Members Anderton Posted December 8, 2018 Members Share Posted December 8, 2018 I was on the SF Chapter's board, and voted religiously for years. Somehow I just can't muster the interest to be a part of NARAS. I haven't watched the Grammys in years. It would be one thing if I was just out of touch, but it seems I'm not alone. Like there's this article about the most overhyped Grammy nominations. Which in itself is click bait. Who's this person to decide what is and is not overhyped? And...who cares? So here's my suggestion: The Best New Music Awards. Musicians in various genres would choose the new, fresh artists they feel best represented that genre during the past year. Hip hop guys would say "if you hate hip-hop, listen to this music, is effing awesome." Rock folks would say "you think rock and roll has nothing new to offer, listen to this music." EDMers would say "if you think this is all about kids pushing buttons in their parents' bedrooms, then check this out." This self-congratulatory "we're so great" crap gets really old. Let's see who's doing something new and different, according to their peers. I would watch that show for sure. Would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 8, 2018 Members Share Posted December 8, 2018 IMHO the Emmys, Oscars and other self-award shows tend to gravitate more to promotion and advertisement than awards of actual merit. I guess when an industry awards itself, it's impossible to be impartial and favoritism and money enter the judging process. I lost interest in them. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 This self-congratulatory "we're so great" crap gets really old. Let's see who's doing something new and different, according to their peers. I would watch that show for sure. Would you? Yeah, probably, because it would probably be more music-focused and less music industry focused... but the suits are never going to go for that Craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 11, 2018 Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 IMHO the Emmys, Oscars and other self-award shows tend to gravitate more to promotion and advertisement than awards of actual merit. I guess when an industry awards itself, it's impossible to be impartial and favoritism and money enter the judging process. I lost interest in them. Insights and incites by Notes The problem with this assessment is that the Oscars, in particular, are constantly derided for only recognizing "art" type movies and not what is generally popular. If they were all about promotion and advertisement, then the latest Marvel Comics blockbuster would win "Best Picture" every year. Every industry has their "awards" convention. The only real difference is that the Oscars, Emmys and Grammys are televised. But my guess is that the National Association of Realtors annual convention and awards are just as self-congratulatory. I have no problem with any industry that wants to recognize itself. To the degree that the Oscars are the cinematographers nominating the candidates for Best Cinematography, costume designers for Best Costume Design, etc. and then the winners selected by people who all work in the industry, then I not only don't have a problem with it but think it makes more sense then things like the "Peoples Choice Awards" which are already reflected in sales figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 11, 2018 Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 I respectfully disagree, Marvel movies don't need the advertisement. The Oscar best picture goes to films that need to make more money. "Art" movies fall into that category. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 11, 2018 Members Share Posted December 11, 2018 Lest we forget, the Grammys jumped the shark ... 1989 - best heavy metal Grammy to Jethro Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted December 12, 2018 Members Share Posted December 12, 2018 Ok, to see what the fuss is about (since I pay next to zero attention to the Grammy's each year) - here's the top winners for Album of the Year 2018 - 1998 2017 Bruno Mars for 24K Magic2016 Adele for 252015 Taylor Swift for 19892014 Beck for Morning Phase2013 Daft Punk for Random Access Memories2012 Mumford & Sons for Babel2011 Adele for 212010 Arcade Fire for The Suburbs2009 Taylor Swift for Fearless2008 Robert Plant and Alison Krauss for Raising Sand2007 Herbie Hancock for River: The Joni Letters2006 Dixie Chicks for Taking The Long Way2005 U2 for How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb2004 Ray Charles & Various for Genius Loves Company2003 OutKast for Speakerboxxx/The Love Below2002 Norah Jones for Come Away With Me2001 various for O Brother, Where Art Thou?2000 Steely Dan for Two Against Nature1999 Santana for Supernatural1998 Lauryn Hill for The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill I certainly don't know enough about the thousands upon thousands of albums and artists out there to be able to say if these choices are "objective" or "commercial" or whatever. There do seem to be a few tribute-type, or maybe call them "lifetime achievement" type winners sprinkled in there. Sure are a few on there I admire, no question. I can live with this. There's too much music production and diversity to boil it all down on the purely artistic level. So let the industry perspective cull the field - and sure, everyone gripe, gripe, gripe, and judge, judge, judge, the judges. That's the static to me - all the griping. Did we think music somehow still thrives in some non-commercial elysium of pure art and arteests?? The awards ain't gospel and can't be. At least the overall endeavor of songs and albums and artists is celebrated and acknowledged. Gripers gonna gripe. nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 13, 2018 Members Share Posted December 13, 2018 When everyone knows it was The Archies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 13, 2018 Members Share Posted December 13, 2018 I don't gripe, just notice and treat them and don't take them seriously. I don't watch, but then I haven't watched any broadcast or cable TV in over 25 years - with the exception of rented movies in the mail from Netflix (that's the only time the TV goes on). Promotion is promotion, and whenever an industry awards itself, sooner or later it will be taken over by promotion. As long as you understand that, you won't get upset over who was snubbed and who won. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted December 14, 2018 Members Share Posted December 14, 2018 I don't gripe, just notice and treat them and don't take them seriously. I don't watch, but then I haven't watched any broadcast or cable TV in over 25 years - with the exception of rented movies in the mail from Netflix (that's the only time the TV goes on). Promotion is promotion, and whenever an industry awards itself, sooner or later it will be taken over by promotion. As long as you understand that, you won't get upset over who was snubbed and who won. Insights and incites by Notes Notes, I always appreciate your comments and your lifelong dedication to your art, no question. So, in all honesty, I still have to ask - what do you mean, "taken over by promotion"? And what's wrong with an industry "awarding itself"? Industries of all sorts have awards from medicine to auto design to literature to attorneys to composers to architects to retail stores to manufacturers to electronics to just about every industry under the sun. It just seems to me to be asking the impossible, to have awards of these sorts that somehow award on some purely "objective" or artistic or pure-quality valuation. There is no existing, meaningful consensus on such values - any choice would be at least as controversial and resented as any industry-promotional-biased choice would be. So if an industry sticks to the commercial winners as a basic group from which "the best" of this and that sub-classification is chosen - I think that has some meaning, and has the best chance of carrying some sort of meaning to the population. Surely more meaning than, say, a panel of academics would carry to the general population. Or a popular vote which would be truly the lowest common denominator. Or a "most sales dollars wins" approach. Craig's idea is interesting, although I don't know how a group of artists would be selected out to do the voting. There's got to be some criteria....the NFL Pro Bowl has an interesting approach. The players are selected by three groups - each group having 1/3 weight in the process. The groups are coaches, players, and whichever fans log on and vote online. And sure enough, there's always a firestorm of criticism regarding who was selected, who was neglected, and the process itself. But it seems an honest attempt to give the public some say, but leaving the choices basically up to the actual players and coaches when it's all tallied up. But I don't know how you could do that with musicians... I'm a glass-half-full type, as is probably obvious. It's my continual instinct that change is best served by building up the good that's there, rather than tearing down good and bad alike and building some new nirvana out of someone's current idealistic speculations. But I'm out of step with the times, clearly.... nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 14, 2018 Members Share Posted December 14, 2018 Perhaps I'm too cynical. I've seen so many what I consider pedestrian, unpopular, and undeserving awards given that suddenly recoup their losses and start earning money over the years I've been on the planet that I can't help come to that conclusion. Look at the list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy...ng_of_the_Year A few Best Songs???? Battle Of New Orleans? Games People Play? You've Got A Friend? Send In The Clowns? Bette Davis Eyes? We Are The World? That's What Friends Are For? Somewhere Out There? Don't Worry, Be Happy? Tears In Heaven? Kiss From A Rose? Don't Know Why? Not Ready To Make Nice? Rolling In The Deep? Royals? and I could have included more. Some of them are nice songs, but IMHO none of them are the best of the best. I don't know. Perhaps I'm out of touch with reality. Perhaps I'm listening with musician's ears and the Grammy folks are assessing the taste of the general public. Perhaps I really don't know what makes a good song, after all I've never written what I consider a good song (but I don't think I could do worse than Battle of New Orleans). I also know millions of dollars are spent promoting songs. I know there is temptation to buy votes. If someone came to me and said, "I'll give you $10,000 to vote for my song." I'd be tempted. I'd probably be foolish and turn the offer down, but others wouldn't. Look at the people in so called health groups that used to tell us smoking cigarettes was good for us in the 1950s because they were paid to do so by the tobacco companies. That kind of thing has gone on forever and will go on forever. I'm sure I could be wrong about this, but someone would have to show me I'm wrong before I change my mind. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 16, 2018 Members Share Posted December 16, 2018 Besides for out and out bribes, you get one person thinking that "John Doe" is a good guy, a nice songwriter, and it's about time he gets recognized. And even though is isn't the best song of the year, it wins. A related incident. I long suspected that there was intentional advertising in the awards. Back in the early to mid 1980s this pretty much confirmed it to me. There was a decent biopic about Wolfgang Mozart released called Amadeus. We never called Mr. Mozart by his middle name before the movie, but that's besides the point. The movie was released, but nobody wanted to see it. It was losing money. I guess Mozart didn't win the interest of the general public. The movie was pulled after a lackluster first run. Then, despite the fact that it was a decent movie, but certainly not a great one it wins the "Best Picture" Oscar. Then it gets re-released and people flock to see the "best picture" and it turns a tidy profit. Now if that isn't promotion, what is? This is why to me an industry awarding itself honors is invalid. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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