school me on reverb

[t_e_l_e]

not in a way, what is this knob doing and whats that knob doing, but in a way how to achieve a certain sound goal

 

for me i would like to know this:

imagine large room, e.g. factory hall 20-30m long 20m width, fairly high roof, concrete walls.

now put a musician far away from the mic, think guitar amp, vocalist what ever.

you stand at the mic and listen, and what you hear is distant sounding, airy and live, some how panned to the left or right.

 

if you hit record you get this airy distant sound on tape (computer) nicely panned. while listening back, you hear, its in a great big room, the sound source seems far away, you can feel the distance and you can point into the direction where its coming from.

 

my only problem i don't have this big room to record.

 

when i record guitar mic closed to cab, pan it say hard left, lower the volume and add some light reverb, it still sounds like ok left ear, lower volume than the rest, but no airyness and distance.

 

i know what the knobs on reverb or vst-reverbs do, but i don't know how to achieve a sound goal with them, how to simulate a situation like above.

 

yeah i can think of some other things needed, double mic with a condenser mic, right eq settings and some other tricks.

 

any tricks are welcome, to make one recorded track distand sounding in the stereo image, if it can be done, if not, explain why i need to record in a big room to achieve the sound

[SomeoneYouKnew]

 

pan it say hard left

I seem to get the best "image" out of temporal effect by panning "somewhat" to one side with the dry signal, not hard to the side. I pan the return from the delay or reverb (all effect, no dry signal) an equal amount to the opposite side.

 

Panning too wide sounds fake.

Panning too narrow sounds constricted.

 

If the reverb is too loud, it sounds fake.

If you just barely notice the reverb, it seems more real.

[CME]

 

when i record guitar mic closed to cab......

 

 

Maybe back the mic off a bit also. Maybe not terribly far, but at least a foot or so, will probably help. Even in a less than ideal room you shouldn't pick up too much room sound. Experimentation will be the key. IMO sticking a mic right up to the grill of a speaker cab is always gonna have a "in your ear" sound. So by moving it back a bit you'll get rid of the "up closeness" and when you add reverb it will sound more natural.

[WRGKMC]

One common technique is to doubble mic the amp and pand the two tracks differently. Have the track on the right dry/dryer than the one on the left That has more reverb. You can also use variable pan settings like two on the right with one 80% panned and the other 30% panned right, then have your other guitar with tha same panning to the left.

 

It does get tougher to add reverb as you get more instruments in the mix that might mask the reverb swell and you need to use the right reverb and EQ settings for the job.

 

Sometimes putting a reverb in an aux bus can do wonders too if you use a good stereo reverb then send the guitar tracks after you have a good stereo spread on them. I wouldnt rule out using Chorus or Echo either. Figuring out the beats per minuite of a song can help with tuning all three in properly too. Echo sounds best when its either on the beat of a multiple of the beat like 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 1/8, 1/16 etc. If you keep doubbleing the speed of an echo it eventually becomes reverb. You can use the beat of the song as a guide in selecting a room size that works best. Chorus is simular except it has a LFO added. You can select the time on most of them too.

 

And as other mentioned, unless you're using reverb as a special effect, you normally want to hear less of it then more. The type of music you're using it for is the most important thing though. If you dont have silence between notes like you do in slower songs, then reverb just gets burried.

 

If you have a guitar plugging notes like a machine gun, the only time you hear that reverb is when the gun stops and everyone is dead. Then you hear the reverb hang out there. Its like an old western where The guy in the canyon shoots his gun. you dont hear the reverb till after he's shot and the reverb cuts through the silence afterwards.

 

The other option is to have the straight guitar and reverb guitar panned differently so one ear hears the straight and the other the reverb.

[t_e_l_e]

thx for all the tips

 

panning the wet part of a track differently then the dry part, i never thought of that

now that you mentioned it, its the most logical thing, that the reverb comes from the "opposit" direction then the original source and that builds space.

i wonder why i didn't came up with this myself.

 

will also try the other things. we record only with click, so it will be easy to set an echo on the tempo of the song.

 

i keep you posted how my experiments work

thx in the meanwhile

[WRGKMC]

thx for all the tips panning the wet part of a track differently then the dry part, i never thought of that now that you mentioned it, its the most logical thing, that the reverb comes from the "opposit" direction then the original source and that builds space. i wonder why i didn't came up with this myself. will also try the other things. we record only with click, so it will be easy to set an echo on the tempo of the song. i keep you posted how my experiments work thx in the meanwhile

 

The best advice I can give you for mixing is to close your eyes and visualize yourself listening to an actual band playing in the center of a large room. You stand out front and hear the main loud direct music coming at you from the stage, say a guitar on the right, drums, bass, and vocals fairly centered, the maybe another guitar of keys left stage. Then you have all the reverb that encapsulates the room. Now after you picture that slowlu imagine yourself walking around the band and how you hear the music differently. Say you hear side of the guitar amp on your right and the echo off the wall to the left, continue around and you're in back of the drummer and hear nothing but the thud of the back of the guitar cabs and mostly reverb off the far wall, continue around and its the other guitarist/keyboard. You hear the cab on the left and the echo on the right. Then you're back in front of the band.

 

You can practice this technique with any instrument including playing the instrument yourself and having your amp point different directions and having different building you're playing in from a small room, to the grand canyon. Weather people know it or not, sound preformance visualization is the key to mixing believe it or not. How realistic you can make those pictures you visualize is where all the hard work comes in.

[Phil O'Keefe]

t_e_l_e, make sure you experiment with the reverb's predelay and diffusion controls. In a room the size you're describing, and when you're standing several meters away from the sound source, there is going to be a delay between when the first note sounds, and when the reverb sets in afterward. I'd recommend trying reverb predelay times in the 20-75ms range, and high diffusion, and see if that helps with the realism / sound you're looking for.

 

Also, especially if the mix is "busy", try bandpass EQ on the reverb return. In other words, use high pass and low pass filters to kill off below about 500Hz and above about 8kHz on the reverb's output.

 

Panning the signal "into" the reverb can help with placement - use a stereo aux send into a stereo reverb, and pan the aux to the same general placement where you have the track itself panned. Then feel free to mess around with the reverb return's panning - panning it hard L/R, or inwards a bit, or even "counter-panning" it opposite where the dry track is panned.

[UstadKhanAli]

Two mics, one close, one far. Add reverb to the far one. Should sound more realistic than adding reverb to the close-miced one.