Members techristian Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 For some reason, my "old" tower (I just replaced the MB 2 years ago) will not allow me to update beyond Win 10 Version 1607 Build 14393 . After at least 10 attempts over a period of 8 months the same thing happens. 1) Windows 10 installs properly. 2) I install a bunch of apps 3) It tries to "update" 4) It crashes with disk errors. Up until recently , I had a second physical SATA drive with a LINUX partition directly on the SATA buss. After the last install (thinking that Windows doesn't like Linux) I housed the drive in a separate box with a SATA>USB interface. It is now unplugged most of the time. EVEN AFTER THAT WIN 10 STILL MESSES UP. I have re-installed again today...and even set up a home network. All is well right now, but usually I only have a few days before the updates kill the system. If it happens once more I will either go back to Win 8.1 or XP I have the Asrock 960GC-GS FX MB with 4 gigs of ram. It is a CHAMELEON type of MB which will run with 2 different buss types....either DDR2 memory OR DDR3 memory BUSS with updated CPU. I'm using the older memory and older CPU. Maybe Windows is mistaking this for the newer setup? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 The only thing I can think of is some anti-virus or anti-malware program is not letting Windows update the system because it perceives system-altering things as a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 2, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 Well I do have some C64 raw code files in a folder. I have used free software such as Blender and Gimp as well as a replacement for Office called Libre Office .(I think that Microsoft doesn't like that one or Openoffice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 One thing I do differently than you - when I install Windows, any version, from scratch, I do the updating first, then install the apps. Of course, I have to install a browser and drivers before the first update, etc. And I'd update more than once before installing all the other apps. Windows 10 updates in increments, with reboots in-between. I'd get just Windows 10 alone as updated and stable as possible before loading the apps. Best o luck in the Windows fix-it lottery... nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted February 2, 2017 Members Share Posted February 2, 2017 And I'd update more than once before installing all the other apps. Windows 10 updates in increments, with reboots in-between. Not just Windows 10! Vista was the king of the never-ending update. I had an old Vista machine that needed updating, and it took multiple re-boots and several hours. It would appear to finish updating, but then I'd check for updates and...here we go again. Then that update would seem done and...yup, check for updates, and come back 30 minutes later. Rinse, lather, repeat. Then again, when it was done I basically had Windows 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 4, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 4, 2017 Not just Windows 10! Vista was the king of the never-ending update. I had an old Vista machine that needed updating, and it took multiple re-boots and several hours. It would appear to finish updating, but then I'd check for updates and...here we go again. Then that update would seem done and...yup, check for updates, and come back 30 minutes later. Rinse, lather, repeat. Then again, when it was done I basically had Windows 7. I tried to avoid that by downloading the LATEST ISO from Microsoft A FEW DAYS BEFORE. That was the last one to work for me (Version 1607 Build 14393) Today I made the mistake of trying to boot with a thumb drive plugged into the USB. Even after removing , I could not get it to re-boot. I'm contemplating SWAPPING DRIVES now...AND I ALSO suspect that Windows is messing with the BIOS. I MIGHT ADD ALSO THAT I NEVER INSTALLED ANY OTHER APPLICATIONS THIS TIME....NOT EVEN CHROME ! DAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 New machine then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mandolin Picker Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 Just a thought, you might try running some checks on the hardware. Perhaps a bad memory chip or even buss connection, causing issues. Just out of curiosity, have you tried another OS, something like a live Linux disk (I like Linux Mint) to see if that will boot up and run. Unlike Windows, you don't have to install anything to see if the OS will run. If Linux runs, then it could be more likely an issue with Windows. If neither OS will run, then you might be looking at a hardware issue. That's my 2-cents, and worth not a penny more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 5, 2017 Members Share Posted February 5, 2017 That's not all. If you act now... http://www.pcworld.com/article/3165389/security/zero-day-windows-file-sharing-flaw-can-crash-systems-maybe-worse.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 6, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2017 Just a thought, you might try running some checks on the hardware. Perhaps a bad memory chip or even buss connection, causing issues. Just out of curiosity, have you tried another OS, something like a live Linux disk (I like Linux Mint) to see if that will boot up and run. Unlike Windows, you don't have to install anything to see if the OS will run. If Linux runs, then it could be more likely an issue with Windows. If neither OS will run, then you might be looking at a hardware issue. That's my 2-cents, and worth not a penny more! Linux runs fine and Windows 10 runs fine ...only up to Version 1607 Build 14393 ....but I may try swapping drives...then looking at memory...but if memory bad it will be a memory and cpu upgrade. ...but once again Ubuntu runs fine... on the other hard disk. New machine then. And as far as memory AND cpu upgrade...I don't know...I have enough computers around here (computer graveyard) and currently the tower is no longer my most powerful.....this laptop is...BUT NO FIREWIRE for my mixer . BUT LINUX RUNS GREAT ON IT !!! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted February 6, 2017 Members Share Posted February 6, 2017 Man I just been through all this. If you're version of win 10 is an upgrade to some other windows version you want to do a fresh install, not an upgrade. Leave your internet and windows upgrades OFF until all your other programs are loaded. Some may require internet access to fully load but hold those aside till later. Any program you have that has anything that looks like a cracked license, compressed or uncompressed will be destroyed by windows defender. Windows 10 is no longer a product you buy - its a Service model. Windows 10 is the end of the line, there wont be a windows 11. They have made a continuous service company you buy into with ongoing updates. They'll eventually want a yearly/monthly service fee like your cable companies have. This all sums up to you loosing control over your own life and what you purchase is not yours to own. Some suggestions that might help. I suggest you put all your backup programs on a separate hard drive. Open My Computer and right click on that drive, then untick the box that says Allow this drive to have its contents indexed. This will prevent Windows defender and other programs from scanning the items on that disk. You can disable scanning on all secondary drives. If you try to disable the C drives windows is going to drive you nuts trying to re-enable it and it will eventually do so after boots or updates. Next, turn windows defender off while you load your programs. This is not a permanent setting - defender turns back on after every reboot and will automatically remove any files from the system it thinks is a threat. You cant de-install defender like you can with other versions of windows either. You can go into its definitions and tell you which programs or files to ignore. The problem is it will remove and quarantine these files before you even know its wanting to remove them. You can restore the quarantined files and have defender ignore them on future scans but its a bass ackwards way of doing things. What I did was download Mcafee and run it as an antivirus scanner and firewall. It overrides Windows defender and firewall and I'm able to suspend them from taking actions to remove files without my permission. I can suspend them when installing programs too. In some cases you may have to go into the security settings and make sure you see all popups when installing programs. The windows may drive you nuts but it insures windows isn't trying to be smarter then you are and removing threats without your OK. Next you get all your files set up properly before you connect to the internet and update. Be sure you right click on the programs you want to install and install them as an administrator. If you only use User permissions they may not be bullet proof. There is a program called C Cleaner saved my ass several times. It will clean damaged registry points and left over files. You may want to try it before a fresh install just to see if you can salvage your setup. There are some other key points. Windows isn't licensed to users if they did a free upgrade. Its called a digital entitlement. If you were to read the agreement you'd never install that load of crap on your computer. Its so much more invasive then most people think. You essentially set up a cloud account with Microsoft when you install the program and that company has access to everything you do. You may think you're blocking them by turning off all the settings switches but they are only tied to what you see, not what's actually going on in the background. I'm usually pretty good at working with services and doing registry tweaks - I know enough to be dangerous but 10 is too complex for even me. Its not the same program as XP or even win 7. Win 8 is closer to 10 but I believe 7, 8 and 10 all become the same engines once MS is allowed to update them. Much of what 10 does is policy driven, not hard wired to switches. You can drill down and block or allow the program to do certain things just like you can with windows services. Like windows services, the policies are interdependent. If for example you want to go in there and change the policy of the camera or mic on a laptop from working stealthily in the background, you have to change the policy. When you do it can prevent other things from working properly because its all tied into the blanket of security/spyware MS has been allowed to develop and users simply don't understand. In my case I had a new laptop they had to run win 10 so I had no other workable options. They don't make win 8 or 7 drivers for its hardware or I would have gone with an older system I know well and know how to optimize well. 10 is like a virus in the way it takes control of not only the device you have but its also going to try and capture all your other computers, cell phones and tablets you have. By default it tries to do this unless you shut all that stuff down first. It will even overdrive your other devices settings and act as a distributor of updates to your other devices. I can tell you I wasn't expecting it to be that invasive at first.. I had to do some major digging under its hood to see this. Its closer to that movie the Matrix then you expect. Bad news man, bad news. I do suggest you set up your account as a single user. This will prevent it from connecting with Microsoft the second you log on. That log on is not only to boot the computer its acting as a cloud login with Microsoft. By default you are open to that cloud and all downloads and installs are monitored. They aren't going to know you bought that program 20 years ago and will try and block it. They want you to use they're store to buy they're products. Much of it is sales based, they want you're money. Big companies like MS and Google don't give away products for free - they expect to lock you into they're monopoly buying only from they're vendors. They do not recognize individuals rights to own anything including they're software. They been doing it long enough now, and used cyber threats as a means to extend they're control over people who are blind to all of it. You are no longer an individual owner of they're product, they are a service provider who has say over what you can and cant run on they're operating system and all suspicious activity is automatically blocked, erased or rendered helpless. You're computer is simply a dumb workstation connected to the collective matrix they and the communications companies own. This is not some conspiracy theory BS either. I been in the business too long and recognize the difference. If you want a secure system running 10, rip the network cards out of your computer. That's the only way you can do it by denying the OS from connecting on line. Otherwise Microsoft decides what you can or cant run on that system. Anything it deems as a threat wont be allowed to run on they're operating system. Don't believe me - read your user agreement. Its all there in a nutshell written in plain terms - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Uset...10_English.htm “Microsoft collects information about you, your devices, applications and networks, and your use of those devices, applications and networks. Examples of data we collect include your name, email address, preferences and interests; browsing, search and file history; phone call and SMS data; device configuration and sensor data; and application usage.” “We may collect information about your device and applications and use it for purposes such as determining or improving compatibility” and “use voice input features like speech-to-text, we may collect voice information and use it for purposes such as improving speech processing.” “If you open a file, we may collect information about the file, the application used to open the file, and how long it takes any use [of]it for purposes such as improving performance, or [if you]enter text, we may collect typed characters, we may collect typed characters and use them for purposes such as improving autocomplete and spell check features.”[/QUOTE] I'll add this > If its a laptop it can track you geographically. If you allow this device to connect freely with your home network, by default it downloads the same tracking updates to all your other devices. This is all the tip of the iceberg any regular user can investigate and find out to be true. There's so much more below the surface which will completely blow your mind. No matter how you might want to dress the facts up and try and say this is good for people its simply a wide open door to allowing MS or any other entity who can crack the software to collecting all the info you have. Some say, you got nothing to hide why should you care. Its the fact you cant hide anything and openly allow this intrusion that makes you a a pawn on they're playing board but a fool for not complaining about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 7, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2017 Thanks WRGKMC for your lengthy response. I also have been doing this long enough to smell a rat in the wires. Normally if memory starts to go bad files will get corrupted . This never happened. Everything always works up to the same version number. Yes I suspect that I have broken a few Microsoft rules. 1) I run Thunderbird rather than Outlook 2) I run Chrome instead of Edge 3) I run Libre Office or Open Office rather than Office 360 4) I like to share data with Linux apps 5) I also write machine language for C64 and have those files on my windows machine along with a C64 emulator HOWEVER, this last time, I didn't have any of that stuff installed and the system still went south after Version 1607 Build 14393 . So yes I have even thought about pulling the Ethernet plug after that build. It did give me a warning before it died the last time. It told me that it was unable to install the update. I SHOULDN'T HAVE TRIED AGAIN. It sounds silly that I'm programing a C64 from over 30 years ago, but I can run software from way back without the fear of the big hand of Microsoft coming down and changing it.....and it boots faster than Windows 10...It boot instantly ! Luckily I can install an old version of XP...but a few of my new apps such as Sonar and Studio One probably won't run on it. DON'T YOU JUST LOVE TECHNOLOGY ! DAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted February 7, 2017 Members Share Posted February 7, 2017 For some reason, my "old" tower (I just replaced the MB 2 years ago) will not allow me to update beyond Win 10 Version 1607 Build 14393 . After at least 10 attempts over a period of 8 months the same thing happens. Dan I believe that's the very problematic "Win 10 Anniversary Update" that has put a lot of knickers into twists. This article has some interesting info about 1607 build 14393 etc etc. I'm trying to imagine a company as huge and as wealthy as M$oft, still putting out buggy releases knowingly, letting the public do the error-discovery with live data....corporate cultures persist, don't they? http://www.infoworld.com/article/3107238/microsoft-windows/more-win-10-anniversary-update-problems-and-what-to-do-about-them.html Of interest to me is the particular issue cited in the article where M$oft's "solution" is to put all your programs and data on a C drive alone. My Win10 laptop has a SSD for Win10 and programs and a big-honking e-Sata drive for audio and samples, and Win10 loses track of the e-Sata drive from time to time. Just random, seemingly.... Gee, things like having more than one drive...getting to be too much for Windows to deal with! Progress, huh. To be fair, other than my e-Sata issue, Win10 has been stable and speedy. nat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 7, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 7, 2017 Of interest to me is the particular issue cited in the article where M$oft's "solution" is to put all your programs and data on a C drive alone. LIKE "PUTTING ALL OF YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET" No way, not at all. I have "works in progress" as you said , large audio and video files. It doesn't make sense to do that. Currently , I'm juggling 1 TB of data around so I can try the other drive again. Seems to me that , originally, this (my current data drive) was my boot drive, but getting the newer drive , just assumed it to be better so installed windows 8 on it a few years ago and have been having trouble since. Both are 2-3 TB SATA DRIVES. I'm also suspecting that DRM is part of the problem as well. Because we have these large audio files , we must be "stealing" them...even if we are the authors. OF COURSE AFTER YOU SEND IT TO THE CLOUD, YOU DON'T REALLY OWN IT ANYMORE. DAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 9, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2017 So is the nightmare over? Only time will tell. We will see after a few apps are installed. However........................... I'm finally up to Version 1607 (OS Build 14393.693)...same as my laptop.Swapped the drives and lost a partition of 800gb when I tried to enlarge a partition. I do have some redundancy of this drive though."The boot drive was a Samsung HD155UI 1.5 TB Windows 10 didn't like this boot drive !! Apparently ,I'm not the only one with troubles with this drive and Windows 10 "Anniversary Edition" Others users have complained online.Replaced with Seagate ST2000DL003 "Barracuda LP" 2TB The Samsung is now being used for DATA in a USB housing. I never noticed the writing on the Samsung drive. "Advanced Format Drive: Windows XP and Cloning software users use Samsung Align Tool (software) on www.samsunghdd.com/aft to operate full performance" Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philboking Posted February 10, 2017 Members Share Posted February 10, 2017 Wow.... Can't wait until Linux is mature enough for us mere mortals to use it for DAW work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mandolin Picker Posted February 10, 2017 Members Share Posted February 10, 2017 The Linux OS itself can do the job, it just there is no really good native DAW apps. Ardour is OK, but if you are use to SONAR or other type of DAW, you probably won't be happy. REAPER can be run using WINE, but on my machine it felt kinda clunky - at least that is the best way I can describe it. And seeing that it is being run through an emulator (I know - Wine Is Not an Emulator, but I think you understand where I am going) and not native to Linux, it just seemed not as smooth (YMMV). Here's hoping that we will see something soon. Some of the video stuff on Linux is really good, as are the imaging programs. SONAR is the only thing I currently run under Windows (and I keep it offline as well). Everything else I do I run on Linux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 11, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2017 So about that drive that I was going to use for data...... I unplugged it once while the system was running and corrupted it beyond repair. The tower is still running fine. So here is what I THINK . SOME HARD DRIVES DON'T LIKE BEING LEFT WITH OPEN FILES. Since Win10 likes to leave files open (by default) , this is the quickest way to kill a hard disk. Also, Win 10 likes a single hard drive with multiple partitions better than multiple drives. However , if your HD bearings go, that single hard drive will cost you dearly. So I may use that 1.5 TB drive for my TV box and swap it with my WD Passport 1TB. We'll see how friendly Win10 is with "My Passport". Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted February 17, 2017 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2017 Weird...... This morning I started up this Win10 laptop, tried to log in and it kept telling me that I was typing the wrong password. Nope, the CAPS weren't on and I very carefully and slowly typed in the password 3 or 4 times. So then I rebooted and everything seemed fine ??? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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