Members devolition Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 I hope this doesn't sound too trollish. I'm sincerely interested in Kurzweil synths. I've been reading about them, and I'm confused about VAST. Everything I see claims it's amazing but supposedly difficult to learn to use. One could argue that modular synths are, like VAST, complex and expensive, but there are a plethora of videos and audio samples of people doing neat things with them. Whereas, all the Kurzweil sound samples I've heard, while pretty "realistic" sounding, sound pretty generic bread-and-butter to me. Where are the sound samples that demonstrate the power of VAST? Or is there something special I should be listening for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well, actually the power of VAST is in choosing the right components for the sound you're making. That is, for some sounds you might need a 4-pole filter, whereas for others you would need a sync oscillator and a 2-pole filter. It's actually quite easy to grasp. You can actually compare VAST to a modular system like Native Instruments Reaktor, although on a bit smaller scale. You choose the DSP processing components, set it up in algorythms (somewhat similar to Yamaha DX7 algos, but not quite the same...) or make up your own wirings (new on PC3 series) and stuff. It really is not THAT hard to master VAST, you just need time, a good read or two of the manual, and at least some previous knowledge about synthesis and stuff. And, it's not about how much bread-and-butter the sound samples are. It's about the quality of samples and the system processing them. You can really do a LOT with all those parameters VAST is offering you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinP-268 Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 There are plenty of audio demos on Kurzweil's web site. Check them out:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Binkeys Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Kurzweil has also said that they'll be posting video tutorials on their site soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Martin Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 It can do this - K2600 Thats just two patches on a K2600, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lewey Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 All kinds of {censored}, nothing more. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cruster Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 Others have posted links to samples, and I would add that there are some interesting VAST tutorials (and sound clips) on the SonikMatter forum. There is also the VAST Programmer utility available, which can be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members setAI Posted November 4, 2008 Members Share Posted November 4, 2008 open up those FUNs and you have got access to all sorts of Buchla 'banjo' blipity stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cowzar Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 Synthmania put up many of the K2000's preset sounds in MP3's. **Late Edit..Demo songs of K2 series VAST (Variable Architecture Synthesis) is not complicated to learn, its just deep in what it can do. We have probably the most in depth tutorials/information on our site. (free) Take a look around if you want to find out what its all about. (link is in my signature) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 Cowzar KNOWS V.A.S.T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 It can do this - K2600Thats just two patches on a K2600, nothing more. Mike, that is a beautiful demo. I vaguely remember you posting a "guess this synth" using that several years ago. Can the PC3 cop this sound? P.S. I'm a new PC3 owner with no prior VAST experience. I'll be learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members augerinn Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 MAybe I'll load up VAST essentials and post some demos..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members setAI Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 If I had to do the early 90s again- I would skip all the cheap samplers /synths/drum machines/fx racks and mixer/amp/cable headaches and I would just get a K2000S until PC based DAWS came around- I almost got one after a friend of mine did and was in love- and I had plenty of time playing one- but I just didn't- If I couldn't use a PC I would go Kurzweil workstation all the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 All kinds of {censored}, nothing more. Literally. Kinda like owning a Miata, literally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EerieDreamZ Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 Cowzar KNOWS V.A.S.T Yes he does! The tutorials and examples he's done were extremely helpful to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 Kinda like owning a Miata, literally hey! no make fun miata! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stikygum Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 All kinds of shit, nothing more. Literally. What's new. Lewey in yet another Kurzweil thread. Woohoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mediterranean Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 It can do this - K2600Thats just two patches on a K2600, nothing more. Was so impressed by what I heard that I had to do this [video attached]. Ending segment of a documentary about Orcas:) Reminded me of Joel Fajerman's music ["L'Aventure des Plantes""]. You should be making music for wild life documentaries:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 Mike, that is a beautiful demo. I vaguely remember you posting a "guess this synth" using that several years ago. I remember that post because i came a day too late and the file was gone. It never reappeared. And i believe there were two other files too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Martin Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 I'm sure I have the other files somewhere. You've got a good memory. I think I had switched the hosting (location) on those files so the links probably did break in that original thread. I'll see what else I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Martin Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 Mike, that is a beautiful demo. I vaguely remember you posting a "guess this synth" using that several years ago.Can the PC3 cop this sound? P.S. I'm a new PC3 owner with no prior VAST experience. I'll be learning. Thanks Eric!I'm quite certain it can do those sounds. It will take a little bit of work to move it over to the PC3 but it can be done. I just got a PC3X last week and as a pure synth it definitely raises the bar compared to the K2600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 I hope this doesn't sound too trollish. I'm sincerely interested in Kurzweil synths. I've been reading about them, and I'm confused about VAST. Everything I see claims it's amazing but supposedly difficult to learn to use. V.A.S.T. ex-programmer here. Had Kurzweil K-2500R for two years and programmed the {censored} out of it. In short: All this VAST thing sounds so cool and nice until you engage the most basic 12db resonant filter on K-2500 and figure out all the VAST is gone and you are left without most DSP modules. Even my 15 years old JD-990 can have 12 dB resonant filter or 24dB resonant filter (2 filters in series), structures (VCA, VCF placement in chain), ring modulator, FM (fxm), osc sync - all at the same time. Kurzweil 2500 can't. So in general it is weaker than JD-990 in that aspect. Only benefits on Kurz are the FUNs (from which you can build LFO's etc), raw oscillators and true FM... and that's about it. Keep in mind that K-2600 is better because it offers triple mode - but - at the cost of polyphony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don Solaris Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 open up those FUNs and you have got access to all sorts of Buchla 'banjo' blipity stuff Yeah but it fails big time on modulations, specially the FM. In that department sounds just like another VSTi (i.e. Reaktor, VAZ, etc.). No matter how hard you try, you can never pull out this kind of Frequency Modulation sound out of Kurz: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 The same thing applies to PC3x, but in Cascade mode (that's 32-layer version of Triple mode). You can have all that you have mentioned (the whole VCF, VCA, ringmod, FM, sync thing) on the PC3x, but also at the cost of polyphony. The difference is also that you can even wire your own algos. But, the plus here is 128 poly, which sounds really much better than 48 poly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike Martin Posted November 5, 2008 Members Share Posted November 5, 2008 V.A.S.T. ex-programmer here. Had Kurzweil K-2500R for two years and programmed the {censored} out of it. In short: All this VAST thing sounds so cool and nice until you engage the most basic 12db resonant filter on K-2500 and figure out all the VAST is gone and you are left without most DSP modules.Even my 15 years old JD-990 can have 12 dB resonant filter or 24dB resonant filter (2 filters in series), structures (VCA, VCF placement in chain), ring modulator, FM (fxm), osc sync - all at the same time. Kurzweil 2500 can't. So in general it is weaker than JD-990 in that aspect. Only benefits on Kurz are the FUNs (from which you can build LFO's etc), raw oscillators and true FM... and that's about it. Keep in mind that K-2600 is better because it offers triple mode - but - at the cost of polyphony. As a JD990 owner, I understand what you mean but they are two entirely different machines. That lead in that audio example while actually a relatively simple sound couldn't be done on a JD990 - the controller smoothing (done by FUNs) are really what make its sounds "sing" and be more expressive than any other synth I've owned. That particular sound may not be the best example of that...but I'll see if I can find another. The PC3's architecture along with its new filters, waveform generators, effects and polyphony really takes VAST to yet a whole other level. In the end it may depend on your own particular needs and style of working. I'm not intending to suggest that a Kurzweil would fit everyone's needs....but for my needs I've never found anything more flexible or that sounds as good in hardware or software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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