Windows 10: Won't be Free Much Longer

[Anderton]

The last time I started a Windows 10 thread, it was asking for opinions. Well, I took the plunge, and my only regret is I didn't do it sooner. I did an in-place install (didn't have to wipe everything first) and the update was by far the most painless Windows 10 update ever, and actually, more painless than El Capitan. I was impressed. Since using it, I've become more impressed.

 

The opportunity to get it for free runs out in July, when it's also rumored that the first major update will be coming our way. I know a lot of "I'm sticking with Windows 7 as long as I can" people, but then again, I also knew a lot of "I'm sticking with Windows XP for as long as I can" when Windows 7 came out. I think it may be the same group of people.

 

Ultimately going to W10 is somewhat of a leap of faith, although the mitigating factor in all this is if you don't like W10, you have 30 days to roll back to W7. But, here's the reality of the situation: W7 will get no more updates or bug fixes, and security patches for onlyanother 3.5 years. Neither Microsoft nor software manufacturers want to support multiple operating systems, and all concerned would be happy if W7 just went away...and they might help it along, if you know what I mean...

 

So July is just around the corner. If you haven't upgraded, will you? If you did, do you regret it? Should I wipe my old Vista laptop and install W7 now, so I can update it for free to W10 before freebie-time rides off in the sunset? Several people have expressed surprise that W10 was faster with the old laptop than what they had before. Hmmm...

 

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

If you have anything that requires an earlier OS and won't run on Win 10, I'd recommend keeping an old machine with an older OS on it... if not, then 10 seems like the way to go. I still have Win 7 on my main DAW, but I did buy a cheap 2 in 1 to get a feel for Windows 10, and so far I like it, although their auto-updates still kind of scare me in terms of the potential for mucking up a perfectly functioning DAW system... but you can always turn that off, right?

 

[Anderton]

If you have anything that requires an earlier OS and won't run on Win 10, I'd recommend keeping an old machine with an older OS on it... if not, then 10 seems like the way to go. I still have Win 7 on my main DAW, but I did buy a cheap 2 in 1 to get a feel for Windows 10, and so far I like it, although their auto-updates still kind of scare me in terms of the potential for mucking up a perfectly functioning DAW system... but you can always turn that off, right?

 

 

Yes and no, depends on which version you have. Of course you can always turn them off by not going online

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

 

Yes and no, depends on which version you have. Of course you can always turn them off by not going online

 

Yeah, they can't really prevent you from disabling the wifi in Device Manager. At least until they decide to get rid of DM and replace it with some automated thing we can't control anymore, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

[nat whilk II]

I'm still a tower-PC sort. For a number of reasons, one of which is that when I upgrade to a new OS, I always do so on a fresh new empty hard drive, just adding another bootable drive to the tower. First I'll load the OS, then a handful of basic programs and boot into that drive for a while doing non-mission-critical stuff until I'm somewhat used to the new OS. I'll take my time reading up on the tips and tricks for tweaking the new OS for my purposes.

 

At the same time I'll still be doing my main work booting into other drives running different OS versions. Right now I'm running XP on one drive (mainly for the benefit of a couple of very useful programs that won't run on any Windows version newer than XP) and Win7 on two drives - one for business and one for music production.

 

So I should get a new drive and load this freebie Win10 sounds like - if Windows will let me install onto a fresh, blank drive and not just upgrade an existing version. Usually what I do is buy the developer's version on disk which can be loaded on any number of computers.

 

I know I've said this a bunch of times before, but nothing makes a computer run like new than installing an OS from scratch on an empty drive and reloading the programs and data afresh. Yeah, it takes time. I do think I get all that time back later, along with a whole lot more speed and far fewer crashes.

 

nat whilk ii

[blue2blue]

I simply don't trust auto-updating OS's. I've read way, way too many tales of woe -- mostly from the Apple and Google worlds but MS has certainly listened to their board to become ever more 'Apple-like' -- typically to the detriment of power users but also to just plain folks.

 

My own experiences with Google's auto-updates with Android have become nightmarish. They seem determined to bring my Google-branded Nexus 7 to its knees and force me to buy a new device. I will probably root it, instead. It worked great with Android 4.0.

 

The only way I can keep my Android phone running is by preventing updates to the Play Store and Play Services apps. Play Services is a HUGE ass piece of bloatware that does NOTHING but slow down the phone, as far as I can see. (Yeah, yeah, it also provides services for other bloated Google apps that I've already removed or rolled back because they are such resource hogs.)

 

Meanwhile, my old XP machine runs beautifully -- although typically in isolation. And my Win 7 machine runs very well, too. I just can't see opening myself up to more suffering and a system where updates would be out of my hands.

[bookumdano4]

I'm very happy with win10 Pro. I wasn't for a brief time after first trying it out, but I now have two computers running it and it's fantastic. Via settings and wushowhide, no autoupdating happens except os updates, which is fine by me. And even those don't interrupt my workflow, instead waiting patiently to tell me a restart is necessary when I was going to power down anyway. But restarts are not often even needed, so rarely a prompt about it.

 

My advice for win7 users is grab the free version while you can. Even if you don't decide to really use it for another year. Pop in a fresh C drive, do a quick fresh install of your win SEVEN....far enough to activate it the old fashion way.... you don't really need anything more than an initial Seven install.....takes what, fifteen minutes?

 

Then download the win 10 update to install on top of the fresh win7 and get it installed just far enough to get the MS activation of 10.

 

Done. The whole thing took less than an hour. Wipe the drive and take it out to use it for other stuff if you want. Pop in your old win 7 C drive and go back to Seven-land for as long as you want.

 

If and when you decide to take ten for a serious spin next year or whatever, do a clean install of a win 10 iso (available any time as a separate download) on a fresh drive and voila... it's activated. Since you activated for this hardware way back in May 2016.

 

Nothing to lose.

 

Win 10 is great.

Packard Bell... not so much.

[tbry]

I was reading this and decided to get it...So far really quick and clean.

[leecloudpitt]

Thanks bookumdano4 I'm going to try that. I'm running win 7 in mac book with parallels now. was a hoot watching it install! it's like a turducken lol or like matrix.

[philboking]

On the other hand...

 

If you are determined not to go from 7 or 8 to 10, here is a reputable site containing code you can use to prevent the autoupdate:

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

[WRGKMC]

I've only have my work computer updated because the company chose to. Like many other widows updates, on the surface it consists of a GUI changes that simply makes things harder to find. I haven't found a single thing it does that makes my life easier. There may be some system changes that cant be seen but there has been no noticeable performance improvements. If anything I had to spend allot of time figuring out work around's so I could still be as productive as I used to be.

 

I run three monitors at work and keep a dozen or so applications running at the same time. I hated the way the task bar loaded up so I downloaded a fix to remove al that Aero crap Microsoft thinks is so cool. To me its simply a drag on the CPU speed and I'll take a snappier mouse click over any of that crap.

 

Windows is simply a platform other programs run on. Microsoft is in the business of selling you that same platform over and over and over again. They switch a few things around in the GUI and call that an essential upgrade. Baloney. I haven't seen a worthwhile upgrade since they moved for 98 to XP and even that was simply a redeployment of Win NT to make it user friendly.

 

Sometimes they add in some additional widgets, all of which can be obtained either from third parties or as add on from Microsoft. Win 10 is free because its a pretty worthless upgrade. If they tried to sell it no one would bother with it. Its like Win ME. Its built as a shell over an existing OS.

 

I'm not bashing Microsoft as much as I'm saying, enough is enough.

 

I think its time for Microsoft to get focused on some other useful software that's really worth their efforts. Maybe they're beyond that though. To me it seems the spark of creativity that made MS an innovator has been replaces by a bunch of cloned imitators who simply have no new ideas. If you have no vision for the future you'll simply keep recycling the past.

 

Maybe they can branch out and make some specialty programs in Graphics, Music, Film, Banking, Accounting etc. They can keep up with the security on their OS but truthfully, what does win 10 do that's so much better then win 95 did besides handle larger drives? Is it worth the price you paid for 6 or more major upgrades costing $100 a pop? For $600 I should have a lifetime subscription to any upgrades they make for the rest of your life especially give the fact so many other software manufacturers try to give their software away for free.

 

So my beef is, Until I see something that's truly innovative or some tangible productivity improvements, MS can keep their bloatware. I realize this only gives me a couple of extra years until I'm extorted into upgrading but why give that company cash for doing nothing to earn it. A company has to be pushed keep its competitive edge and MS has simply become a sloth that bellies up to the troth every couple of years when its feeding time.

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

I simply don't trust auto-updating OS's. I've read way' date=' way[/i'] too many tales of woe -- mostly from the Apple and Google worlds but MS has certainly listened to their board to become ever more 'Apple-like' -- typically to the detriment of power users but also to just plain folks.

 

(snip)

 

Meanwhile, my old XP machine runs beautifully -- although typically in isolation. And my Win 7 machine runs very well, too. I just can't see opening myself up to more suffering and a system where updates would be out of my hands.

 

You should be very careful with that Windows 7 system... Microsoft is doing some things that are really sketchy IMHO. They're trying to "force" computers running earlier OS systems to update to Windows 10, and using deceptive statements to do it, such as telling Win 7 and 8 users that they "have to update" and that it can not be stopped. And if you're in the habit of installing all of Microsoft's "recommended" updates to keep up with all the latest security patches and so forth, don't - they've moved Win 10 from optional to recommended, so it gets installed into more computers, even if people don't realize it's going to happen. Who cares if they want it or not?

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke.../#14b9220e75eb

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke.../#51198ff04fdf

 

Just in case anyone there cares or wonders why people can't stand companies like Apple, Google and M$, this is a classic example. Bozos.

[Phil O'Keefe]

On the other hand...

 

If you are determined not to go from 7 or 8 to 10, here is a reputable site containing code you can use to prevent the autoupdate:

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

 

Thanks for posting that!

[bookumdano4]

Alternatively, 65 or so days from now, all autoupdating prompts fade into the horizon. Those who don't wanna go, won't be pressured any more.

 

Sort of like James Whitmore in that Twilight Zone episode where he spends the episode arguing and screaming that he doesn't want to go back to earth with the others stranded on the asteroid. But just as the episode ends and the rescue saucer has taken off into the skies, disappearing into space, he runs out of a cave screaming, "no, I didn't mean it.... come back...come back....".

[electrow]

Below is an unfinished essay I was working on concerning the DAW musician and the misunderstanding of what Win10 is. I thought I'd post it here as the tenor of posts, like elsewhere, from a musician's stand point, is either satisfaction or frustration with Win10. This is written from a layman's POV (user only) :

 

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Apparently for Microsoft the marketing strategy for offering the new Operating System needs fix’n. So now we get Win10 delivered for “free”. As a bonus users are alleviated from making decisions about updates. The approach to Win10 is ongoing updates whether we like it or not. So where does the need for a stable system which all DAW musicians want fit into perpetual updates? If we assume a stable system is one where everything is working to the satisfaction of the user, then there is no reason to keep retuning the carburetor so to speak for fear of upsetting the “solid” performance and reliability.

 

Microsoft doesn’t see it that way because Win10 is not an OS as much as a service. And service is just a coded metaphor for data compilation.

It doesn’t matter if it’s in aggregate form or personal. We, as Win10 users, provide the data for the service. Microsoft is not the culprit here. It is just being more up front about its intent than in the past . Is there any sizable organization which is NOT utilizing collected data? It is now assumed to be integral to the economic structure and interwoven in social technology:

 

“Big data has become big business. Omar Tawakol, who founded

BlueKai

, one of the biggest of the big data companies, in 2008, has rightly declared, “Oil was to the industrial revolution as data is to our information economy.”

 

 

 

“…it is estimated that Wal-Mart collects more than 2.5

petabytes

of data every hour from its customer transactions….”

 

From:

Speed Limits

by Mark C. Tayler (page 193)

 

 

“There is a larger story behind all the talk about big data and digital transformation, and that story is an economic one: It’s the rise of data capital,” Oracle’s Paul Sonderegger told

CMO

. “Data is kind of capital, on par with financial capital, for creating new digital products and services. Unlike the metaphors we use about data - that it’s the new oil, gold or new electricity – what we’re saying with data capital is that it fulfils the literal textbook definition of capital. It is a produced good, as opposed to a natural resource, and it’s a necessary input into other goods or services.

 

From : the on-line article -

Why big data is the capital driving the digital age

 

Where as having a stable DAW computer is primary to the musician, what Microsoft wants is to keep us utilizing the Net. While Microsoft will be tweaking its OS perpetually from here on out, it is up to the musician to keep up with the updates by accepting the non-requested status of beta tester, and be willing to stop using equipment whose drivers Win10 deems outdated. Still, given all this, “probably” most DAW musicians will have no issues. But then again no two systems are alike. The paradigm shift from product (OS) as a tool for the user to a service for whom and what purpose isn’t overtly clear.

 

The heavy-hand push to upgrade by Microsoft seems crude and not honorable at all. In fact the unintended message with forced updates from Microsoft is: because we can. Microsoft wants us to like the new and final “OS” and isn’t purposely working against musicians needs at all. But the paradigm shift that consumers don’t really understand is analytics are what is important, so “updates” are perpetual and while stability of the DAW system is desirable to all (including MS) it is governed by Microsoft’s business model needs. Here are some links talking about the importance of Big Data in Microsoft’s world.:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=microsoft+and+big+data&t=ffnt

 

So those musicians who hope MS will stop the updating, don’t count on it. To quote an a Quora.com commenter:

 

“The real revenue, going forward, for Microsoft is not Windows. It is Servers, Services, Devices (XBox, Tablets and Phones), and Office. Read Quora, tons of people hate Windows. Microsoft needs to make Windows free to keep people on the interface - then they can sell the other products…” Thomas Moser, (Wrote an RTOS, Worked on many Os).

[1001gear]

There's that supply law again. First you supply, then you demand. Consumers don't seem to get this.

 

 

[Etienne Rambert]

I installed and uninstalled it the same day. It killed all my touch screen control untl I reinstalled 8.1.No thanks.

 

[Verne Andru]

IMHO Windows 10 should be avoided unless there is a critical need. It will die a horrible death like ME and Vista and Windows 8 before it IMHO.

 

MS has run out of ideas and has decided to bet the farm on Cloud - which is one of the dumbest ideas they've come out with to date. The plan is to get computers to the point where they boot off the Cloud and all apps and data are stored in the cloud. That way they can continue to get money through a "subscription" model leaving users are at the mercy of tech before they can even start their machines.

 

MS has a horrible history of updates - it's always update, screw-up, fix it in the next update, screw-up, etc. At least with an OS you boot off a drive, you can slush back, but being dependent on the Cloud for tech from a company with such a horrible rep is the epitome of a bad idea IMHO.

 

My production gear is still XP and I run a W7 terminal for internet. If I have to update later, I'll look for a Unix derivative.

 

BTW - I've been in tech since '82 and was one of alpha testers for AVI before it was released, so I know how they work - or more correctly, don't work. They just toss crap at the wall until something sticks - no real vision then, or now.

 

 

[electrow]

Interesting article on floppy discs. The take-away line is:."Would you rather have a system that is proven to work or a machine running Windows 10?" he asked.