Applying an Amp Sim (settling an argument with guitarist).

[shalini_singh]

I figured I'd post this here since I'm more likely to get a better amount of knowledge here (the amp forum is... well... we all know.)

 

Since I don't have the means to record a nice sounding amp with plenty of mics, my guitarist has been doing this:

 

Guitar > distortion pedal > PC.

 

Since the distortion pedal sound awful on it's own, I've processed it via Guitar Rig and various amp simulators - of course, this can make it difficult, since it's already got distortion and making it sound less muddy can be a chore.

 

I was thinking if he recorded clean (though able to hear himself distorted somehow) it would be easier to process. He insists that it would sound terrible. However, he then suggested that an amp simulator is ok if it's prerecorded.

 

He insists that:

 

Guitar > Amp Sim > PC

 

will produce something very different to

 

Guitar > PC > Amp Sim

 

Here's his argument:

 

 

"palm muting on a crunch guitar when you palm mute, the distortion creates that chug chug sounds because you're not letting the strings vibrate

if you record a clean guitar palm muting

it doesnt make that sound

it just shortens the note and its muffled"

 

(this was over MSN)

 

The only difference as far as I can see is the possible loss of audio quality on a prerecorded track - I'm thinking it's all in his head.

 

I'm willing to be open here... but I'm not sure what he's getting at... help?

.

[Zooey]

 

Guitar > Amp Sim > PC

 

 

If the amp simulator is software like Guitar Rig, can you please explain how this routing is even possible?

[Rug]

He's full of {censored}.

 

raw signal is raw signal, doesn't matter if it was produced on the fly or prerecorded. as long as impedance is matched (a half decent interface has you covered), there will be little audible difference in sound. Especially if he's used to the sound of dist -> amp sim.

 

and Zooey, maybe he's referring to a POD or something of the like?

[crowquill]

you're right, he's wrong

[t_e_l_e]

don't care who is wrong and who is right

get a DI, split the signal, so you have a DI track and the distortion-box track of the same playing

use the amp sim on the DI track and don't tell him and make it sound great and your done, don't need to argue any more...

 

best tip of all, record all your tracks together with a DI, so you have two tracks and all the flexibility afterwards using ampsims, reamping and so on

i do it all the time, one closed mic to the cab and on DI track

[Eddie]

Also consider getting Recabinet.

I've used it with Guitar Rig, POD Farm, TH1, and Waves GTR. After selecting the right Impulse Responses I've always liked to sound better with Recabinet.

[chris carter]

Honestly, if you can get the tone you want with the amp sim, why not track it that way? The noob-net is FULL of people who preach to always print stuff with as little processing as possible so that you can undo things. This is quite frankly silly. There are times you need to just commit because it forces you to make better decisions that have mojo. You want a record that sounds "technically" great? Or do you want a record with "mojo"? I'll take the mojo any and every day of the week.

 

That said, you are both right. If you track a clean guitar with him only monitoring the amp sim, and then you change the sim later, then what he plays might not match up very well. Remember, he's not just playing the guitar, he's plalying both the guitar and the amp (sim). Change the simulation and he'll play a little differently. So if you are going to go the monitoring rout, make sure it's VERY close to what you will actually use.

 

If it were me, I'd just track throught the simulation and screw the "clean" signal. If you are nervous, print both.

 

BTW - if he plays next to the speaker, the sim WILL actually affect how the strings vibrate, just like an amp would. I have used this trick very often. Just make sure you don't accidentally bang the neck of the guitar through your cone - or accidentally generate enough feedback to blow a tweeter

[jonPhillips]

There are times you need to just commit because it forces you to make better decisions that have mojo.

 

This

[Lee Flier]

 

Honestly, if you can get the tone you want with the amp sim, why not track it that way? The noob-net is FULL of people who preach to always print stuff with as little processing as possible so that you can undo things. This is quite frankly silly. There are times you need to just commit because it forces you to make better decisions that have mojo. You want a record that sounds "technically" great? Or do you want a record with "mojo"? I'll take the mojo any and every day of the week.

 

 

Yeah, this.

 

 

That said, you are both right. If you track a clean guitar with him only monitoring the amp sim, and then you change the sim later, then what he plays might not match up very well. Remember, he's not just playing the guitar, he's plalying both the guitar and the amp (sim). Change the simulation and he'll play a little differently. So if you are going to go the monitoring rout, make sure it's VERY close to what you will actually use.

 

 

This too.