Members Anderton Posted December 8, 2015 Members Share Posted December 8, 2015 You know the ones I mean...machines from PC Audio Labs, Studio Cat, Sweetwater's Creation Stations, ADK, etc. They cost a bit more but come with the promise of more reliable operation and better service. Then again, you could argue that computers you find these days in Office Depot and the like have become sufficiently powerful that they'll do the job anyway, even if they aren't specifically designed for music. Besides, if you need something like 64 GB of RAM to stream all your virtual instruments from memory instead of a hard drive, you can probably upgrade the memory yourself. So I'm curious how many of you use off-the-shelf computers, how many use "music computers," and whether you feel the need for a custom computer is still important given current technology. (Although of course in a lot of cases you still need to remove a ton of bloatware.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I design, build and tweak my own PC systems from carefully researched component parts, with music recording specifically in mind. Does that qualify? The fact that I still do this instead of just buying an off-the-shelf system from Best Buy or Office Depot or something should give you a clue as to whether or not I think such efforts are necessary or worthwhile, even in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alndln3 Posted December 8, 2015 Members Share Posted December 8, 2015 Same as Phil since the late 90;s. A few times when I was in a lazy mood I considered getting something from ADK but getting an off the shelf name brand PC is my last choice. If I did resort to that I would buy the OS separately and install that instead. A must for most name brand PC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted December 9, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 I use off-the-shelf computers, mostly Dells, that I set up for music applications, which includes booting with the network adapter disabled. However, I do have networking available to move files among local computers, as well as a web browser and an Internet connection that I can use when I need it. For me, it's not about getting the best possible audio performance, but rather to clean up the desktop, reduce the number of running services that I don't need, and support the audio hardware that I don't want to give up. I have a few Firewire cards on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted December 9, 2015 Members Share Posted December 9, 2015 I use ThinkPad computers exclusively and will continue to do so as long as they keep their quality control up. I do one-nighters so the computers bounce around from gig to gig, changing temperature from van to stage, and jiggling on a keyboard stand for much of the night. My oldest ThinkPad was made in 2002 and so far the only failure was the CMOS battery died ($5 replacement). Of course, it's only good for playing mp3 files and displaying sheet music and/or lyrics now, it's too slow for anything else. In the studio I have 2 Win8.1 ThinkPads.I load them with extra RAM and big HDs when I order them. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted December 9, 2015 Members Share Posted December 9, 2015 I think the specialized computers had their day back in the 80's/90's. The actual functionality wasn't any different it was just the package combination that was appealing to some. They had specialized hardware and software in them, extra ports and such. Some had boards with specific drivers written for them, extra slots for expansion, sometimes they even had unique DOS operating system written for them but all of that stuff is obsolete now. All this was done to optimize the limited resources available and reduce latency at that time. I think the last in line might be the Universal Audio boards used to run plugins. Good idea at that time and they did work well. I actually wanted to go that route back then but the cost was prohibitive. I don't think many computers have PCI slots for them any more nor the physical space to run some of them. They did a good job "then" but they are obsolete technology now. CPU's, SS drives Thunderbolt have made them all unnecessary. Computers have advanced so much now you can run all that stuff plus anything you normally do on a computer without it even breaking a sweat. I don't even think there is many unique pieces of hardware out there being sold any more. The problem with specialized computers is the same as stand alone recorders. The companies just went bust and there is no upgrade path unless that company stays in business. You also pay out the ass for everything you purchase so it makes zero sense to anyone with even the smallest amount of sense. I found one place making DAW computers maybe 10 years ago. They had computers being sold for some ridiculous price in the $8K range. After investigating the details I found I could buy and even better computer for around $800. Today you can buy double that processing power for half that price even. Maybe the software package was the big cost but the hardware forget it. I wouldn't doubt that software is even obsolete by the time they were selling it. Look how many times the DAW programs and Interfaces have changed in the past 10 years. Best thing you can do is not get tied down to a centralized system.Its going to wind up being a boat anchor with no resale value within a year and it wont do any better job then what you can buy in any computer store or buy on line. Maybe there's a level of support there if they don't go belly up within a year. I'd get all that in writing though. Computer sales are a volatile industry and only a few major players are still standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JIM683 Posted December 10, 2015 Members Share Posted December 10, 2015 when I first got into recording, I bought a brand new Dell computer to hook up to my Studiolive and Studio One. I called Dell and worked with them on the system to buy, it came in and would not work no matter what I tried. My wife had an old Dell, that somehow worked (even with a firewire driver that was not compatable). After using the old Dell for awhile, I contacted Rain and ordered one of their computers set up for recording. It has served me well for many years now. It has a "virtual computer" inside the computer where I can go do anything on the web and if it gets a virus or anything else, when I close it, its gone. nice for when I need to access the internet and not needing anti-virus software. I can record 16 tracks easily and can mix many more with this computer. Rain went out of business so I don't know what I will do once this one dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It has a "virtual computer" inside the computer where I can go do anything on the web and if it gets a virus or anything else, when I close it, its gone. Sounds like it might be loading the OS into a RAM disk and running it and the browser from there. I don't have that in my PC, but it stays offline for the most part, and it's strictly for music, testing and production. The previous build didn't even have a modem installed in it; whenever I needed to download a DAW software update I'd do it with my Mac, then check it for viruses and other nasties, then put it on a thumb drive and physically walk it over to the PC, where it got checked again, and then copied over to the PC for installation. I've been bitten by PC viruses a couple of times in my life, but never since implementing that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JIM683 Posted December 10, 2015 Members Share Posted December 10, 2015 I don't have that in my PC, but it stays offline for the most part, and it's strictly for music, testing and production. The previous build didn't even have a modem installed in it; whenever I needed to download a DAW software update I'd do it with my Mac, then check it for viruses and other nasties, then put it on a thumb drive and physically walk it over to the PC, where it got checked again, and then copied over to the PC for installation that is the reason for the virtual computer, also, I can use it as a regular computer and surf the net not having to worry about anything. At one time, I used this computer for recording and other things, now, it is recording only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted December 10, 2015 Members Share Posted December 10, 2015 I think the last in line might be the Universal Audio boards used to run plugins. Good idea at that time and they did work well. I actually wanted to go that route back then but the cost was prohibitive. I don't think many computers have PCI slots for them any more nor the physical space to run some of them. They did a good job "then" but they are obsolete technology now. CPU's, SS drives Thunderbolt have made them all unnecessary. Computers have advanced so much now you can run all that stuff plus anything you normally do on a computer without it even breaking a sweat. I don't even think there is many unique pieces of hardware out there being sold any more. The problem with specialized computers is the same as stand alone recorders. The companies just went bust and there is no upgrade path unless that company stays in business. You also pay out the ass for everything you purchase so it makes zero sense to anyone with even the smallest amount of sense. Best thing you can do is not get tied down to a centralized system.Its going to wind up being a boat anchor with no resale value within a year and it wont do any better job then what you can buy in any computer store or buy on line. Maybe there's a level of support there if they don't go belly up within a year. I'd get all that in writing though. Computer sales are a volatile industry and only a few major players are still standing. No doubt changes have happened and will continue to happen - but I wouldn't count out the UAD cards just yet. (They use PCI-e slots which every computer that's not a laptop or pad seem to have in my experience.) Even the standalone recorders are still hanging in there to some extent. If nothing else, stability, reliability, ease of operation, freedom from upgrades and conflicts and all that count for a great deal for a lot of studios, home and pro. I do like Phil - I carefully shop components and put my own tower PCs together, dedicated to DAW work. But sure, the i7 windows computer I put together 7 years ago is still plenty powerful for what I need, and I can upgrade specific components as needed to deal with bottlenecks or breakdowns as they occur. The tower market has shrunk terrifically, yes. But I think there still is a solid market for people who want to customize and tinker and actually understand what their computer is and does and can do. But the computer that does everything - usually craps out in certain applications in certain situations. And of course, the computer industry oversells everything, always. We will all upgrade (or crossgrade more likely) in time, but the cutting edge is still bloodstained and probably always will be. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 that is the reason for the virtual computer, also, I can use it as a regular computer and surf the net not having to worry about anything. At one time, I used this computer for recording and other things, now, it is recording only It's really a smart idea. I've used RAM disks before, but never thought of using one for that purpose, as a kind of "virtual" PC. I'm going to have to try experimenting with that myself and see if I can put something similar together. With 16GB of RAM (which I've been thinking about upgrading to 32GB), I think I have enough to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 No doubt changes have happened and will continue to happen - but I wouldn't count out the UAD cards just yet. (They use PCI-e slots which every computer that's not a laptop or pad seem to have in my experience.) Even the standalone recorders are still hanging in there to some extent. If nothing else, stability, reliability, ease of operation, freedom from upgrades and conflicts and all that count for a great deal for a lot of studios, home and pro. Don't forget that Universal Audio also has the Apollo interfaces with UAD processing on-board, as well as Thunderbolt and Firewire DSP products that run UAD plugins. I've reviewed a few of their plugs and use their processing regularly, and I'm a big fan. I don't expect UA and/or UAD-2 products to be going away any time soon. I sure hope they don't - it's one of the coolest companies, with some of the coolest hardware AND plug-in stuff around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted December 10, 2015 Members Share Posted December 10, 2015 Smaller has definitely been the trend. My wife works at HP and I got to try out one of their new laptops that will be released next year. That thing smokes man. I was booted in 10 seconds and I couldn't find any kind of latency switching screens. Its got thunderbolt too I thought about using one of those for recording but I'd have to get a new interface and I'd be dealing with external drives and all that happy HS. I think the Thunderbolt interfaces are still pretty high priced at this point and the selection is limited. The main here is, computer only have so many standard ports for communication. PCI, PCIe, Firewire, USB and Thunderbolt. The protocol used for these ports is going to be the same whether its a boutique, hand built or store bought computer. You aren't going to get any thing faster or reliable out of a boutique computer hardware wise if the specs match. There used to be some differences in chip sets and CPU types in the past. HP used Intel chipsets for years which is why they ran better and cost more. I'm not even sure that's true any more. Celeron processors were Pentium's that failed the math test so they aren't a good choice for audio. The newer AMD and Intel's are well beyond having issues any more especially on dual and quad core boards. None of these boutique computers will use anything different then a store bought computer of equal specs. You can probably save 1/2 the cost buying a store bought and 2/3 on building your own. What does set them apart is optimization. Optimizing a computer for audio isn't that hard and if you are paying 10 times the cost for a boutique that's optimized for audio you're just being foolish with your money. I been optimizing audio computers my win 3.1 days. There's a bunch of Registry tweaks you can do and a bunch of the services that come running on most computers will never be used. You can shut down half of that BS running in the background and gain stability. You don't gain much speed anymore however. With multiple cores running you can run all that crap and still have a smoking computer for audio. This is why many don't even bother tweaking their computers any more. Most store bought computers have all that office networking and management related stuff set up and running so the most illiterate individuals can get most thing to run. All they do is suck CPU power and you can reduce the workload and avoid crashes by shutting a bunch of that stuff down. You may never notice the difference unless you are pushing the computer to its limits. Then one service kicking on to do an antivirus scan or some other timed task may occur which creates a CPU usage bump and freezes the DAW program just when you're getting ready to hit the save button. Cant count the number of times that's happened to me. The only way you know some of the tweaks work is by having a project fully loaded like that. If it crashes before the tweak and runs well after you know you saved some resources with that tweak. You can find tons of tweaks out there by just goggling too. That Black viper site is a great place to start. You just want to be sure you create a system restore point poking before you go poking around. Maybe do some screen shots of your stock setting so you can swap them back if you loose functionality of something you didn't expect. I never run antivirus or networking on my DAW's. Its a real big resource sucker. I do run a firewall. It doesn't consume allot of resources and if you are set for stealth it does a fair job of protection. For awhile I did have it on a private network so I could transfer files over to my mastering daw. I even ran a server for awhile. but I dumped all of that when the cost of large thumb drives went down. Its much faster just to walk files over to the other computer then it is to move them through network cards. I can connect to the internet if I need to register some software or something but it doesn't connect on boot up. I'd would disable my network card if I could. It is a big consumer of resources. Pulling it frees up IRQ's and the buss has less to deal with. Its like clearing a lane on the highway. Unfortunately I run Harbal which uses the card's MAC address as part of the software password. If you were to put the program on another computer you have to reregister the new mac address as part of the setup. I don't have to keep it connected to the internet, I just have to have an operational card plugged in. Kind of sucks but what can you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted December 11, 2015 Members Share Posted December 11, 2015 I design, build and tweak my own PC systems from carefully researched component parts, with music recording specifically in mind. This ^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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