'm a user of Kore 1 since NI released it, and I am very happy with it. It really fits my needs well, since I'm a keybaordist/singer and I play live alot. I run all my sounds through my laptop and via Kore 1 controller and software. I've just ordered the Roland FC-300 MIDI Peadlboard which I will use to quickly change sounds in live performances..I noticed though that Kore 1 doesn't support MIDI well, so I'm now on my way to uprade to the Kore 2 software.

 

I wouldn't make without Kore!

 

/Kenw

[ew_]

 

I bought KORE just a month before KORE2 was released and upgraded to KORE2 software using KORE1 controler. I think KORE2 is a big improvement over KORE1 but still leaves a lot to be desired. 1. Batch import doesn't work for all soft synths such as the entire Arturia line.

 

Batch import won't work for anything that doesn't follow .fxp/.fxb convention. I'd be putting the blame on Arturia for not following industry standards here.

 

2. Impossible to create user templates seperate and apart from a .ksd. This is a huge omission in my opinion. This means, depending on what soft synth you are working with, if you change a patch, you lose your user settings. There is a way around to avoid this problem but it doesn't work with NIs newer synths such as Massive or FM8.

 

The workaround is to save a .ksd as a template and use that when you import. How's that really any different? And, if you're changing patches via program changes, the old controller pages remain.

 

The NI products have EA pages; that's what they considered the things a live user would like to get his hands on. While Massive and FM8's pages could use some improvement IMO; most of the rest are so open ended depending on the patch that it doesn't make sense to have in depth global pages, because everything's so patch dependent. And, at least you can import ensemble snaps from Reaktor, and have each snap in a given ensemble use the same controller pages that you made for the first snap.

 

3. As a plug-in there are no user default settings when starting KORE2. i.e. it will always open the factory way and then I have to change it.

 

Which is only logical. Most users aren't going to want the plugin configured for a particular loaded plugin when they load Kore as a plugin, are they?

 

4. KORE2 Owners manual is very poor. There are no examples or illistrations like there was with KORE1. Another indication KORE2 was rushed out the door. And as usual NI is now releasing video tutorials.

 

I think the manual's OK. It tells you what you need to get up and running.

 

NI has a history of rushing products and relying on unpaid beta testers. Of course NI is not alone in that department. And considering cutting edge mind-blowing products such as Reaktor...I have forgiven them.

 

1) you can't test on every possible configuration of software and hardware; things would never be released if you did.

2) unfortunately, marketing deadlines do play a role (as in any other product)

 

IMO I think KORE will remain a tweakers delight, but a limited tool for a larger market of musicians who desire KORE (or any other vst TOOL for that matter) to be a shortcut for sound design! I apologize, but I am a musician first, and can only invest limited time in learning and attempting to make these tools achieve something close to their fullest potential. I don't have the desire, experience, or time to optimize KORE2. Maybe you or others do and thats wonderful, but it really limits the potential of turning this into a more mainstream tool for a much broader market of musicians.

 

So because you're unwilling to invest the time, it's a flawed design?

Of course with something as complex as Kore can be, there's going to be a learning curve; there's no way around it. But, it's not that hard; I learned my way around both versions before there were manuals for them, and that's on top of my normal job and my forum work.

 

NI must realize the market potential for KORE2 is fairly limited until certain functions can be easily accomplished by a majority of KORE2 users to make this a tool they couldn't live without.

 

Hence, the Kore player concept.

 

A start would be a comprehensive manual with examples to get new users interested in KORE2 instead of overwhelmed.

 

That's why there's the video tutorials. Most people don't read the manuals to begin with- the Kore forum's evidence of that.

 

I feel I am a minority user of KORE2 (i.e. a musician using this as a tool trying to achieve some fairly simple tasks to streamline music production/creation)

 

Actually, I'd say you're in the majority. The minority are the people you mention below:

 

KORE2 is more of a tool for a small market of vst users who do not have production deadlines, and are willing to invest many hours experimenting/learning as opposed to working musicians with song/production/creation deadlines. I wonder if some users use KORE only as a librarian and nothing else?

 

Quite a few from what I've heard.

 

With Reaktor or most other NI products it is easy to draw the line and recognize your boundaries. For example there are those who invest months and love creating ensembles and manipulating sound. On the other side there are the users of snapshots that just manipulate a little bit for their sound, and have no interest in synth building. But most of the time when I use KORE2 I get sidetracked and waste too much time tweaking or trying to make it do what it's advertised to do when I should be producing. It will be very interesting to see what NI does with the future of KORE.

 

Very interesting indeed...

 

Your Kore forum moderator,

ew

[girevik]

As a Mac person, Mainstage (part of Logic Studio) looks like the better investment for me - looks like a similar product.

 

If you want to talk tweaker's delight, Max/MSP has VST hosting capability.