New Royer...

[Phil O'Keefe]

http://www.harmonycentral.com/blogs/News-RoyerLabs/2010/08/17/royer-labs-debuts-r-101-ribbon-microphone

 

Looks interesting.

[CME]

Very interesting indeed. Esp that price. $899. Wonder what the street price will be?

 

Oh just searched. $799. Def have to check it out.

[danbronson]

Allow me to be the first to ask, how does it compare sonically to the R-121?

[danbronson]

Sort of an answer to my own question...

 

From the Royer website, all specs look almost identical except:

 

R-101

 

R-121

 

So, I guess it will sound darker.

[MrJoshua]

It looks very interesting. Especially the pricetag...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Sort of an answer to my own question... From the Royer website, all specs look almost identical except: R-101 R-121 So, I guess it will sound darker.

 

Hard to tell for sure until we get a chance to hear them side by side. From the frequency specs, it would seem to be. Not a heck of a lot through. A lot of it looks like peaks in slightly different areas... 50Hz instead of 100Hz. Less in the 8-10kHz range. More in the 500Hz-1kHz range. Hard to tell, but it looks like the 101 may have a smidge more at the top in the 13-20kHz region. That gives us some clues, but as to how that translates to the actual sound of the mic, the jury's out until we hear it.

 

But at $799 street, and with a Royer badge on it, I bet a lot of people are going to want to check it out.

[MrJoshua]

But at $799 street, and with a Royer badge on it, I bet a lot of people are going to want to check it out.

 

I've never used one of the Royer ribbon mics, but I'm certainly a fan of the Mojave condensors from his other company.

 

I'm going to have to think about this one, though. I have six ribbon mics already...

[WRGKMC]

Wish I had the money for a ribbon. I just cant justify the expence at this point. I'm temped to buy one of those budget import ribbon mics just to mess around with, but I havent heard a whole lot of feedback on them. I'm wondering if anyones tried these Nadys or simular mics and can give me their opinion based on actually trying the lower end stuff, not just guessing one how crummy they might be. http://www.abesofmaine.com/itemB.do?item=NADRSM4&id=NADRSM4&l=FROOGLE

[chris carter]

Wish I had the money for a ribbon. I just cant justify the expence at this point. I'm temped to buy one of those budget import ribbon mics just to mess around with, but I havent heard a whole lot of feedback on them. I'm wondering if anyones tried these Nadys or simular mics and can give me their opinion based on actually trying the lower end stuff, not just guessing one how crummy they might be. http://www.abesofmaine.com/itemB.do?item=NADRSM4&id=NADRSM4&l=FROOGLE

 

I have a 121 knockoff called a TNC ACM3 http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/TnC-Audio/ACM-3. Bought it in a group buy for $50. Done recordings with it next to a 121 and you seriously have to try hard to notice the difference. It kills. I wish I'd bought two

[CME]

I have a cheap Nady I bought for like $90 that I like. I still want to try a "nicer" one and see how "bad" it may be, because IMO it sounds pretty good. And I def have this one on my "wishlist".

[MrJoshua]

I don't have any Nady mics, but I do have a pair of the Cascade Fathead II mics with the Lundahl transformer option and I like them quite a bit. They're pretty reasonably priced, especially if you get them with the standard transformer. Useful mics. The ShinyBox 46MX is another decently-priced solid ribbon mic.

[WRGKMC]

I may have to try one just for the fun of it. The wife wont squalk too much if I blow $50 on one.

 

I used to have some old antique Elvis/Sinatra type ribbons like 30 years ago. They were pretty beat up and didnt sound very good then. I guess I should have held onto them and restored them They'd be worth a mint now. I likely sold them at a flea market where I got them from. Flea markets were the precursor to Ebay and I spent quite a few years buying and selling music equipment at them. I was always getting cool stuff for peanuts there restoring it and reselling to make a buck.

 

In the last few years the cost for an import has hit bottom. I realize they are nothing like the real deal, but like anything variety is good for the tool box.

 

What would you guys say the biggest difference between a ribbion and a large diaphram condencer is? If you had one of each in comperable price ranges runing side by side, is there more open space, more room sound, more focus or less of the above. Also where would you mainly use them and can they handel high db levels.

 

I'm still on a quest to find a good vocal mic for recording my voice. I have a very unique voice and style, probibly obtained from singing through junk PA's for so many years. I can nail the Joe Walsh type voice, and I can do the rocked out thing too. I have a very wide range of singing and can do very high falsettos well. I can also sing the deep full ranged Tim Curry type stuff too so I usually have to swap mics till I find something that fits the song. I often use a dynamic mic because I use alot of mic technique using proxcimity and angleing to even up the notes.

 

A large diaphram has practically no proxcimity responce. I have retrained myself to use them but it still isnt what I'm looking for. An SM57 on the other hand is the opposite of a condencer and requires too much focus to maintain even sound.

 

I suppose I'll just have to get a ribbon to see if it gets me closer to what I'm looking for. If it were Live work I know what works best for my voice but something like a Beta 58 like I normally use sounds pretty crappy recording. The feedback frequencies it rejects makes it sound kinda megaphone and I have enough mids in my voice to start with.

 

Anyway, just curious. Dont mean to stray too far from Phils original post, but It involves Ribbons in general. I'm sure alot of others are curious about ribbons as well.

[CME]

IMO ribbons and LDC's are almost opposites. Not really as they both do the same thing, but typically ribbons have proximity affect and a smooth high end. In fact I think most, excluding the newer active ones, have a high end roll off above 10-12k. I've heard they pick up sound a lot like our ears do. Def try one out if you can.

 

As far as damaging them, keep them away from anything with plosives. Most can handle somewhat high SPL's they just can't handle sudden bursts of air. So def use a pop filter when using it for vocals. Shure recently bought Crowley and Tripp, which had developed a material for ribbons called roswellite that is nearly indestructable, but for everything else, use caution.

[WRGKMC]

Thanks, CME. From your description, it confirms what I though about it having some proxcimity factor there to work with. It may be just the ticket to what I might need. I'll likely buy a cheapie and see if I can work it. Even if The quality isnt great, I'll know I'm on the right path. No sence in seeking something better if it doesnt get me there. The other guitarist I record with is in the process of building up his home studio. If its not what I need it may be for him.

 

I rely heavily on mic technique to put my vocals across, in fact when I get compliments singing live I know its why others think I have a good voice cause it sure as hell isnt alot to do with tone.

 

I can hold good pitch and I never need to use auto tuning, but without the ability to get more bass by getting closer to the mic my voice thins out too much in the upper ranges recording. Going from clean to driven is a big deal too. I can sing very loud doing both as well.

 

Again its due to years of having to get your voice heard through a crappy House PA system and adjusting your voice and tone to get maximum fidelity. Live its only a matter of getting closer by an inch or so, but recording with a high gain preamp that inch turns into a foot. Condencers just feel unnatureal and I usually go for a dynamic in most cases. if the ribbon doesnt work Out i may just get an SM7 or a Senheiser 421. I used to use a Senheiser in analog studios back in the 80s and know it should do what I want.

 

Thanks again.

[Phil O'Keefe]

What would you guys say the biggest difference between a ribbion and a large diaphram condencer is? If you had one of each in comperable price ranges runing side by side, is there more open space, more room sound, more focus or less of the above. Also where would you mainly use them and can they handel high db levels.

 

Condensers and ribbons both tend to be fairly "fast" on transients. Condensers tend to sound brighter and more open, while ribbons can sometimes sound darker; many (but not all) do indeed have limited high frequency response above 10 kHz. Some people describe the good ones as sounding "more natural". Another often used adjective for ribbons is "smooth".

 

The "natural" polar pattern for a ribbon mic is bi-directional (figure 8), and they exhibit near perfect cancellation from the sides - which can be very useful in some situations. However, not all ribbon mikes are bi-directional. One of my favorite ribbons (my first call mic on guitar cabinets and saxophone; also great on drum overheads), the Beyer M160, is a hypercardioid. Other companies have made cardioid ribbons mikes... but the vast majority of ribbons out there are bi-directional.

 

Of course, a bi-directional mic will pick up a lot more of what is going on "behind" it than a cardioid mic will, so yes, they tend to pick up a lot of "room sound". Again, that can be useful in some situations (Blumlein mic technique anyone?) but for many home studio folks with less than good sounding rooms, it can often be a problem.... nothing a little behind the mic baffling can't address - at least when doing vocals.

 

Where do I tend to use them? Guitar cabs. Sax. Occasionally on drum overheads. Fiddle. Drum room mikes quite frequently. Banjo. On amps with a harp mic running into them. Vocals, but very rarely. Basically anything with fast transients and / or that leans towards sounding harsh on the highs that I want to tame a bit, or any time I want a particularly warm and smooth sound.

 

REALLY high SPL's are something I normally try not to subject my ribbon mikes to, although a few of them are definitely designed to take it better than a few of my other ones... but the one thing that will destroy a ribbon mic's ribbon faster than anything is wind blasts. NEVER "blow" into a ribbon mic to "see if it's on". Use a good pop filter if you are planning on singing into it. Protect it from blasts of air... or be prepared to have it re-ribboned.

[witesol]

that mic does indeed look desirable..

 

thanks for the tip Phil

[WRGKMC]

Very informative Phil, Thanks

[Lee Knight]

One app I love ribbons on is acoustic guitar. When you're going for that natural in the room sound. The "haven't-changed-the stings-in-a-while" vibe. A ribbon has a real lo key kind of feel to it.

 

And for the X style dual fig. 8 trick for singing acoustic guitarists, it's great to use a couple ribbons for a natural vibe.

[WRGKMC]

Well my studio is a dead room. It was built for sound proofing. Sound travels mostly in one direction and gets absorbed and is simular to playing outdoors.

 

Any reverb is added after tracking so I dont know how the mic will sound in there. In a way having the room fairly dead is good because I dont have the room sound competing with reverbs adding wierd resonance bumps. I can however get some super dry recordings playing live with the band. This is cool for some stuff because I dont have all the reflective bleedover.

 

I have since added some reflective surfaces but I still need to add more. The drummer and I have been thinking about using that white masonite stuff they use in bathrooms in back of the drum set to add reflectivity to liven up the sound a bit.

 

I'm curious how a ribbon muc will work in this environment. I would guess it will sound darker then it will in a reflective room.

[MrJoshua]

Well, I should have one of the new Royers next week. I'll post a review after I've had some time to try it out.

[Kerouac]

If it's anywhere near as good as my Mojave I am IN.

[MrJoshua]

My new R-101 arrived yesterday. I will have a chance to try it out this weekend - possibly as soon as tomorrow. I'm planning on using it as a room mic for drums, on electric guitar, possibly on an acoustic guitar, and I might try it on vocals as well since it will just be a demo of one of my songs. I'll post a review in the next week or so after I have a chance to work with it some.

 

I will say that the first impression on taking it out of the case is quite nice. It's a solid-feeling microphone. It comes with a shockmount.

 

It's interesting to note that one of the "suggested uses" on the quick start guide that came with the mic is kick drum, although they say you should read the full manual for placement information before using it this way. I'm not sure I'd want to try it on kick drum - the RE20 does such a good job there that I'm not really looking for other options right now, and I'm pretty leery of using a ribbon in such a high-SPL situation anyway. Especially one that tends to move that much air.

 

Also interesting is how dense the mic screen is. Their literature touts this as a feature, talking about increased protection from wind blasts. You can't see through the screen at all - it has at least two layers and when holding it up in front of a light it looks like a solid mass. It will be interesting to find out how this sounds.

 

More to come.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I eagerly await your thoughts!

[MrJoshua]

OK, I've had a chance to try the R-101 as a room mic from drums, on electric guitar, and on vocals. Here's what I think so far.

 

As expected, the mic has a rich midrange and captures low and mid frequencies well. It does not have a lot of high end to it - the roll off seems a little more pronounced than some of the other ribbons I own, but not quite as pronounced as others, so I suppose it's about average.

 

For the drum room I plugged it into the Groove Tubes SuPRE and recorded myself playing my kit (a Pearl Export with Ludwig Supraphonic snare). It captures the full sound of the kit well, and the cymbals are present without being harsh. All in all, I can see this mic getting some use for this purpose in the future. It also takes EQ well so adding a little more high end to let the cymbals have a touch more presence is no problem. It sounds like ... well, it sounds like me playing my kit. This mic doesn't seem to "add" much to the sound - it isn't going to polish something up for you, but it also doesn't take anything away except for the high end rolloff, which is to be expected.

 

Next, I put it about six inches in front of an Avatar 2x12 guitar cab (I like to use a little distance when recording this cab because it has two different speakers in it and they sound slightly different, and blend well) and ran it into a Great River MP-500NV preamp. I plugged in Ibanez double-humbucker guitar into my Orange Tiny Terror and turned up the gain, and my immediate impression is that this is going to be a mic I reach for quite a lot on heavier guitar parts. I'm not sure it has enough high end to capture the twang of a cleaner Telecaster sound the way I like, but some EQ may fix that. I'll find out the next time I record a song like that. For now I was recording a rock song with moderate amounts of distortion, and this mic shines. The mids are strong, the highs roll off right where you want them to for rock guitars... it sounds like rock and roll to me. Again, it isn't going to add magic if it isn't there already, but it will certainly let you capture a very good guitar tone.

 

Finally, I used the R-101 through a Neve Portico preamp to lay down a vocal scratch track. It's ... well, it isn't going to be a mic I reach for very often on vocals. I can see where with the right voice it would be an option, but my voice is not the right voice. I have a baritone voice and need some help cutting through most of the time, and my voice gets muddled easily and lost in the mix. This mic reminds me of how I feel singing through the SM-7b - maybe it works for others, but it doesn't go well with my voice. It's usable, and with some EQ work I can get an acceptable sound, but I don't like having to do heavy EQ work and really carve things up in order to get the sound good. I'd much prefer to START with a good sound, then do just enough EQ to polish up or help things fit right. But really, this is similar to how I've felt every time I've tried a ribbon mic on my voice, so it's about what I expected.

 

In summary ... this mic is pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. It sounds like a good ribbon mic, with the strengths and weaknesses that go along with that. It feels like a good, solid mic, it sounds like what you're recording, it takes EQ well... I think it may have a slight edge over my ShinyBox 46MXC ribbon on guitar cabs because it has a bit of a midrange bump that sounds good on electrics, but we'll see how that goes as I have more time to get used to the mic and use it on more sessions.

 

I'm looking forward to using combinations of the R-101, the Mojave MA-201fet, and the ubiquitous SM-57 on guitar cabs in the future. I think it will be a solid addition to my mic locker and I'm pleased with the purchase.

[danbronson]

Cool, thanks for the review. Now you just need to post clips and your duties will be fulfilled.