Jump to content

Why Retro? Why Now?


Anderton

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Vinyl has gotten a lot more interest than hi-res audio. The big deal in synths is analog. Modular synths with patch cords are back. For some reason I can't fathom, people buy new guitars that are made to look like old guitars. Guitarists still want tubes...

 

There has always been an interest in retro; it may be just me, but it seems to be accelerating. I wonder if it's because the world is just getting to darn confusing and disjointed for people, and retro is the technological equivalent of comfort food...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

Perhaps people have just reached a point where the homogenization of music, the ease of producing it, has become a bit boring. People want to actually go to bit more trouble to create their sound. They want something to set them apart a bit. Vinyl doesn't make a lot of sense really, from a portability standpoint. That in and of itself may be part of the appeal. Plus the very real artistic real estate vinyl album covers offer those that cherish that avenue of expression.

 

Analog synths offer keyboardists perhaps the same individualist and nostalgic charm that new distressed guitars do guitarists.

Also Analog synths and Tube amplifiers offer the opportunities to set oneself apart from the Modeled amps and plugins that have dominated music for the last 20 years.

 

That and the fact that real vintage instruments cost a fortune.

 

All just conjecture on my part though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Fear of change -- and a sense among those with a sense of history hugely distorted by simplistic popular media views that the past was better and that modern changes have not improved the quality of life. Of course, a large part of that is driven by the fact that, in the US in particular, vested interests have manipulated trade and tax laws to shift earned wealth away from the mainstream many to the market-manipulating few.

 

I think there is a huge distrust of anything that smacks of the sort of 'progress' defined by a continual stream of new products and services that often fail miserably at improving quality of life -- at least as it's defined by those whose values derive largely from the consumer-excess ideals promoted by reality TV and blingtastic pop culture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I compare music to Saturday Night Live.

A few decades ago it was rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. Now I can watch entire episodes without even cracking a smile (disclaimer: I generally don't).

Why? Because the real deal is what really works...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To keep my answer short, the value is in the work itself and not in the tools that were used to make it. I guess there is a natural tendency to resist change.

 

Bottom line ... Do whatever make you happy. Who cares what I think. Hippocrite that I am, I just switched over to a mainly analog work stream from working inside the box. It is much easier to sell ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Don, that triggered a thought...I noticed there was a lot of activity around the RADAR booth at the last AES. I heard vague mutterings about "tired of paying for Avid hardware grumble grumble." I wonder if the way forward is wrapping technology in familiar clothes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think for a lot of people it's because they think "retro" stuff sounds better.

In many cases they may be right, (especially with early digital equipment) but there is a lot of good "fat" and "warm" digital gear now.

 

The public has been conditioned now to automatically think anything "retro" must sound better than anything that's digital.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have always had some sort of nostalgia bug. I guess it could be called "retro". But it's always been the content for me. When I was a kid we visited a great aunt - my mother, sister and I, for maybe 5 or 6 days each summer. Around age 12 or 13 I discovered she had a large stash of Readers Digests from the 30's and 40's. I loved them. And going thru bin after bin at the used record joint at an area flea market around age 18-19. Discovered Thelonious Monk and Dave Brubeck at that joint going thru all those bins.

 

It's always been for the content. Not the medium. I'm not highly motivated to acquire a turntable even though I have maybe 300-400 albums. I can most likely find it on YouTube. I don't have a nostalgic yearning for clunky gadgets. Different strokes for folks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To my mind it is those clinging to digital technology that are resisting change. Yep, that's right... digital processing has now been around long enough that it is "The Old Way" to the generation that grew up in it. Tubes and analog may be retro to some of us, what we've always used to others of us, and the new experimental thing to those young enough to have never used analog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author

I'm always a little behind in my reading an I'm currently reading the November 2015 issue of Sound on Sound, probably the issue I picked up at the Fall AES show. It's their 30th anniversary, and I headed straight for the feature article in which they scrounged up some vintage project studio gear and recorded a song with it.

 

I laughed. I cried - first mostly about how the way most people work today, and in fact, the only way most people recording music today have ever worked that has become so much more complicated than what they were using in writing this article. Second, how much they struggled with the gear they were using in trying to work on an 8-track hardware-based project in the same way they would work on a DAW project today. That's what made me cry the most.

 

Oh, the pain! Having to actually move faders instead of trimming every bit of every track to the perfect level. They had only two reverb units (to their credit, they only used one in the mix). They only had 8 tracks so they had to erase the acoustic guitar to make room for a second vocal. Didn't they ever hear of bouncing tracks? They had a 4-channel compressor, and "fortunately" their mixer had inserts in the main output path so they could (saving the day) have a "bus compressor."

 

The whole tone of the article wasn't that it was a fun project, it was geez, things were really hard back in those days, So I don't think anyone will be sold on a 1980s retro project studio control room from reading this article.

 

You can read it here. Tell me if you're laughing or crying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The whole tone of the article wasn't that it was a fun project, it was geez, things were really hard back in those days, So I don't think anyone will be sold on a 1980s retro project studio control room from reading this article.

 

 

I think a lot of people tend to think of "retro" as "high quality". I saw that article and it's really hard for me to think of any of that equipment as "retro"

 

First of all I'm old enough to remember when all that stuff came out and second I don't think most people would consider a "Fostex quarter-inch eight-track" to have that "retro" sound if you know what I mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
<...snip...> I wonder if it's because the world is just getting to darn confusing and disjointed for people' date=' and retro is the technological equivalent of comfort food...[/quote']

Technological comfort food - I love it!

 

Perhaps nostalgia is just part of human nature. We remember things of our younger years, and it subconsciously makes us feel younger??? (multiple ??? because I really don't know if that's it). Or is it just familiarity??? Or comfort food for the brain???

 

When I hear an old song that I loved years ago, it's like visiting an old friend.

 

When I see an old King Super 20 Silversonic saxophone I want it, even though I know my new custom made sax plays better, has better intonation, and I'd probably never take the Super 20 to a gig.

 

I recorded some old vinyl that I hadn't heard in a long time to put on my iPod, and I have to admit, I liked the physicality of dropping the needle and I liked watching the machine make the music (though I wouldn't buy new vinyl for a number of reasons). I liked the big cardboard cover with the art work and liner notes too.

 

I've got a 1970 Gibson that I never play anymore, I reach for one of my Parkers because they play better and are more versatile. But I have no plans of selling the GIbson - it's an old friend.

 

But I don't miss the days of gigging using the house PA with that 35 watt Bogen amp, ceiling speakers and no monitors. I don't miss the later days of carrying around Voice Of The Theater speakers and helping the B-3 player walk all 400+ pounds of it up a flight of stairs. I don't miss cars with that 6 by 9 inch oval speaker in the middle of the dash that distorted when you turned it up louder than the road noise.

 

Nostalgia only a part of me. Comfort food,

 

I have new synth modules for my wind synthesizer, I play my new custom built Parker and my custom Sax, I learn new songs, Transistors and then ICs have made electronics gear much smaller, and for someone who does one-nighter gigs, that means much lighter loads. I never want to go back to floppy disks on the computer. Flash memory is better than magnetic.

 

I like new technology if it makes my life better and so on,

 

I don't do new for the sake of new, and I don't do old for the sake of old either.

 

But I admit, I also enjoy the comfort food of things I used to be attached to.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I call this the Mojo effect. People have been convinced by sales people there is a Magic Wand out there for every artist which will be a short cut creating great works of art without having to put the hard work needed.

 

If you're inspired to use old gear more then new its easy to misplace the reason you play better using old gear.

In reality, it has nothing to do with its age. If the tools are good tools and you're inspired to work long hours mastering them, its the longer hours of hard work that make a better artist, not the tools themselves.

 

I believe people like retro because its an authentic connection to that technology and provides a direct path to the sounds they produced. Its much like anything historical people purchase. It gives them a connection to the past. It goes beyond the sound itself. People like to own "things" and if those things are unique they can master unique ways of expressing themselves.

 

Pushing an older piece of gear to produce the same sounds they did when they were a new technology gives you specific boundaries based on that gears limitations. Its obvious many new pieces of gear can do the same job as old gear did. Often times better and easier. Why would someone buy a dozen different keyboard to get unique tones when they can buy one that does them all?

 

Its the art of mastering those old technologies that makes you appreciate the new. Probably makes you appreciate the new technology once you learn just how far the old technology was pushed to get those sounds too.

 

I do believe many musicians who pursue old technology believe it gives them more Mojo. They hear older musicians use that gear on recordings and appreciate what they could do with it. They think using that technology will be like following in the steps of those musicians and get them the to the same musical skill level.

 

Its all ridiculous of course. Technology allows freedom of musical expression but there is no connection to the actual skill of a player whatsoever. Most manufacturers (especially sales people) are constantly blurring that line between their goods and an actual musicians skill. They'll tell you anything is it gets them more sales.

 

The thing most people who buy vintage gear miss is, the musicians using that gear when it was new "were" using the latest technology in their day. They were seekers pushing the envelope of the technology in new and creative ways. If musicians truly want to match what artists were doing back in the day, it must be in the hear and now, using the latest technology of today, and exploring what that technology can do for them in artistic ways that will be popular tomorrow.

 

There is nothing wrong with exploring Retro of course. You don't become a great artist without studying the art of the past, but you should never be fooled into thinking its a source of art. Art comes from the imagination and skill of the artist. There are physical mechanics in the performing arts of course. Having well designed tools do allow fluent expression of those physical skills, but the tools themselves contain no magic.

 

Its great we have a diverse range of tools an artist can choose the ones he wants to use to express his art but he should always remember he is master over those physical tools, not the other way around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There has always been an interest in retro; it may be just me, but it seems to be accelerating. I wonder if it's because the world is just getting to darn confusing and disjointed for people, and retro is the technological equivalent of comfort food...

 

I think the comfort food aspect is definitely part of it, but it goes further than that. I don't think some of the people who are buying this stuff are old enough to have experienced it the first time around, so it's "new to them" - at least somewhat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I wonder if the way forward is wrapping technology in familiar clothes.

 

Well it certainly makes it easier for users to grab new technologies and move forward. But I would say that's more the rule than the exception. There's probably no good reason to move anyone out of their comfort zone unless absolutely necessary although I commonly find this with new software releases. Why do they feel need to move a button from one side of the screen to the other? 😁

 

Btw... Working with Radar feels just like working with tape but with no threading of reels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • CMS Author

 

I think a lot of people tend to think of "retro" as "high quality". I saw that article and it's really hard for me to think of any of that equipment as "retro"

 

Me, too. The MIDI gear might be considered retro, but for the reason why people want that old sound. I didn't see much point in going back to the Atari computer, though. 30 years ago, I was using Cakewalk and Sequencer Plus, though there were some who argued that Atari's timing was better than anyone else's.

 

First of all I'm old enough to remember when all that stuff came out and second I don't think most people would consider a "Fostex quarter-inch eight-track" to have that "retro" sound if you know what I mean.

 

Unfortunately there are some people digging out Dad's old TEAC and using it as a signal processor. I think that's fine if it's used with a sound in mind and it gives them the sound, but to blindly think what they're getting is "analog tape warmth" is just ignorant.

 

I'm still using my 30 year old Soundcraft console (a 600) but honestly, I'd really like to replace it with a new equivalent. It's just that I've neglected maintenance of it for so long that it's hard to find channels that work without a dose of Cramolin. I could do a complete overhaul, but I really think it's time I got a new toy. I've been waiting for Allen & Heath to decide that they aren't going to sell any more GS-R24 consoles and have a fire sale. Though I suppose that since I paid $8,000 for it in 1985, I can afford to pay another $8,000 for one now.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I do believe many musicians who pursue old technology believe it gives them more Mojo. They hear older musicians use that gear on recordings and appreciate what they could do with it. They think using that technology will be like following in the steps of those musicians and get them the to the same musical skill level.

 

 

Well in a lot of cases the gear does have a lot to do with the MOJO. But the production techniques usually are more important to how a recording might sound. The recording equipment being used in the eighties was not that much different than the equipment being used in the seventies.

But there is a big difference in the sound of the eighties and the sound of the seventies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Well in a lot of cases the gear does have a lot to do with the MOJO. But the production techniques usually are more important to how a recording might sound. The recording equipment being used in the eighties was not that much different than the equipment being used in the seventies.

But there is a big difference in the sound of the eighties and the sound of the seventies.

 

I think a lot of that had to do with the rooms. In the '70s, the trend was towards drier sounding rooms - and records. In the '80s, the idea of "big" came back with a gusto - and a gate.

 

There were some differences in gear between the two decades too, although the differences between 1970s and 1990s era analog recording technology are much starker - Dolby SR NR, high-output tape (3M 996 / Ampex 499), wider range of outboard processors and digital effects, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
To my mind it is those clinging to digital technology that are resisting change. Yep' date=' that's right... digital processing has now been around long enough that it is "The Old Way" to the generation that grew up in it. Tubes and analog may be retro to some of us, what we've always used to others of us, and the new experimental thing to those young enough to have never used analog.[/quote']I was shaking my head (laterally) right up until the very end and then I went, 'Oh!' ;)

 

Indeed, old-and-in-the-way [aka, analog] is the next big thing for the kids who grew up doing everything ITB. The youngest of them came to music after the last big rock revival so many of them have never really played guitars, keyboards or any real world instruments. When I go to songwriting forums elsewhere, much of the discussion is by people sequencing by mouse because they have no piano-key keyboard. Many of them have no idea that MIDI originated as a mass of interconnected hardware devices. MIDI cable -- what's that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I think a lot of people tend to think of "retro" as "high quality". I saw that article and it's really hard for me to think of any of that equipment as "retro"

 

First of all I'm old enough to remember when all that stuff came out and second I don't think most people would consider a "Fostex quarter-inch eight-track" to have that "retro" sound if you know what I mean.

Mike wouldn't. You wouldn't. I wouldn't.

 

But...I frequently read people posting quite poetically about how wonderful and warm their Fostex 64-track-to-the-inch* cassette multitracker is and how FAT it sounds. Oh yeah.

 

(That said, maybe they mean tubby. :D I might agree there.)

 

*IOW, 8 track cassette; they also made a 16 track/1/4" reel deck with the same basic track width.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I call this the Mojo effect. People have been convinced by sales people there is a Magic Wand out there for every artist which will be a short cut creating great works of art without having to put the hard work needed.

 

[..]

[Ellipsed for space.]

 

An excellent post in its entirety!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I call this the Mojo effect. People have been convinced by sales people there is a Magic Wand out there for every artist which will be a short cut creating great works of art without having to put the hard work needed.

 

Respectfully, I think this is a bunch of sh**.

 

Every single young person I know who likes analog or modular synths, vinyl, or old guitars (and I mean old guitars, not guitars made to look old) respects craftsmanship and thinks the stuff is cool. They respond to things that are physical.

 

Why the hell do you expect to market software synths and streaming music and plastic crap to everyone? Do you think every young person will really like this? Or maybe they like something that you grab, twist, pull out of a sleeve, hold, play, etc.

 

Seriously, when are we going to stop selling people's intelligence short? Why do you think whole generations of people will be bamboozled by salespeople?

 

I work with high school people. I hang out with a lot of people who collect vinyl. I bump into a lot of these guys and girls in clubs. And what you describe is just way off the mark.

 

Assuming you're a baby boomer, it's your generation that keeps cramming complete crap down people's throats, only to turn around and think that they're stupid. Hey, that's a great tactic. And then you wonder why none of the bright ones will talk to you.

 

Go into ANY guitar store. ANY guitar store. Sit there a while, and listen to what the fourteen year old is playing. Listen to what the fourteen year old is asking to learn when they meet their music teacher. Yeah. It's metal and classic rock that is from the '60s-late '80s. Why? Because after that, y'all got a stranglehold on marketing and don't let artists be artists anymore. But cynical you might say they're trying to be "retro" and find a "magic wand".

 

Stop being the "you darn kids get off my lawn" guy and actually pay attention to what they say and want. Stop selling whole generations short.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Stop selling whole generations short.

 

The usual manifestation I see of this is people who think making EDM or DJing is just about pushing buttons. That's like saying "It's easy to do mixing. You just move the faders up and down until all the sound is good!" I've met some musicians who have contempt for today's musicians but I guarantee if you put them in front of Traktor and an S4, they would choke.

 

But there are generational differences, no denying that. Take Gibson's automatic tuning. There was a sharp dividing line at 30. People older than that had the attitude of "I don't want that crap on my guitar." People under 30 thought it was great they could push a button and start playing. (Or as my daughter once said, "Dad, why would anyone want a guitar that doesn't tune itself?").

 

Being at Gibson, I've had the opportunity to ask some people why they buy "relic" guitars or replicas of something like a '59 Les Paul. The answers vary. A common one is that the guitar was something they really wanted when they were younger, but they didn't have the money and it meant a lot for them to be able to have the object of their dreams at long last. The "relic" thing appeals to collectors. To some it's a work of art, it's not really about playing guitar.

 

Some people buy something like a '59 re-issue because it was a good guitar then and it's a good guitar now. One person said "Level with me. Is the custom shop stuff really that good? Wouldn't you rather buy a real '59 Les Paul?" And I said I certainly would, because then I could sell it for an outrageous amount of money, buy a couple custom shop models, and have plenty left over. BUT - I play guitars, I don't collect them.

 

The products that claim "Just push a button and be a musician!" don't sell. Most people don't believe it in the first place. Those who do find out that making music is a discipline, and drop it. The music industry keeps hoping there's something that can get "the masses" playing music. The closest I've seen to that is Geo Shred, which I still think is nothing short of amazingly brilliant. Then again, it wasn't designed to "get people playing music." It was designed to be both very cool and very accessible.

 

Anyway, back to retro. I think the reason for retro is simple: things really don't get replaced...they just get recycled. As NBC once said when promoting their summer reruns, "If you haven't seen it before, it's new to you!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...