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  • Phil O'Keefe
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post
    For overheads I prefer Glyn Johns to XY or spaced pair.

    Phil if you use the overheads for your primary picture of the drums you also time-allign the snare and kick to be in phase coherence?

    if so would you mind saying a few words to the home recordists in our community here about the importance specifically on drums with all the many microphones to get everything in phase coherence.
    Any time you put up two or more microphones on a source, phase coherence is crucial. The more mics you put up, the more likely you are to have issues with polarity. Being aware of and trying to follow the three to one rule can help, although you might not always be able to follow it religiously when close-miking drums.

    Coincidentally, we've got an article from Craig Anderton in the issue of Make Better Music (our bi-weekly e-zine) that goes out today on the importance of phase / polarity.

    http://www.harmonycentral.com/articl...rity-integrity

    If you don't already subscribe to MBM, you might want to consider it. It's free, and we don't spam you or sell our mailing list to anyone else...

    https://www.harmonycentral.com/newsletter_signup





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  • Tom Hicks
    replied
    And here's a picture to help you guys visualize the arrangement.


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  • Tom Hicks
    replied
    For overheads I prefer Glyn Johns to XY or spaced pair.

    Phil if you use the overheads for your primary picture of the drums you also time-allign the snare and kick to be in phase coherence?

    if so would you mind saying a few words to the home recordists in our community here about the importance specifically on drums with all the many microphones to get everything in phase coherence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil O'Keefe
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post

    1 overhead above the snare and the other equidistant but placed just over the floor tom pointed at the snare?
    Basically... although "above the snare" is a general description - it can be moved out a little towards the rack tom, or over towards the hat a bit if needed. Same with the floor tom position - It's going to be over in that general area, and it's going to be aiming across a large part of the kit, but not always placed directly over the floor tom, or aimed straight at the snare or hi hat. Part of it is going to be dependent on the quirks of the player's individual setup preferences. The important things are to make sure you're getting good coverage of as much of the kit as possible (so angles and placement positions are important) and that you keep the snare and kick equi-distant, which can be a bit tricky.

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  • Tom Hicks
    replied
    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
    I'll do player's perspective or audience perspective - whichever one the producer wants. If it's up to me, I usually go with something very similar to what Anton described. I will usually measure distance from the center of the snare and the kick beater when placing my overheads to insure both are in the center of the stereo soundfield, and then pan the close mics to work with that.

    My overheads are usually in a modified Glyn Johns arrangement. Room mics are a stereo spaced pair, and out front and above the kit if I have a nice sounding large room, although sometimes I'll go with a Blumlein pair directly behind and just above the drummer's head, facing forward towards the center of the kit.
    1 overhead above the snare and the other equidistant but placed just over the floor tom pointed at the snare?

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  • Phil O'Keefe
    replied
    Originally posted by Zooey View Post
    I put up a hi hat mic for the drummer's sake, but don't often use it.
    I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, so I'll usually put one up... but I often don't need it.

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  • Phil O'Keefe
    replied
    I'll do player's perspective or audience perspective - whichever one the producer wants. If it's up to me, I usually go with something very similar to what Anton described. I will usually measure distance from the center of the snare and the kick beater when placing my overheads to insure both are in the center of the stereo soundfield, and then pan the close mics to work with that.

    My overheads are usually in a modified Glyn Johns arrangement. Room mics are a stereo spaced pair, and out front and above the kit if I have a nice sounding large room, although sometimes I'll go with a Blumlein pair directly behind and just above the drummer's head, facing forward towards the center of the kit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zooey
    replied
    I put up a hi hat mic for the drummer's sake, but don't often use it. I pan the overheads from the player's perspective. I mean, you wouldn't put the low notes of a piano on the right, would you?

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  • Red Ant
    replied
    Originally posted by redEL34 View Post
    Drummers are the first to be replaced with software. They`ve pretty much perfected that anglothri.
    Been said since the early 80s... and yet there is still an abundance of drummers

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  • redEL34
    replied
    Drummers are the first to be replaced with software. They`ve pretty much perfected that anglothrim. Coming for guitar players next. I`ve seen them but haven`t tried them. Perfection for that is still several years down. Too many options to program.

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  • Zipperhead
    replied
    As a bass player it took me some time to understand that a drum kit is one instrument, not a bunch of separate instruments. Bonham educated me. Start with a mono overhead. If you have a second mic put it on the kick. If you have a third put it on the snare. And so on. When I record drums these days I put stupid amounts of mics up. I love a ribbon in the center. PZMs on the wall depending on the room. And then I simplify.

    When I mix all these tracks I start with overheads mixed to mono. I bring in kick and snare for clarity and any possible isolated effects. Depending on the track I might edit the tom tracks to cut out everything except where they hit. I used to do this with tape, including putting the reel on backwards to get a tight in. Hate analog gates!

    I'll go for mono-ish if it makes sense. For stereo I put the hat on the left. That's just the way I hear it.

    Mono drums or partly mono mixes of drums can really focus what's going on. I put the direct snare mic in the center but the overheads have a left bias on the hat and snare if panned.


    I love compression on the overheads so the cymbals sound like freight trains going backwards ;-)

    Zip

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  • Red Ant
    replied
    Originally posted by gismo recording View Post
    I mic my set with two overheads positioned about 5' off the ground pointed at right angles to each other. The line of sight along the line directly in the middle of these two mics is pointed pretty much at the drummer's crotch. I find these two mics do a really good job of capturing both the cymbals and the toms so I frequently don't use the tom mics in the final mix, but if I do it's overheads panned 90 and 30, kick center, snare slightly right of center, hat further right of center, 1st tom right of center between snare and hat, tom 2 slightly left of center, tom 3 further left. But like I said, I frequently don't use the tom signals because the overheads pick them up quite well.
    If no tom mics, then overheads as before, kick center, snare 1:30, hat 10:30
    I have a largely irrational dislike of the snare anywhere but dead center

    Unless the whole kit is being treated as a point source and is panned somewhere other than up the middle.

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  • gismo recording
    replied
    I mic my set with two overheads positioned about 5' off the ground pointed at right angles to each other. The line of sight along the line directly in the middle of these two mics is pointed pretty much at the drummer's crotch. I find these two mics do a really good job of capturing both the cymbals and the toms so I frequently don't use the tom mics in the final mix, but if I do it's overheads panned 90 and 30, kick center, snare slightly right of center, hat further right of center, 1st tom right of center between snare and hat, tom 2 slightly left of center, tom 3 further left. But like I said, I frequently don't use the tom signals because the overheads pick them up quite well.
    If no tom mics, then overheads as before, kick center, snare 1:30, hat 10:30

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  • Hoddy
    replied
    I love this recording...drums and bass to the left... vocals both sides....everything else to the right!

    Last edited by Hoddy; 05-12-2019, 03:35 PM.

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  • Red Ant
    replied
    Originally posted by gismo recording View Post
    Reminds me of a keyboard part I played in a song my band did. I was using a tenor sax sample but I played it totally legato with no rests. When I listened back to the recording I realized that there's no way a sax player could play 16 bars straight without taking a breath.
    There's nothing quite like playing a "tenor sax" solo on a Korg M-1, then having an actor with a saxello (curved soprano sax) mime being blind and mime one's playing in the music video

    Last edited by Red Ant; 05-12-2019, 03:26 PM.

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