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New Windows 10 Support Policy Cuts Off Older Equipment


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Microsoft's newly updated support language opens up the possibility that any unsupported hardware device could be excluded from future Windows 10 updates. "Recognizing that a combination of hardware, driver and firmware support is required to have a good Windows 10 experience, we updated our support lifecycle policy to align with the hardware support period for a given device," Microsoft said in a statement. "If a hardware partner stops supporting a given device or one of its key components and stops providing driver updates, firmware updates, or fixes, it may mean that device will not be able to properly run a future Windows 10 feature update."

 

This means it's not a case of "feature updates are not recommended and may not work", it's a case of Microsoft "will block feature updates to your device". Such measures may force hardware upgrades when not really necessary. This could mean that your DAW may no longer update if using Windows and connected to the internet for automatic updates. Currently, I only use Windows for my DAW (SONAR - which is WIndows only) and it is not connected to the internet. Everything else is on Linux.

 

Do you think this new policy have a impact on the folks who depend on Windows for creating content such as music and video?

 

More here at http://www.pcworld.com/article/3209705/windows/confirmed-windows-10-will-cut-off-devices-with-older-cpus.html

 

 

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I don't think it's quite as bad as it sounds. If a piece of hardware still works with Windows and doesn't need software or firmware changes, then there's no reason to exclude it. If Microsoft demands something like digital signing, the company could just "release" version 1.01, where the only change is the version number :)

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I'm a bit confused, reading through the PCWorld article. The stated worry, in it's most alarming verbiage, is that Windows will stop updating if you have certain hardware that's too old. But three things:

 

1 - the quote from MS refers to "Windows Features" updates, not the OS overall.

 

2 - sometimes an OS update can render a hardware device unusable or make certain features of the hardware inoperable. So if Windows stops updating a Windows Feature that uses an unsupported hardware device, that could have the beneficial effect of leaving the hardware device working as it has been and avoiding conflicts with OS updates. In other words, it's a favor to users in such a case.

 

3 - this is yet another "opens the door to" hand-wringing article, extrapolating the situation into a future scenario that may or may not happen. I admit I'm terribly jaded about articles that send up alarms about possible futures. The sky is totally filled with alarms sent up all over the place...

 

Note I'm no fan of Microsoft, and I think there are plenty of real issues about Microsoft policies to worry about. But sending up a squawk about "opening the door to" speculations about non-existent problems, just clutters and confuses the discussion.

 

nat

 

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My main DAW is still running Windows 7.

 

I bought a couple of inexpensive netbooks with Windows 10 that I use for astronomy. Twice now an update has required me to uninstall, then reinstall the drivers for my telescopes and cameras, along with one of the programs I use (SharpCap 3 Pro) in order to get everything working again post-update. It's a hassle and a time-waster to have a system that's working perfectly fine automatically updated (which often happens at some random time, usually just as I'm getting ready to use it) and then have to "fix" it by uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and programs - not to mention the time it took me to figure out the solution; MS didn't help with that in the slightest - I had to figure it out on my own.

 

I think I'll be leaving the DAW on Windows 7 for as long as I can. I don't dislike Windows 10, but I hate the way they're handling the automatic updates, plus I've seen how it can mess up a system firsthand, and I don't want to have to deal with that on my DAW computer too.

 

 

And in case anyone's curious, this is the type of stuff I look at with my telescopes...

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n32022038[/ATTACH]

 

Messier 17 (aka the Omega, Swan or Lobster Nebula - Emission Nebula in Sagittarius)

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n32022039[/ATTACH]

 

Messier 22 (Globular Cluster in Sagittarius)

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n32022040[/ATTACH]

 

Messier 27 (aka the Dumbbell Nebula - Planetary Nebula in Vulpecula)

 

 

 

These aren't processed and Photoshopped images - it's basically what is displayed on the screen in near-real time by the telescopes, cameras and software - when the operating system isn't messing up the perfectly functioning system that is... ;)

 

 

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Wonderful images, Phil. I'm jealoussmiley-happy

 

We have an old Orion StarQuest Dobsonian. It's still a blast to use, but it's way behind the kit you're working with...

 

We're going to vacation at Ft. Davis and spend a couple of days at the McDonald Observatory in August. Star Party!!

 

nat

 

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Microsoft's newly updated support language opens up the possibility that any unsupported hardware device could be excluded from future Windows 10 updates. "Recognizing that a combination of hardware, driver and firmware support is required to have a good Windows 10 experience, we updated our support lifecycle policy to align with the hardware support period for a given device," Microsoft said in a statement. "If a hardware partner stops supporting a given device or one of its key components and stops providing driver updates, firmware updates, or fixes, it may mean that device will not be able to properly run a future Windows 10 feature update."

 

How is that any different from the way it's always been? I keep a few computers around that are running Windows XP because I have hardware that I want to continue to use (translation: I see no reason to spend the money to replace it yet). I can't use the hardware on any of my Windows 7 (and I assume Windows 10 if I had it) computers because the hardware manufacturer doesn't have an updated driver for anything newer than XP.

 

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was given a TASCAM US-428, a real classic, introduced in 2000. I believe this was the first multi-channel USB audio interface capable of handling four streams for recording while simultaneously playing back two streams. Before the US-428, everyone thought USB was only good for two channel recording. Really cool hardware control surface with 8 channel faders and a master, controls for 3-band parametric EQ in the software (it was designed around Steinberg's Cubasis). I downloaded the latest driver set from the TASCAM web site that was last updated for Windows Vista. I got it working on one of my XP computers, including the faders, knobs, and transport controls using the "learn" feature of an old copy of Sonar LE that came with something that I reviewed. I hoped that it might work with Win7 since it worked for Vista, but when I tried to install the driver on a computer with Windows 7, it popped up a message something like "This sofware cannot be installed with your operating system."

 

I didn't bother to see how good the mic preamps are, but since there are only two of them it's not worth worrying about, but it's cool to have a piece of cool computer hardware working for far longer than I ever expected it to work. I can accept that it's at the end of its useful life. Fortunately the Vista (last) driver Mackie provided for my 1200F seems to work just fine with Win7 (and didn't break it with XP) so that'll live for a few more years.

 

Same thing with my smart-for-its-age phone. It keeps telling me to update apps, and when I try, it tells me that version won't run on this phone (Android 4.2 OS). I hardly make any phone calls on it, but I miss my Southwest Airlines app (the last version that would run on my phone is no longer supported by the host system) and I could get free food from a couple of restaurants if I could use ther apps.

 

Life gets ted'jus, ain't it?

 

 

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I'm a bit confused' date=' reading through the PCWorld article. The stated worry, in it's most alarming verbiage, is that Windows will stop updating if you have certain hardware that's too old.[/quote']

 

That makes a certain degree of sense, provided the "certain hardware" is the computer itself. I have Windows 7 running on a Pentium 4, but I suspect that, if I tried it, Windows 10 is smart enough to tell me that it can't be installed on that computer.

 

 

 

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How is that any different from the way it's always been?

 

 

As I read the article, the difference is that it is an artificial barrier put into place. Before, you could take old hardware and try to see if you could get it to work on the new software. Or you could try old software on new hardware. Now, MS has decided that it will not allow that to happen, and has put in artificial blockages.

 

""Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support," Microsoft notes in a blog post published on Friday. "Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon." - https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10780876/microsoft-windows-support-policy-new-processors-skylake

 

Imagine if you had a car and decided to swap out motors, but the car's ignition system wouldn't allow you start it - not because it wouldn't work, but because the software said this motor is not allowed.

 

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Imagine if you had a car and decided to swap out motors, but the car's ignition system wouldn't allow you start it - not because it wouldn't work, but because the software said this motor is not allowed.

 

That wouldn't be very nice at all. I wonder how Linux is doing these days. I have it set up on a couple of computers here just for the heck of it, but I haven't had the guts to turn over even my regular everyday stuff to it. In a weird sort of way it's comforting that there's a Microsoft that tries to assure that at least what they think should work on a computer will. I'm never going to have a Linux driver for my Mackie 1200F unless I write it myself, and I don't have any idea how to do that.

 

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As I read the article, the difference is that it is an artificial barrier put into place. Before, you could take old hardware and try to see if you could get it to work on the new software. Or you could try old software on new hardware. Now, MS has decided that it will not allow that to happen, and has put in artificial blockages.

 

""Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support," Microsoft notes in a blog post published on Friday. "Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon." - https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10780876/microsoft-windows-support-policy-new-processors-skylake

 

Imagine if you had a car and decided to swap out motors, but the car's ignition system wouldn't allow you start it - not because it wouldn't work, but because the software said this motor is not allowed.

 

 

I'm still confused, sorry....so you are a gamer running Win7 on a big old tower, and you want to upgrade to the latest Intel CPU. Assume it's just a "pop the old one out, pop in the new one" sort of procedure (with maybe some driver updates.)

 

I don't see how MS can somehow put a barrier on that procedure. You have your old Win7 OS disc presumably...it knows nothing of this "new policy". The new chip may or not be compatible with Win7 - but as you say, you can put it together and see if it flies. Now if the chip makers are in a sort of collusion here, and the chip itself could refuse to run anything but Win10, that would do it - but that would be so counter to their interests....to sell hardware that can't run anything except Win10's latest iteration.

 

Now I can see MS not updating Win7 to keep up with changes to newer chips. Ok - they do that sort of thing already. This new policy perhaps just accelerates the date at which all older versions of Windows won't be updated any longer - which is perhaps what they mean by "supported" - that is, every time there's a new generation of silicon, only Win10 (the "last" Windows version till eternity apparently) will be updated and supported to work with whatever the new silicon can require/do/enable, etc. But I don't think this means that somehow the old hardware automatically will be actively blocked from use via the OS.

 

So what I'm reading is that this is a continuation of what we've already knows for a good while now - MS is trying to pry everyone off any version of Windows except the always-updating Win10. Get rid of legacy version support, etc. Any hardware you have, regarding which the manufacturer stops keeping up with Win10 updates, won't be "supported" in subsequent Win10 updates. They will win this battle just as they have won all previous battles of this sort. All we are trying to do is delay the date our hands are forced to our wallets to buy stuff we really don't need. This is an old game.

 

Again, "won't be supported" is ambiguous here. If it means "won't work, period" that's pretty bad. If it means "might work, but some features may not work", ok, that's not that different than still trying to use that 1999 scanner with Win7 or whatever. If it means "you can't call MS and get any support for your configuration" then who cares? If it means "all hardware now has to have the latest Win10 drivers or you computer won't allow the use of the hardware" that would be some kind of evil New MS World. But I don't think even MS is that all-powerful quite yet.

 

We all know that eventually all the old hardware will become obsolete under the latest Windows regime. This just seems the latest idea to speed obsolescence - am I wrong?

 

nat

 

 

 

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These aren't processed and Photoshopped images - it's basically what is displayed on the screen in near-real time by the telescopes, cameras and software - when the operating system isn't messing up the perfectly functioning system that is... ;)

 

 

fetch?filedataid=125926

 

 

That green is stunning. No JPL huh? Wonder if it's green inside there. (?) I see red green and blue objects flickering around 30 degrees above the horizon in my sky. (Yes I own it) I call 'em Trinitrons. Local astronomer says they're just refractions but frankly they look strategically placed. :idk:

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I never ever let Windows update anything automatically.

Tell me there are updates and I will decide what to do.

 

I run several enterprise servers and automatic updates are dangerous, especially when dealing with customized solutions and environments.

 

Show me the updates and I will decide if I need to upgrade my graphics driver.

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I don't know what I'm going to do when I need a new PC. Windows 10 just has too many complaints that turn me off.

 

Get a copy of the OEM version of Windows 7 from Amazon for $55. http://tinyurl.com/y9ebv824

 

Buy a new computer with Windows 10 or 11 or 15, whatever, make a restoration copy just in case, format the hard drive, and install your Windows 7. It's a legal copy, so once it's registered, it will be eligable for updates for as long as they last. Before you start installing your applications, let it suck up all the updates for a day or so and you'll end up with an up-to-date Windows 7 computer. Or hunt around for a refurbished couple of year old computer rather than a brand new one. Some of them still come loaded with Windows 7.

 

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Get a copy of the OEM version of Windows 7 from Amazon for $55. http://tinyurl.com/y9ebv824

 

Buy a new computer with Windows 10 or 11 or 15, whatever, make a restoration copy just in case, format the hard drive, and install your Windows 7. It's a legal copy, so once it's registered, it will be eligable for updates for as long as they last. Before you start installing your applications, let it suck up all the updates for a day or so and you'll end up with an up-to-date Windows 7 computer. Or hunt around for a refurbished couple of year old computer rather than a brand new one. Some of them still come loaded with Windows 7.

 

The hardware may not be compatible. Check your local listings for dates and times.

 

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Thanks Joe. I enjoy looking at the sky, and what I like about the way I often do it (with electronics) is that it not only lets me see 'deeper' (I've easily seen mag. 17 with the camera, when visual tops out at about mag. 14 on my 8 inch telescope) and I get to see it in color, which is rarely visible in an eyepiece. But best of all, because it's on a screen, everyone present can see it together in near-real time, instead of having to share time at the eyepiece.

 

And it gives me an excuse to play DJ and have a suitable spacey playlist going. ;)

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