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Songwriting - music or lyrics?


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Lyrics...I have an MA in English and am a long time writer of poetry,

Not bragging, but when I was in Grad school I was known by my College Profs as ‘the darling of the English Dept’....I hung out with these guys, a good deal of them were musicians.

 

After class, late at night we would hang out and jam..they lived in an Artists/Writers colony in Lawrenceville,

NJ very near to my Alma Mater.

Most of the music was we did together was Folk Rock, we critiqued each other’s lyrics, I was also doing a lot of solo gigs, just me and my 12 string, at my Alma Mater as well as Princeton Univ. Rider University, and a Community College playing some covers, Jackson Browne, Less complex Beatles tubes, Tom Rush, etc.

 

So much of my lyrical content was initially delivered via 4-6 chords...I was a pretty popular act but I always felt lyrics alone weren’t doing it for me.

 

I then hooked up with a guy that accompanied on guitar and did vocal harmonies...he did so much to my original tunes, adding a subtle chord change,or progression that would so ‘wow’ me and change my mundane chord pattern (s)into something dynamic, fresh and new.

 

I think if you find the right combo of lyricist/ musician arranger..it is a Golden Moment

 

After College, Folk Rock was losing its original mystique, and I wanted to Rock my áss off like I did in my Garage Band days...

From 1980 to 1990 I played in a Rock /Reggae Bar Band..we did originals, The Police , Marley etc.

My buddy joined us on occasion, always adding his magic to my lyrics as well as the other songwriter in our band.

 

We still collaborate a few times a year...even though we live geographically., miles apart.

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I can't write anything but text, but I'm flummoxed by people (usually quoted in magazine interviews) who start with a riff, or a drum loop, without having any lyrics in mind, and write a song from that. I guess in this case, it's neither the music or the lyrics that's the starter, it's the vibe.

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Luke' date=' do you write your lyrics first and have them put into song, or can you take a pre-written melody and write lyrics for it - or do you do both, and if so, which do you prefer? [/quote']

 

I usually start with a phrase, and pick up an acoustic and take it from there...once I get a full verse, I start working on the bridge chords, ( this is the weakest link of the composition chain), and where re my collaborator shines if he is available..

After getting the bridge chords finished, I will write lyrics for the bridge as well as additional verses.

Sometimes it takes a few hours, sometimes years to finish a song..

 

I’m pretty shy about sharing my compositions on line, but I do remember one time I put up some of the lyrics to a newly minted song (that I wrote for my wife) here on SSS years ago ...with some trepidation...

 

Tim Beck, who is a regular here, was effusive in his praise of the lyrics and that was a real moment for me,

 

You probably don’t remember doing it Tim, but..thank you again for the vote of confidence...

 

I think I shared some lyrics with dear Booshy from The Netherlands by PM years ago too.

 

Like a lot of songwriters..I am my own worst critic.

 

I can’t write, for the life of me, lyrics for a prewritten music...unless it is a parody or a humorous song ala weird Al Yankovich.

 

BTW, Phil...I’ve seen Alamo Joe write some pretty nice and catchy lyrics to pre-written music when a group of guys were doing collaborations under the name of ‘The Vomiteers’

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I've got literally hundreds of instrumental ideas sketched out in my DAW.

 

I've got a couple dozen sets of lyrics with no music.

 

Getting the music and the lyrics to dance together is like trying to get 10 year-olds to dance together and take it seriously....

 

Sometimes, luckily, the lyrics and the music arrive together - usually just a lyric phrase and a melody line and a few chords or riff. I'll typically have absolutely no idea where the song is actually going - I follow these "inspirations" down the psychic rabbit hole where sometimes I land in a pile of crap, sometimes I drift softly down into a place I quite like.

 

But to take completed lyrics and then put them to music (like Sir Elton does so well)...I almost always feel like I have to dumb down the music side to get it to work.

 

It seems to me to be quite common that artists favor the lyrical side or the musical side. With the rare exceptions, of course. It makes so much sense to me that it's songwriting duos that seem so often to be able to work both aspects to the max.

 

nat

 

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Depending on whether my wife writes the lyrics, or I do, is the impetus for ease or otherwise. My wife is a published poet and writes excellent works. I can't always find music in me for them, but, occasionally I can just sit down and it happens. We've been at it 31 years together. When I write songs, more often than not music on guitar or piano always comes first. I am inspired by movement and sounds.

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BTW, Phil...I’ve seen Alamo Joe write some pretty nice and catchy lyrics to pre-written music when a group of guys were doing collaborations under the name of ‘The Vomiteers’

 

We had some great feedback and encouragement that really helped move things along........:cool03:

 

And thanks much Luke...In case I forgot to thank you for that back in the day....

 

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We had some great feedback and encouragement that really helped move things along........:cool03:

 

And thanks much Luke...In case I forgot to thank you for that back in the day....

 

De nada , AJ..and you did thank me, especially when I got more specific in some areas of the suggestions.

 

you guys had some kind of chemistry going, ..it was in it’s infancy, but guys were/are a talented lot.

 

Sir Bieke was the Maestro and the glue...he squeezed the collective and creative juice out of the lot of you misfits.👍

 

 

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De nada , AJ..and you did thank me, especially when I got more specific in some areas of the suggestions.

 

you guys had some kind of chemistry going, ..it was in it’s infancy, but guys were/are a talented lot.

 

Sir Bieke was the Maestro and the glue...he squeezed the collective and creative juice out of the lot of you misfits.👍

 

 

Chemistry...I dunno...More like Alchemy.....Less science and more mystic I think....

 

Bieke is a shaman/genius in everything it takes to pull stuff together and a endless font of material.

 

I spent most of my time waiting to hear what Dinkleberg was going to weave into it all.

 

He was the real star IMHO.

 

As far as being a Misfit....Guilty as charged LT.

 

Cuff me and open the barrel of KY.

 

Have your way with me once again Beloved...For the Good times...

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Good lyrics are rare' date=' costly,[/b'] and take a lot of soul-mining to bring to the surface.

 

Good music is similar, but for me, easier to get to (it's still work, 'tho.)

 

But good music with good lyrics...all the stars must align.

 

nat

 

Nat Whilk II

 

I agree about the difficulty of writing good lyrics. I have never understood exactly what a soul is though.

People talk about it a lot.

 

There is one part of music I think is as just as rare & precious as great lyrics -- great orchestration.

Some of the old Lieber & Stoller records had incredible orchestration. Gil Evans & Miles Davis,

some Dinah Washington records, some Bossa Nova.

 

I am not sure what happened. But if you listen to some of the recent VERVE remix records --

it may be coming back.

--

 

Luke 17: I'm a lawyer - I wrote for a living for decades. I was good at it - not like other

lawyers. Not Wallace Stevens good - but damned good.

 

Other lawyers hired me to write their briefs because I did NOT write like a lawyer.

I tried to fling off a few aphorisms the judges' young law clerks would quote -

along w/ solid law. I would find them in the classics.

 

I had a few poems published in the process. Had 3 plays staged too. I even got to read at

one night City Lights Book Store.

 

Song Lyrics: You can pilfer some dazzling lines & couplets from great poets.

You rewrite them to fit the song obiously.

 

I can't find a subject for a song in the classics.

For that - I use my playwright's ear and listen to people talk.

I listen - wherever I can hear thm w/ their guard down.

 

Today, you hear people gabbing all the time on their stupid cell phones--

streams of gold for playwrights & song lyricists.

 

NAT WHILK II (is great orchestration coming back?)

 

kgmW9JNUwpY

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Song Lyrics: You can pilfer some dazzling lines & couplets from great poets.

You can, but why? To each their own I guess, but I will never understand plagiarizing and pretending it's not. My stuff may not be great, but it has to at least be mine... anyway...

 

For my lyrics are far easier, but I am a writer and while I know some basics, by no means a musician, so both coming up with and then figuring out how to play the music is far harder. I have a ton of lyrics, but few with the music worked out.

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Chord changes and melodies come easily to me. My lyrics always seem to be trite or labored. Which has always been frustrating for me as writing, in general, comes pretty easily for me. I consider myself good with words, but putting them into lyric form and setting them to music and my lyrics always sound like some bad High School Musical.

 

My best songs have always been with someone else writing the lyrics.

 

 

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Music is easy, lyrics far harder. As a writer, words (stories and poems) pour out quite easily but Lyrics are not poetry. I lost count of the number of times someone has said "I can write lyrics" and I give them a track and they come back with a bloody poem.

 

Nowadays I just do it myself, start with a line from life like say, (totally off the top of my head here):-

ballady "Did you think it would change how I feel?"

or rocky "I ain't your ride home tonite"

and it will seed something.

 

 

 

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Good lyrics are rare, costly, and take a lot of soul-mining to bring to the surface.

 

Good music is similar, but for me, easier to get to (it's still work, 'tho.)

 

But good music with good lyrics...all the stars must align.

 

nat

 

 

I agree 100% with this.

 

Cheers,

 

Mats N

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If you have tried your hand at writing' date=' which do you find easier to do - write music, or write lyrics?[/quote']

 

I can write melodies all day. Lyrics can take years... I have songs that I have yet to release that are 10-15 years old simply because I'm not happy with a line or two. I sweat and agonize over every word. Its a problem I have.

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I'm the king of chord progressions. And not the cliche Millennial I-V-vi-IV cliche kind you hear these days. But lyrics are so much more difficult for me. I tend to procrastinate, or get overly picky about them. It'll take me minutes to write a chord progression/song structure but years to finish lyrics. Which is funny (or sad/pathetic) because outside of music, I'm also a writer with a journalism background.

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I can write melodies all day. Lyrics can take years... I have songs that I have yet to release that are 10-15 years old simply because I'm not happy with a line or two. I sweat and agonize over every word. Its a problem I have.

 

Yeah, I totally know that feeling. lol

 

My strength is in writing melodies, it comes most natural to me. I can usually come up with a new melody within a few minutes. But lyrics is what takes longer, waaay longer, sometimes I would draft something, put it away and then revisit it a year later. It's tough..

 

IMO, the best feeling usually comes when I happen to write a melody that comes with lyrics at the same time.

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Lyrics are much more of a PITA for me, that's for sure. I think I've come up with good titles and some lines here and there. But I'm never happy with the entirety. I sometimes laugh when I hear a song where a large portion a verse or the chorus is, "La la laa ooh oooh ooooh sha la la la laaaa oooh yeeeeah baby " or similar. Such brilliance eludes me at every turn and I'm wordy.

 

But, I was for the most part always an instrumental person, and was much happier when I stopped trying to please friends and roadies and manager types who wanted me to hook up with a singer. Pressure never helped with lyrics, in that regard. At this point, if the lyrics to a song don't kick down the door and rock their way into the room it all belongs to my violin. Obscurity is at hand anyway, might as well just be me when I can.

 

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I can write melodies all day. Lyrics can take years... I have songs that I have yet to release that are 10-15 years old simply because I'm not happy with a line or two. I sweat and agonize over every word. Its a problem I have.

 

You're not alone... I have similar issues with lyrics. I can fix lines for others fairly easily (it's kind of a requirement for a producer), but I struggle to do complete sets of lyrics far more than I struggle to come up with melodies, chord progressions, and even arrangements.

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