Members Beck Posted November 16, 2015 Members Share Posted November 16, 2015 I almost started the topic with OT: But on second thought I don't think it's OT. I'm contemplating the true martial power musicians, writers, engineers, producers, etc, have in modern warfare. Could significantly impact its outcome. Just something to think about. When the synth comes in at 1:18 it eerily reminds me of a song a wrote for the Israeli Air Force some 25 years ago. Other than that I have no experience with this "genre." I don't want this to be political, like whether we should be seeking peace or war, so if you would please try to keep this thread on topic by analyzing the impact of the music and visuals... focusing on music as warfare. I remember years ago back in the late 70's Ted Nugent said something about his weapon of choice in battle would be a guitar. Maybe that's not as ridiculous as it sounds. [video=youtube;lzno-tvnX1g] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 16, 2015 Members Share Posted November 16, 2015 Did you see the new Mad Max movie that came out this past Summer? One of the most indelible images is of the guitar player leading the column of armed vehicles. Music is a powerful force and of course, is therefore a logical choice for propaganda of any kind...good, bad, or indifferent. Think of the role music has played in religion, politics, movies...all you have to do is hum a couple bars of the "Darth Vader" theme, and everyone knows what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted November 16, 2015 Members Share Posted November 16, 2015 We all live in stories. What we read, hear, watch, experience, all gets knit together as narrative of some sort. It's an old truism in history that the last people to know what is really going on are the people on the ground when things are actually happening. It's only later that it all gets sorted out in the form of competing, explanatory stories. Multimedia has an overwhelming power to convince and reinforce a given story as a virtual experience of the events under consideration. It's a sort of sophistry, no question. But what, these days, isn't? When you ponder, say, the The Vietnam War - what resonates in your mind? The top 15 books on the subject, all read and carefully considered and discussed with other knowledgeable and thoughtful readers? Or is it Martin Sheen and Robert Duvall on the beach, in the boat, in the jungle, while The Doors music weaves the atmosphere of a distant time and place? Is war meaningless and bad because that's the conclusion reached after reading philosophers and theologians and social critics and historians debating the idea of a just war? Or is it bad because you've seen the footage and the movie and heard the stories from people who came back? nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 16, 2015 Members Share Posted November 16, 2015 When I think of war, in general, this song is never far from my mind: I'm not anti-religion by any means. I've often defended theist belief from broadside attacks by atheist proselytes. (I do 'hate' proselytes -- or at least proselytization -- hate the sin, not the sinner, eh? -- of all stripes.) But it's also clear that when man wants to justify his most barbaric and cruel actions, he often uses 'God' as an excuse. And that seems bizarrely, perversely ungodly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted November 16, 2015 Members Share Posted November 16, 2015 When I think of war, in general, this song is never far from my mind: But it's also clear that when man wants to justify his most barbaric and cruel actions, he often uses 'God' as an excuse. And that seems bizarrely, perversely ungodly. Any absolute will do to justify barbaric and cruel actions. For people who believe in God as the ultimate arbiter of moral issues, of course they have to figure out how to square their actions with their theology. I doubt seriously that, were the world to go 100% atheist,that man's inhumanity to man would diminish in the slightest. It's the ability to rationalize at the root, not the content of any specific rationalization, that's the thing. Cut one self-serving absolute off, another will grow in it's place. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted November 17, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2015 No doubt popular music has played a huge role in rallying nations in war time. I think of my dad's generation... "The Greatest Generation" and how pop music in the 40's inspired them during WWII. In our current conflict with radical Islamic terrorism there's a perception that groups like Al-Qaeda and ISIS were way ahead of us in using the Internet for propaganda and recruitment. The West was a little slow in using the power of Internet multimedia. This video from the French Air Force (Armée de l'air) is pretty slick. The propaganda war is half the battle IMO, and thus I see how crucial the music community can be in deciding the outcome of a conflict. I just read recently that the hacker group "Anonymous" has declared a cyber war on ISIS and vows to wipe them off the cyber map, diminishing their capabilities in #OpISIS. That could do as much damage as, if not more than any bombing campaign since so many people have been radicalized through Internet chat and multimedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 17, 2015 Members Share Posted November 17, 2015 Absolutely Beck. We here at HC know the power of music and how it can be used to manipulate the masses… unfortunately it is used by goverments as well for their own selfish reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted November 17, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2015 And I’m not even looking at music per se, but more at Internet multimedia in particular and even more particularly critiquing the effectiveness of a given video or multimedia campaign. Of course we're all familiar with music in history... or maybe not. I suppose for many people who are not all that interested in history, the music of say WWII would not be familiar to them. Nor would they be familiar with enemy propaganda from radio personalities like Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally, whose mission was to demoralize Allied troops. Now days those types are operating in much more subtle ways on social networks like facebook, generating memes and such. Those who are aware of propaganda in history are less likely to start waving a white flag of surrender when trouble comes. Others are textbook examples of how well propaganda and terrorism works. You know the old truism, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." It's been paraphrased in different ways, but the idea to the historian is more along the lines of, "Those who are ignorant of, or refuse to study the past are doomed to repeat it." Some people have a better memory than others, but anyone can study history and thus be better prepared for the future. http://www.historynet.com/axis-sally.htm Anyway, I've never seen a discussion on the use of our tools (Music, audio/video, recording, production, the web, etc) in war. We've all seen those early Al-Qaeda recruitment videos... so old they show Al-Qaeda members doing target practice on images of President Bill Clinton. For the first time lately I've been looking at the production, the details of the imagery and the background music. In the past I've not taken the time to find out what the music is in the background and what significance it has to those they're trying to reach. I'm not so sure we are as well acquainted with how effectively multimedia is being used as a weapon as we should be. A couple interesting articles below... first from almost 10 years ago... good read. The second one goes into some detail about the music of ISIS https://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2006/03/15/al-qaedas-soundtrack/ http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/09/nasheed-how-isis-got-its-anthem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted November 20, 2015 Members Share Posted November 20, 2015 I remember years ago back in the late 70's Ted Nugent said something about his weapon of choice in battle would be a guitar. Maybe that's not as ridiculous as it sounds. --------------------------------------------------------------- Makes sense- there was this time when I was in high school...some guys piled out of souped a Chevy Nova, and a Chevelle, 9 of them, looking to whoop my a** for carrying a violin to school, or just because, I dunno. I heard the unmistakable strains of the down and dirty "Cat Scratch Fever" playing as they rolled up though. I could tell you the tale of a Hero (that Hero was not me) but, I suppose that'd be OT. Suffice to say I left the scene unscathed, and boogied for an arts school in short order . When we went after Noriega didn't we soften him up with around the clock Boy George and the like? Hi Beck! Long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted November 22, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 22, 2015 I remember years ago back in the late 70's Ted Nugent said something about his weapon of choice in battle would be a guitar. Maybe that's not as ridiculous as it sounds. --------------------------------------------------------------- Makes sense- there was this time when I was in high school...some guys piled out of souped a Chevy Nova, and a Chevelle, 9 of them, looking to whoop my a** for carrying a violin to school, or just because, I dunno. I heard the unmistakable strains of the down and dirty "Cat Scratch Fever" playing as they rolled up though. I could tell you the tale of a Hero (that Hero was not me) but, I suppose that'd be OT. Suffice to say I left the scene unscathed, and boogied for an arts school in short order . When we went after Noriega didn't we soften him up with around the clock Boy George and the like? Hi Beck! Long time... Too bad you didn't have one of these violin cases. That'll teach them! Yeah, I've heard of the military and law enforcement using loud music as a weapon in siege operations. I'm not sure about Boy George, but many hours of that might cause even me to surrender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted November 22, 2015 Members Share Posted November 22, 2015 I, never in my entire lifetime, thought I could ever write or play any song that would, or could, influence anyone to do anything to hurt or heal another person. I never felt I had within my power to bring about World Peace, Encourage Recycling, or End Global Warming. I do not possess the talents.. All I ever wanted to be able to do was make people want to dance...Or do the Wild thing. Haven't managed to do that either...But I think I've given a few people a giggle or two.Mission accomplished. I'll leave all this other stuff to the heavy hitters among you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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