Members techristian Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 Check this out. A bit of history ???? http://themindunleashed.org/2015/09/the-a432-hz-frequency-dna-tuning-and-the-bastardization-of-music.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordptrn Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 Yeah I'll just keep using A440 like 99.999999% of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 Seems about right. Positive / Negative; Right wing / Left wing; Good / Evil, if everything was the same, nothing would happen. As the article indicates, A 440 might have been to stir schitt up by sympathetic vibration and no doubt clear some bandwidth for who knows what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted October 17, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Dare to be different. Tune to whatever reference pitch you like. But you'd better have a good budget if you have a real piano on your session. Or an autoharp, accordion, or a harmonica, or a bugle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 It's fun to speculate but let's not get totally stupid on this. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 If you stop to consider that EVERYTHING is a combination of frequencies at their repective amplitudes or vice versa, then what would you consider totally stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 I tune from the grassy knoll. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted October 18, 2015 Members Share Posted October 18, 2015 If you stop to consider that EVERYTHING is a combination of frequencies at their repective amplitudes or vice versa' date=' then what would you consider totally stupid?[/quote'] I would consider thinking that the linked article put forth a rigorous, convincing, scientifically sound argument to be totally stupid. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 18, 2015 Members Share Posted October 18, 2015 The Mind Unleashed is like a cornucopia of utter nonsense. One of my very nice but super-non-scientifically oriented friends posted this article from them just earlier today: New Research Supports The Theory That Water Has Memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory Skeptical Inquirer: The Memory of Water The descriptions of the responses from the 'scientist' (he actually is university trained, apparently) are particularly humorous. The ultra-gullible (and that's plenty, apparently) just keep recycling this stuff -- and, of course, the hucksters in the food supplements/homeopathic industry glam onto anything they can use to sell some air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 18, 2015 Members Share Posted October 18, 2015 The Mind Unleashed is like a cornucopia of utter nonsense. That which we are calling reality is a construct of the so called brain in the first place. I would consider thinking that the linked article put forth a rigorous, convincing, scientifically sound argument to be totally stupid. nat whilk ii Fair enough. Nobody said it was true. Just know that there's enough high energy tech to modulate "the tonality" in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 18, 2015 Members Share Posted October 18, 2015 That which we are calling reality is a construct of the so called brain in the first place. [...] I think it's kind of miraculous that mind can arise from biological brain matter and energy transfer -- it's kind of a solemn miracle to me. Which is why I think it's so important for my mind to try to use my brain to gain greater understanding of the complex reality around me that I perceive. I fully understand that my perception of that reality is highly imperfect. Perhaps, indeed, the ultimate reality is that there is no experience, no past, no present, no future, only the illusion of such a flow -- a single point of existence inventing its own backstory and imagined future -- a sort of cosmic consolation prize. That's an amusing conceit when you're 12 or 13 lying on a grassy hill looking up into the sky and letting your mind wander. But what does one conceptualize for an encore? Talk about your existential dilemma. So, once one resigns oneself to some form of apparent existence, one has little excuse not to learn about that existence. And -- in the particular stream of existence I seem to exist in -- that existence, over the course of continued investigation and ongoing integration of experiences, increasingly appears consistent and guided by coherent and comprehensible natural laws. It also appears to include other mental entities who appear to use experience that parallels my own in some ways in order to attempt to communicate, to build simple logical states of agreement and disagreement into informational constructs that can be signaled symbolically. In my stream of experience, those apparent other entities seem to have communicated highly complex and coherent constructs which I have, over years of attempts to integrate and comprehend, found to be highly descriptive of my own experience. Part of the organizational schema used to investigate and communicate that experiential data is a set of logical constructs and practical approaches designed to deliver on an ongoing basis a continually improving understanding of the apparent mutual reality shared by myself and those entities. Those other entities often call it the Scientific Method. I'm a fan of capital-M Mystery -- it's what drives our quest for knowledge. But real respect for that Mystery seems to me to demand a rigorous and fearless approach to learning and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted October 18, 2015 CMS Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 I tune from the grassy knoll. 😉 I knew a guy who used to tune to the telephone dial tone, which is very close enough to B-flat for folk music. I know there are dozens of tuner apps for smart phones, but maybe there should be one that plays a dial tone. Who knows? With the vinyl comeback, and now it's cassettes coming around again, maybe people will get rid of those pesky 1-cent resolution tuners and go back to tuning like in the vinyl or wire recorder days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 19, 2015 Members Share Posted October 19, 2015 In the US, landline dialtones are generally a duotone of 350 Hz (aprx F4) and 440 (A4) -- the 440 Hz (A) is very tiny amount under an Equal Temperament major third above the 350 Hz. (At A=440, F4 is 349.23.) 440 / 350 = 1.257142857142857 A major third in ET temperament is 1.259921 -- whereas the mathematically correct but musically 'inflexible' Just Intonation system has the interval at 1.25. [if it was a Just major third, of course, there would be no beat tone when the tones are combined because they'd be in perfect harmony. An ET major third is just under 14 cents sharp of a Just third, so you get a beat tone when they're combined, which is, of course why ET instruments like keyboards and conventional fretted instruments can never be perfectly 'in tune' with themselves. Wikipediai: Equal Temerament.] So, yeah, a landline phone is a reasonable reference in a pinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Look folks, I really don't care what frequency you want to standardize and call "A", but please pick one and stick to it. Whenever you record something that's "in the cracks" (between pitches, as was common when tape varispeed was used), it messes with my brain for a second or two. Perfect pitch is not without its drawbacks. Of course, I've been guilty of putting things out that were not in standard tuning myself... and whenever I hear one of those tracks, it REALLY messes with my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 20, 2015 Members Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think it's kind of miraculous that mind can arise from biological brain matter and energy transfer -- it's kind of a solemn miracle to me. Which is why I think it's so important for my mind to try to use my brain to gain greater understanding of the complex reality around me that I perceive. I fully understand that my perception of that reality is highly imperfect. Perhaps, indeed, the ultimate reality is that there is no experience, no past, no present, no future, only the illusion of such a flow -- a single point of existence inventing its own backstory and imagined future -- a sort of cosmic consolation prize. That's an amusing conceit when you're 12 or 13 lying on a grassy hill looking up into the sky and letting your mind wander. But what does one conceptualize for an encore? Talk about your existential dilemma. So, once one resigns oneself to some form of apparent existence, one has little excuse not to learn about that existence. And -- in the particular stream of existence I seem to exist in -- that existence, over the course of continued investigation and ongoing integration of experiences, increasingly appears consistent and guided by coherent and comprehensible natural laws. It also appears to include other mental entities who appear to use experience that parallels my own in some ways in order to attempt to communicate, to build simple logical states of agreement and disagreement into informational constructs that can be signaled symbolically. In my stream of experience, those apparent other entities seem to have communicated highly complex and coherent constructs which I have, over years of attempts to integrate and comprehend, found to be highly descriptive of my own experience. Part of the organizational schema used to investigate and communicate that experiential data is a set of logical constructs and practical approaches designed to deliver on an ongoing basis a continually improving understanding of the apparent mutual reality shared by myself and those entities. Those other entities often call it the Scientific Method. I'm a fan of capital-M Mystery -- it's what drives our quest for knowledge. But real respect for that Mystery seems to me to demand a rigorous and fearless approach to learning and understanding. Nice prose. Thing is you can't keep your head buried in the box - not when the borders are your cognitivity. Interesting; Spellcheck can't spell cognitivity. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 20, 2015 Members Share Posted October 20, 2015 Nice prose. Thing is you can't keep your head buried in the box - not when the borders are your cognitivity. Interesting; Spellcheck can't spell cognitivity. lol Precisely. As Ram Dass reminded us: be here now. This illusion is the best semblance of reality I have at my disposal -- and, as I obliquely tried to suggest, I've put a lot of work into trying to get it as 'accurate' as possible with reference to concordance of understanding with ongoing experience -- in no small part because earlier versions of my semblance of reality often delivered me to results I found at odds with my desired perceived experience; this life may be all solipsistic illusion, but I've tried to improve my game within that illusion. What else do I have? PS... sometime within the last few weeks, Google Chrome spell-check seems to have experienced some sort of virtual mini-stroke or something. Huge numbers of words and trade names that formerly were accepted as correct are now being flagged with wavy red lines. (Maybe it was something I did on my Android phone or tablet trying to ease the cluster-fudge of text entry on those devices -- but at no time did I delete my Chrome spell check customization dictionary or anything.) PPS... Just dug through to my Google Chrome custom user dictionary and took a peak into my very short dictionary text file -- it only showed words I'd re-added in the last week or so. Apparently, my entire Chrome user dictionary got wiped out within the last week or two! I know one thing, it was not me that burrowed into that sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-etc folder to delete it. PPS... Opening that spellcheck custom dictionary (it's a text doc) in my currently favored text editor (Notepad++), which has its own spell check, was a good move -- as I'd inadvertently added a couple of misspellings, frustrated when Chrome spell-check was not forthcoming with suggestions and googling turned up the spellings in question in use at sites one would expect to be proofread (I know better than that but, you know, when you're already ticked off). PPPS -- MAYBE what had happened was that (somehow) 'Ask Google for Suggestions' (it still offered correct spelling suggestions when it had them; apparently, the 'ask Google' option sends out a live request to the G servers for updated dictionaries, I guess) had got turned off. Chrome was flagging embeddable as misspelled despite having added it to my dictionary and confirming it was there -- but then I saw that 'Ask Google for Suggestions' was turned off. As soon as I turned it on, the red line under embeddable went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted October 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 21, 2015 I just found it LOGICAL and interesting that the pitch table should start with C being a power of 2 . But yes, try and find other instruments to conform to this and you may be in trouble. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 21, 2015 Members Share Posted October 21, 2015 I just found it LOGICAL and interesting that the pitch table should start with C being a power of 2 . But yes, try and find other instruments to conform to this and you may be in trouble. Dan The fact that Phi/Golden Ratio is so key in morphogenesis (the biological process that causes an organism to develop its shape) in humans and throughout nature suggests that there may be an interesting yet little-known relationship between the galactic harmonic of 432 that shows up in our solar system and the Golden Ratio. What's logic got to do with something like that? What does the Golden Ratio have to do with it? Pseudo-science types love it -- and chakras and fractals and fanciful takes on quantum mechanics -- because there is so much room for obfuscation and idle conjecture. As Wolfram Math World notes: In the Season 1 episode "Sabotage" (2005) of the television crime drama NUMB3RS' date=' math genius Charlie Eppes mentions that the golden ratio is found in the pyramids of Giza and the Parthenon at Athens. Similarly, the character Robert Langdon in the novel [/size']The Da Vinci Code makes similar such statements (Brown 2003, pp. 93-95). However, claims of the significance of the golden ratio appearing prominently in art, architecture, sculpture, anatomy, etc., tend to be greatly exaggerated. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoldenRatio.html C being based on 128 Hz -- how is that cosmic? It relates to Hertz -- cycles per second. A second is an arbitrary division of time [1/86400th] based on the approximate average time it takes for the earth to turn on its axis. There is no cosmic harmonic value to that particular division, it's arbitrary, with the approximate day divided in 24ths and then those 24ths further divided into 60ths and then 60ths again. Arbitrary. And then the mile-based 'cosmic math.' LOL! Oh, yeah, the naturally occurring unit, the MILE. That article is so chock-full of complete and utter nonsense it's simply mind-boggling to think that even the vacuum-heads at TheMindUnleashed would print it. BTW The Womfram MathWorld article shows how real citations to previous publications and papers are done. PS... I'm not being critical of you, Dan. But these new age pseudo science sites are beginning to really annoy me. Some of my FB friends -- those friends being about a 2/3 divide between arty, mystical, boho types and a logical, sciency minority -- post stuff like that a lot. Between that and often blatantly bogus political misinformation and intentionally fabricated quotes (now available on both the left and right!), I'm developing something of an attitude. PPS... Of course, the BS-factory doesn't only put out new-agey and political BS -- there's music industry BS, too, as this Forbes article points out: Sorry Internet, Taylor Swift Isn't Going To Earn $365 Million This Year Among the many news outlets taking this thoroughly bogus story as gospel were the UK's Daily Mail, MSN, and Business Insider. No fact-checking whatsoever before they picked it up and ran with it. We'd like to think that their political news coverage isn't as shoddy as their entertainment business coverage. But... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted October 22, 2015 Members Share Posted October 22, 2015 The history of the standardization of pitch is well-known and highly documented - it's such a simple, straightforward bit of history that Wikipedia offers a nice, probably reliable, non-controversial version of it. There was a contingent that liked the "scientific" idea of having all the C frequencies come out as powers of two - I don't think it was because they believed it was tied to some sort of cosmic, fundamental frequency - but more like it was a reasonable preference for a system that could be worked with so neatly in math terms. A very Enlightenment type of preference - I'd be surprised if many of the musicians themselves cared less about the math. With the development of the international classical music industry, the need for standardization became acute for obvious reasons. The governments got into the fray because in the nationalistic tenor of the times, there was a lot of national pride and glory in the music being created. And a lot of instruments would be rendered non-compliant, which of course instrument players didn't like - so there was a lot at stake for a lot of participants. One reason (among others) the article can get away with it's nonsense because there's no reason the average person would know a thing about this little geeky corner of music history - by the way, the A-440 standard is still not followed by all parties all the time. But I don't think you could find any evidence that any of this was driven by the concerted efforts across international lines and over centuries by the secret enemies of cosmic vibrational harmony. The article is so badly written and absurd, it reads almost like an Onion version of such articles. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted October 22, 2015 Members Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well I for one wish my music to stimulate my Adenine and Guanine, not encourage me to goosestep to the Nazi frequencies that I've been using. I've got to do some recording at A=432. When I lived in Bezerkely, I used to go to Shamballa New Age bookstore... I picked up this book written by an elderly psychic woman (forget her name now). She did allege that there were certain musics that would bring angels down from the heavens into the space of the human listener. One I remember was Respighi's THE FOUNTAINS OF ROME. She also said the 1965 movie soundtrack of THE SOUND OF MUSIC would bring angels down into your room, but ONLY if you listened to the album in its entirety, and with all the songs in sequence. I think she also said the organ music of Olivier Messaien was psychically enlightened and therapeutic... She said the most diabolic and evil piece she'd ever heard was Ravel's BOLERO. That one summons demons, not angels. She said that, if you compare two different recordings of the same song as performed by Bob Dylan and Joan Baez, you'll notice that the Dylan version stimulates the Belly Chakra, while the Baez version stimulates the Heart and Throat Chakras (which is more desirable, as the Belly Chakra is the chakra of ownership, bellicosity, greed and possessiveness, while the Heart and Throat Chakras are more loving and transcendent). There is also a New Age guy named Mark Halpern who also has written extensively on the psychic properties of sound and music. He says that our American households, with their wirings set to 50Hz and 60Hz are driving us all crazy... apparently those are pernicious frequencies to be exposed to for long periods of time. He also said the constant whirring of your refrigerator and central A/C were pernicious and fatiguing. Hmm... he said that one of his happiest moments was when lightning shorted out the electricity in his home... All appliances ceased their humming, and for once he was exposed to a healthy, relaxing auditory environment. Want more psychic info on sound? Read the admittedly fascinating article THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND, by Dick Sutphen. You may read the whole essay here: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TR/sutphen.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iamthesky Posted October 22, 2015 Members Share Posted October 22, 2015 When I was younger, we did listen to The Sound of Music soundtrack all the way through in order, and no angels appeared. Perhaps more disappointingly, no demons appeared the many times we listened to Bolero. Have to kind of agree with her on Messaien, though. Apparently mosquito antennae vibrate in the 440-500 Hz range, if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted October 23, 2015 Members Share Posted October 23, 2015 Look folks, I really don't care what frequency you want to standardize and call "A", but please pick one and stick to it. Whenever you record something that's "in the cracks" (between pitches, as was common when tape varispeed was used), it messes with my brain for a second or two. Here's a "between the cracks" record... Is the piano playing an open D major chord? Or a C# major chord? (Neither one sounds correct if I try to play along with the record). [video=youtube;9pMuAgsZ2oo] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 24, 2015 Members Share Posted October 24, 2015 Well I for one wish my music to stimulate my Adenine and Guanine, not encourage me to goosestep to the Nazi frequencies that I've been using. I've got to do some recording at A=432. When I lived in Bezerkely, I used to go to Shamballa New Age bookstore... I picked up this book written by an elderly psychic woman (forget her name now). She did allege that there were certain musics that would bring angels down from the heavens into the space of the human listener. One I remember was Respighi's THE FOUNTAINS OF ROME. She also said the 1965 movie soundtrack of THE SOUND OF MUSIC would bring angels down into your room, but ONLY if you listened to the album in its entirety, and with all the songs in sequence. I think she also said the organ music of Olivier Messaien was psychically enlightened and therapeutic... She said the most diabolic and evil piece she'd ever heard was Ravel's BOLERO. That one summons demons, not angels. She said that, if you compare two different recordings of the same song as performed by Bob Dylan and Joan Baez, you'll notice that the Dylan version stimulates the Belly Chakra, while the Baez version stimulates the Heart and Throat Chakras (which is more desirable, as the Belly Chakra is the chakra of ownership, bellicosity, greed and possessiveness, while the Heart and Throat Chakras are more loving and transcendent). There is also a New Age guy named Mark Halpern who also has written extensively on the psychic properties of sound and music. He says that our American households, with their wirings set to 50Hz and 60Hz are driving us all crazy... apparently those are pernicious frequencies to be exposed to for long periods of time. He also said the constant whirring of your refrigerator and central A/C were pernicious and fatiguing. Hmm... he said that one of his happiest moments was when lightning shorted out the electricity in his home... All appliances ceased their humming, and for once he was exposed to a healthy, relaxing auditory environment. Want more psychic info on sound? Read the admittedly fascinating article THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND, by Dick Sutphen. You may read the whole essay here: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TR/sutphen.html Well, I'm in complete agreement on the various tensions and emotional discords that random and recurring noises in most urban or even home environments can present -- and certainly one can come to hate the pitch of the power hum in his particular system. I know with my first stereo I was fighting nasty 60 Hz hum and grew to despise the sound. That said, I don't think I would have found 66 Hz or 72 Hz any much more tolerable. Certainly as the pitch of such noises goes up or down there will variance in effect but I suspect that that effect would likely vary along with pitch although probably with distinct nonlinearities. All us humans absolutely have different resonances and nonlinearities of other kinds in our auditory systems -- but most of those tend to vary from person to person and over time for a single person. I don't think there are too many 'universal' resonances that are the same from person to person. At least not in the auditory system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted October 24, 2015 Members Share Posted October 24, 2015 Well, I'm in complete agreement on the various tensions and emotional discords that random and recurring noises in most urban or even home environments can present -- and certainly one can come to hate the pitch of the power hum in his particular system. I know with my first stereo I was fighting nasty 60 Hz hum and grew to despise the sound. That said, I don't think I would have found 66 Hz or 72 Hz any much more tolerable. Certainly as the pitch of such noises goes up or down there will variance in effect but I suspect that that effect would likely vary along with pitch although probably with distinct nonlinearities. All us humans absolutely have different resonances and nonlinearities of other kinds in our auditory systems -- but most of those tend to vary from person to person and over time for a single person. I don't think there are too many 'universal' resonances that are the same from person to person. At least not in the auditory system. What you have said is very profound, and has profound implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 24, 2015 Members Share Posted October 24, 2015 Well, I notice the way that I hear sound changes from day to day, even hour to hour. You swallow, you yawn, things change. If you really listen. Of course, subconscious auditory interpretation processes, in parallel with how the extraction of 'environmental' information from sound (environmental cues that tell you how big a place is, what the texture of the walls and floors/ceilings are, the humidity of the air, existence of windows, puddles of water, etc) are generally processed outside the realm of attended consciousness -- as are the day to day body condition changes -- at least until they become too great. ("I sure am stuffed up today -- it's like I'm hearing everything through soggy Kleenex.") Even turning one's head a few degrees can produce quite noticeable changes. We tend to 'filter' those changes out as environmental cues, but they're there if one listens closely enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.