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  • #16
    I love this recording...drums and bass to the left... vocals both sides....everything else to the right!

    Last edited by Hoddy; 05-12-2019, 03:35 PM.
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    • #17
      I mic my set with two overheads positioned about 5' off the ground pointed at right angles to each other. The line of sight along the line directly in the middle of these two mics is pointed pretty much at the drummer's crotch. I find these two mics do a really good job of capturing both the cymbals and the toms so I frequently don't use the tom mics in the final mix, but if I do it's overheads panned 90 and 30, kick center, snare slightly right of center, hat further right of center, 1st tom right of center between snare and hat, tom 2 slightly left of center, tom 3 further left. But like I said, I frequently don't use the tom signals because the overheads pick them up quite well.
      If no tom mics, then overheads as before, kick center, snare 1:30, hat 10:30
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      • #18
        Originally posted by gismo recording View Post
        I mic my set with two overheads positioned about 5' off the ground pointed at right angles to each other. The line of sight along the line directly in the middle of these two mics is pointed pretty much at the drummer's crotch. I find these two mics do a really good job of capturing both the cymbals and the toms so I frequently don't use the tom mics in the final mix, but if I do it's overheads panned 90 and 30, kick center, snare slightly right of center, hat further right of center, 1st tom right of center between snare and hat, tom 2 slightly left of center, tom 3 further left. But like I said, I frequently don't use the tom signals because the overheads pick them up quite well.
        If no tom mics, then overheads as before, kick center, snare 1:30, hat 10:30
        I have a largely irrational dislike of the snare anywhere but dead center

        Unless the whole kit is being treated as a point source and is panned somewhere other than up the middle.
        Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

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        • #19
          As a bass player it took me some time to understand that a drum kit is one instrument, not a bunch of separate instruments. Bonham educated me. Start with a mono overhead. If you have a second mic put it on the kick. If you have a third put it on the snare. And so on. When I record drums these days I put stupid amounts of mics up. I love a ribbon in the center. PZMs on the wall depending on the room. And then I simplify.

          When I mix all these tracks I start with overheads mixed to mono. I bring in kick and snare for clarity and any possible isolated effects. Depending on the track I might edit the tom tracks to cut out everything except where they hit. I used to do this with tape, including putting the reel on backwards to get a tight in. Hate analog gates!

          I'll go for mono-ish if it makes sense. For stereo I put the hat on the left. That's just the way I hear it.

          Mono drums or partly mono mixes of drums can really focus what's going on. I put the direct snare mic in the center but the overheads have a left bias on the hat and snare if panned.


          I love compression on the overheads so the cymbals sound like freight trains going backwards ;-)

          Zip
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          • #20
            Drummers are the first to be replaced with software. They`ve pretty much perfected that anglothrim. Coming for guitar players next. I`ve seen them but haven`t tried them. Perfection for that is still several years down. Too many options to program.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by redEL34 View Post
              Drummers are the first to be replaced with software. They`ve pretty much perfected that anglothri.
              Been said since the early 80s... and yet there is still an abundance of drummers

              Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

              -- Vaclav Havel

              The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

              -- Carl Sagan


              Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

              -- Joseph Brodsky

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              • #22
                I put up a hi hat mic for the drummer's sake, but don't often use it. I pan the overheads from the player's perspective. I mean, you wouldn't put the low notes of a piano on the right, would you?

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                • #23
                  I'll do player's perspective or audience perspective - whichever one the producer wants. If it's up to me, I usually go with something very similar to what Anton described. I will usually measure distance from the center of the snare and the kick beater when placing my overheads to insure both are in the center of the stereo soundfield, and then pan the close mics to work with that.

                  My overheads are usually in a modified Glyn Johns arrangement. Room mics are a stereo spaced pair, and out front and above the kit if I have a nice sounding large room, although sometimes I'll go with a Blumlein pair directly behind and just above the drummer's head, facing forward towards the center of the kit.
                  **********

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Zooey View Post
                    I put up a hi hat mic for the drummer's sake, but don't often use it.
                    I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, so I'll usually put one up... but I often don't need it.

                    **********

                    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                    - George Carlin

                    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
                      I'll do player's perspective or audience perspective - whichever one the producer wants. If it's up to me, I usually go with something very similar to what Anton described. I will usually measure distance from the center of the snare and the kick beater when placing my overheads to insure both are in the center of the stereo soundfield, and then pan the close mics to work with that.

                      My overheads are usually in a modified Glyn Johns arrangement. Room mics are a stereo spaced pair, and out front and above the kit if I have a nice sounding large room, although sometimes I'll go with a Blumlein pair directly behind and just above the drummer's head, facing forward towards the center of the kit.
                      1 overhead above the snare and the other equidistant but placed just over the floor tom pointed at the snare?
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post

                        1 overhead above the snare and the other equidistant but placed just over the floor tom pointed at the snare?
                        Basically... although "above the snare" is a general description - it can be moved out a little towards the rack tom, or over towards the hat a bit if needed. Same with the floor tom position - It's going to be over in that general area, and it's going to be aiming across a large part of the kit, but not always placed directly over the floor tom, or aimed straight at the snare or hi hat. Part of it is going to be dependent on the quirks of the player's individual setup preferences. The important things are to make sure you're getting good coverage of as much of the kit as possible (so angles and placement positions are important) and that you keep the snare and kick equi-distant, which can be a bit tricky.
                        **********

                        "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                        - George Carlin

                        "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                        - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                        "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                        - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                        • #27
                          For overheads I prefer Glyn Johns to XY or spaced pair.

                          Phil if you use the overheads for your primary picture of the drums you also time-allign the snare and kick to be in phase coherence?

                          if so would you mind saying a few words to the home recordists in our community here about the importance specifically on drums with all the many microphones to get everything in phase coherence.

                          __________________________________________________

                          Is This Thing On?

                          https://soundcloud.com/tom-hicks888

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                          • #28
                            And here's a picture to help you guys visualize the arrangement.


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                            Is This Thing On?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post
                              For overheads I prefer Glyn Johns to XY or spaced pair.

                              Phil if you use the overheads for your primary picture of the drums you also time-allign the snare and kick to be in phase coherence?

                              if so would you mind saying a few words to the home recordists in our community here about the importance specifically on drums with all the many microphones to get everything in phase coherence.
                              Any time you put up two or more microphones on a source, phase coherence is crucial. The more mics you put up, the more likely you are to have issues with polarity. Being aware of and trying to follow the three to one rule can help, although you might not always be able to follow it religiously when close-miking drums.

                              Coincidentally, we've got an article from Craig Anderton in the issue of Make Better Music (our bi-weekly e-zine) that goes out today on the importance of phase / polarity.

                              http://www.harmonycentral.com/articl...rity-integrity

                              If you don't already subscribe to MBM, you might want to consider it. It's free, and we don't spam you or sell our mailing list to anyone else...

                              https://www.harmonycentral.com/newsletter_signup





                              **********

                              "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                              - George Carlin

                              "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                              - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                              "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                              - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post
                                For overheads I prefer Glyn Johns to XY or spaced pair.

                                Phil if you use the overheads for your primary picture of the drums you also time-allign the snare and kick to be in phase coherence?

                                if so would you mind saying a few words to the home recordists in our community here about the importance specifically on drums with all the many microphones to get everything in phase coherence.
                                I've always preferred the spaced pair, as I've never really got results that I was 100% with doing the Glyn Johns spacing.

                                Its very rare that the kick or snare mics need to be time-aligned with the spaced pair method, but I always check phase on EVERYTHING before I hit "record". Especially given that I almost always use 2 mics for both kick and snare.

                                My "standard" setup:

                                Kick In: Sennheiser MD421
                                Kick Out: AKG D-12VR
                                Sn Top: Shure SM57
                                Sn Bot. Sennheiser MD441
                                HH: AKG 451b
                                Toms: MD421 Each
                                OH: Neumann KM-84s (matched pair)
                                Room: Either my 1963 Neumann U-67 Tube for Mono, or a matched pair of David Perlman TM-1s for stereo.
                                Last edited by Red Ant; 05-13-2019, 10:47 AM.
                                Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                                -- Vaclav Havel

                                The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                                -- Carl Sagan


                                Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                                -- Joseph Brodsky

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