Is Microsoft Going to Go Boom or Bust with Windows 10?

[Anderton]

Windows 10 is radical departure for Microsoft. That may not be obvious - yet. But I've seen how the "rolling update" thing works with Cakewalk, and it can be a really good way to keep software "tuned up," as well as introduce new features on a paced schedule. That said, a DAW and an operating system are very different things.

 

Operating systems tend to be more staid, so introducing small changes will avoid the "where the hell is the thing that used to be here" effect that happens with major updates. If Microsoft manages this aspect right, Windows 10 will do well. It will also adapt to changing market conditions quickly. If it had been in place when Windows 8 came out, you can bet the Start button would have appeared in an update a couple weeks later.

 

But where MS can blow it is if they financialize the experience so much that it feels like we're watching an extended TV home shopping network show. instead of running a computer. This is where the slippery slope of "no privacy" looks a little better...maybe the new Edge browser will serve up only things that really, really interest me. But maybe not, and there will be constant intrusions.

 

I tend to think the reception will be mixed at first, with strongly pro and con. Over time, though, I think Microsoft will get it right. Probably the worst fate isn't if everyone hates it, but if no one cares.

[Mandolin Picker]

During the run up to Windows 10 release I was cautiously optimistic. Now that Windows 10 is here, that optimism has pretty much faded.

 

Automatic updates that the user has no control over is a REALLY BAD idea. With their first major update after releasing the OS into the wild, they had a number of folks who found themselves in a reboot nightmare. The 'solution' was to go in a modify the registry. Now this is really an interesting solution since the main reason for auto updates was that 'average' folks weren't 'smart enough' to update on their own, but now apparently they are smart enough to go into the registry and change things around.

 

Side Note to Microsoft - Just because I use a 'Home' version of your OS doesn't mean I don't do REAL work on it. It simply means I don't need the networking tools that come with the Pro version of Windows.

 

Then there is the privacy issues. Buried deep within the bowels of the OS is the options to bring back some bits of privacy to the OS. Although I have to wonder if that even works. I am waiting to read that some researcher has found that MS still collects data that you marked as being private. As someone once said (I think it may have been on this board) and I paraphrase, "When Microsoft gives away their OS for free, it is because you have become the product."

 

The EULA is just horrendous. You give away nearly everything when you click OK

 

I don't like Apple products because of the control they exert (think Apple Store). MS appears to now be trying the same thing. It looks like the road ahead is that everything you want to install on Windows will have to be purchased through the Windows Store. That means they control what you can and cannot install on your computer. I'm sure in the future (if this takes hold) that you will get all kinds of warnings if you try to install something that you downloaded elsewhere, and may eventually get to the point where you can't install anything not 'MS Certified', for your own safety of course.

 

I have been with Windows since Version 1, used Visual Basic 1, and was a proponent of MS in the early years. That has all changed as time has progressed. I had hoped Windows 10 was a true change, and in many ways it really is, but not in the direction I had hoped. A gilded cage is still a cage.

[Notes_Norton]

I think what happened is with Apple, Linux, Android and others out there, MS figured the OS was no longer going to be their cash cow.

 

They also see Apple and Google making >$4 and >$2 billion per year on their 30% share of the apps in the app store.

 

They also see Apple and Google selling your data to advertisers and making billions from that.

 

The PC market is dwindling as the tablets and phones have attracted the casual users, and they buy apps too.

 

So I'm thinking MS saw the change in the business and decided to adapt and evolve or become a dinosaur.

 

Will it work?

 

I suspect it will, but there will be initial problems. But then I remember when people on the web said, "Don't give up your Win98 because XP is crap."

 

MS will iron out the bugs. I read that if you don't want automatic updates, you need to get Win10Pro - I haven't investigated that and only read it on the Internet ('nuff said about that).

 

I'll eventually get it, but I'll wait for the dust to settle first. Cutting edge can be bleeding edge.

 

I'll then turn down the snoop settings. I've nothing to hide, but if they aren't going to give me a percentage of my data when they sell it, I don't want to donate more than I have to.

 

Plus I run an Internet business, so I protect the privacy of my customers. I move their data to a computer that is not connected to the Internet -- if it isn't connected, they can't hack it. It's also on an encrypted hard drive, so even if they break in and steal the computer, they won't get my customer's data (the key is very, very long and memorized).

 

All the snooping noise will settle down. Not many people complain that Apple and Google can track your movements with their map software, that search engines track your browsing history, that Facebook, twitter and others compile everything you do into a file that's for sale and you are going to be targeted with ads from them all.

 

Time will tell, but I think Microsoft is here for a while.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[WRGKMC]

I'm likely going to test it on one of my computers so I know first hand what it can and cant do, but that's mainly for business purposes. I work in the business equipment field and I have to know how to navigate those systems networking and installing drivers.

 

I'm kind of dreading it though. I burned up way too many hours doing upgrade after upgrade and when you stop and think about it, The program is just a stink'in operating system you boot to so you can operate the programs you really want to run. I'm not interested in relearning how to do the same things I do now "Again"

 

That's all these upgrades seem to be any more. They torture you by moving things around so you have to spend hours trying to figure out how to do the exact same things you were doing before you did the upgrade.

 

Add to that your computer that was fairly perky now needs to be upgraded "Again" just to run all the bloat ware they added. There is no great hardware changes going on where you need a new OS. This is just the engine of a gravy train. All the other manufacturers who make hardware and software rely on these upgrades to sell you their half assed upgrades that take years to get the bugs out.

 

That's all it is any more. A gravy train. If Win 7 has bugs, just fix them. If there's security holes fix them. You don't need a whole new OS. It really cant be very good either since they're giving it away. I suspect its like moving from Win98 to Win ME2 Win 8 failed so they're repackaging win 8 and trying to reissue it in a new wrapper.

 

Like I said I'll check it out because of work. The first thing I'll do is check and see how much stuff I can shut off. I'm sure I'll be disabling all kinds of services that have no business running. I'll bet there's a bunch of registry tweaks needed to prevent the thing from acting like a radio broadcast station on everything you do too.

 

You know I tried to Reinstall Win 98 to an old laptop the other day. I figured it might be good for some kid to learn on. I had a guy call me from India, supposedly from Microsoft hour later? He was telling me that OS was obsolete and I shouldn't be running it any more.

 

Man I couldn't post what I had to say to that guy. I think his phone melted on the other end.

He kept trying to call me back too. He wanted access to the laptop settings and all that.

This is real scary stuff. If there are people out there who have access to your program registration data and know enough to track you down, call you and attempt to remotely access the device so you can be visible to them on the net, I see that as a problem. I realize with the threat of terrorists out there some security is necessary, but it doesn't justify infringing on 350 million people in this country because they have issues with a handful of people out of those 350 million.

[MikeRivers]

I'm still waiting for Windows to have their equivalent of the Apple Core Audio support so that those of us who want to get new audio hardware for our Windows computers don't have to wait for the hardware vendor to write a driver.

 

Well???????????????

[WRGKMC]

^^^ Don't hold your breath. The two companies have opposing business structures. Microsoft is mainly a business to business company. They do provide direct consumer support but the bulk of their profit come from other business in a bottom up approach. They don't write drivers for everything, they simply issue a bunch of generic drivers that may have been incorporated from hundreds of different manufacturers.

 

Apple is Primarily a consumer company. It runs from the top down and its up to the consumer adopt the my way or highway approach to dealing with them. This is good for keeping bad technology from migrating into their systems. It filters out the many startups from selling their wares. Often times these startups don't have the best drivers or hardware. It may be better for the consumer from a reliability aspect but thay pay for that because there's very little competition there to keep prices down.

 

MS shares the development burden with thousands of other companies. It can wind up being the wild west when it comes to buying budget hardware and they're associated drivers.

 

I see it being good that we have both myself. What you cant do with one you can do with the other. I'd actually like to see Linux do better in the market too but they aren't so hot on audio. Last time I tried their system, I couldn't even get a normal sound card to work no less a decent pro quality interface. I don't enjoy having my option cut down from hundreds to maybe a handful. I know they have expanded quite a bit and several manufacturers make Linux drivers for their interfaces but the choices of DAW's and plugins are pretty lame.

[philboking]

^^^ Don't hold your breath. The two companies have opposing business structures. Microsoft is mainly a business to business company. They do provide direct consumer support but the bulk of their profit come from other business in a bottom up approach. They don't write drivers for everything, they simply issue a bunch of generic drivers that may have been incorporated from hundreds of different manufacturers.

 

Apple is Primarily a consumer company. It runs from the top down and its up to the consumer adopt the my way or highway approach to dealing with them. This is good for keeping bad technology from migrating into their systems. It filters out the many startups from selling their wares. Often times these startups don't have the best drivers or hardware. It may be better for the consumer from a reliability aspect but thay pay for that because there's very little competition there to keep prices down.

 

MS shares the development burden with thousands of other companies. It can wind up being the wild west when it comes to buying budget hardware and they're associated drivers.

 

I see it being good that we have both myself. What you cant do with one you can do with the other. I'd actually like to see Linux do better in the market too but they aren't so hot on audio. Last time I tried their system, I couldn't even get a normal sound card to work no less a decent pro quality interface. I don't enjoy having my option cut down from hundreds to maybe a handful. I know they have expanded quite a bit and several manufacturers make Linux drivers for their interfaces but the choices of DAW's and plugins are pretty lame.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a 'wrapper' that would take any/all Windows device drivers and make them usable on Linux? That would solve hundreds of problems in one fell stroke... There are probably issues that would make this very difficult; mapping the Win API into Linux would probably be the devil in the details, not to mention litigation from Microsoft for probing the innards of their code.

 

[UstadKhanAli]

I have no perspective in the matter. But I came across this article and thought I'd share it. I don't know if I agree or disagree with it, but see what you think.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

"The Internet needs a warning sign that reads, "You must be at least this smart to use the net." Well, we'll never get that, but Microsoft has made one good step in that direction. With Windows 10 Home, Microsoft is implementing automatic patching.

 

Automatic Windows 10 patching is a good idea.

 

That's great news, but many users hate Microsoft for this Big Brother approach. Anyone who's read most of my work knows I've disliked many of Microsoft's moves, but this one is a good one.

 

Why? Because year after year it's been shown that most users can't be trusted to keep their systems up to date. That, in turn, means that millions of PCs are pwned every day by malware using bugs that were patched ages ago.

 

Most botnets are powered by unprotected Windows systems and that, in turn, means all of us get attacked because clueless people won't update their systems. Look no further than how the obsolete Windows XP now powers a disproportionately large number of botnet attacks.

In short, clueless Windows users are one of the biggest reasons why there's so much crap and trouble on the Internet.

So, like it or lump it, if you're using Windows 10 Home, your system is going to be updated when Microsoft says it's time. The Windows 10 Home EULA now reads: "You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice."

That means you're computer is going to be patched whether you like it or not. Specifically, if you're using Windows 10 Home, you're going to be on the Current Branch. This, in turn, means you're going to get any new features, fixes, drivers and security updates via Windows Update on Microsoft's schedule. The only choice you'll get is whether you want to apply the new code right now or later. That's it."

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-automatic-updates-get-over-it/

 

 

[blue2blue]

Based on the history of Apple users and updates and my own highly unsatisfactory forced update experiences with a Google-branded Nexus 7 tablet which self-updates, I'm not at all sanguine about Windows' move to 'forced updates.'

 

They will almost certainly do it better than Google, and I suspect, based on the past and the hope of lingering old-school MS coding ethos, they may hopefully give more flexibility than Apple. But I'm not looking forward to it at all.

[Anderton]

Based on the history of Apple users and updates and my own highly unsatisfactory forced update experiences with a Google-branded Nexus 7 tablet which self-updates, I'm not at all sanguine about Windows' move to 'forced updates.'

 

They will almost certainly do it better than Google, and I suspect, based on the past and the hope of lingering old-school MS coding ethos, they may hopefully give more flexibility than Apple. But I'm not looking forward to it at all.

 

I've essentially been subject to "forced updates" because I HAVE to keep my computer current given my gig, so whenever there's a Windows update available I install it. So far, so good with Windows 7. There was one update when I had a mysterious USB problem where Windows wouldn't see a few thumb drives, but the next day there was another update that fixed it. Not sure about Windows 8 because I'm still on 7.

 

 

[Anderton]

I'm still waiting for Windows to have their equivalent of the Apple Core Audio support so that those of us who want to get new audio hardware for our Windows computers don't have to wait for the hardware vendor to write a driver.

 

Well???????????????

 

Check out the article "What Windows 10 Means to You" in the July issue of Cakewalk's eZine. Microsoft is definitely moving in that direction. They're close to ASIO-level performance with the WASAPI drivers, and expect to reach ASIO performance eventually.

[MikeRivers]

 

They're close to ASIO-level performance with the WASAPI drivers, and expect to reach ASIO performance eventually.

 

I watched a video of an interview with Microsoft's chief audio/MIDI ambassador who had some interesting things to say, including that. It's a two ended candle to burn, though. It's one thing to offer an API for their hardware design to work with OS drivers, but another for the hardware manufacturers to be assured that the devices that they build or want to build will be supported by those drivers. Otherwise, they're not going to bother.

 

The sense I got from this interview was that, Microsoft is, as expected, focusing their development initially on support for consumer devices. What's available now may work fine for a 2-channel audio interface but it will be a while before it'll support a 32 in/out interface at 96 kHz with under 1 msec monitoring latency. I think that their "low latency" focus is going to be aimed at people playing MIDI keyboards through their Windows phones with the knowledge that they'll get the same performace when they hook up to their PC at home.

 

My interim solution is that I've stopped buying new hardware and making do with what I have. But it does limit what I can reel in here for reviews and articles. You can be the guy who tells 'em that it'll work under Windows 10. I'll be the guy who tells 'em that it'll still work under Windows XP.

[techristian]

I have been a Windows 10 "insider" since February. I only did it for 2 reasons. Test out what apps work on it, including my firewire mixer and because I assumed that I would get a FREE copy of the pro version that way. Microsoft has backpedalled on the free software for non-windows7-8.1 machines for insiders, but it seems like mine is already activated on my old Lenovo X60. When I discovered that my firewire mixer DID work I tried to install on another identical machine. It did, but it is not ACTIVATED. I may be able to use it as an insider, if I dont mind being down for 3 hours a week for updates.

 

Dan

[nat whilk II]

What I don't like about incremental updates for an OS is the oft-noted fact that patch after patch after patch made to an installed system running lots of programs results in a gradual degradation of system performance and reliability. Over time, it's a major issue.

 

People tend to write off this gradual degradation of speed and increase in glitches and crashes as "oh, yeah well my computer's getting older and doesn't run as well anymore." So they get a new machine and are amazed at how much faster it loads and runs, how much smoother. But in my experience, I get most of that same improvement by simply backing up everything about 4 times a year, wiping the hard drive, and reinstalling everything from scratch (OS first, then do all the OS updates, then load the programs) It makes a very startling difference - AND it gets rid of malware and viruses and spyware and EVERYTHING like that totally, completely.

 

Yeah, it's totally impractical to expect the average computer user to do this, agreed.

 

To force 100% of the computing public down the same cattle chutes as the newbies rankles more than a little, with reason. But that's the argument - the average user is too dumb to protect themselves. Is it being dumb to not know how to set engine timing with a strobe? Or how to diagnose that pain under your ribs? We have mechanics and doctors, but we rarely turn to computer techs to tune and fix our computers - just buy a new one, hey? And trust MSFT. Life is good!

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

[MikeRivers]

Microsoft is aiming for the "common" user. The clearest evidence of this is that Windows 10 is designed to work the same way (or as closely as possible) on desktop and laptop computers, tablets, phones, "surface" computers, game consoles, and whatever else they dream up. Their research tells them that people want to be able to use multiple platforms and would like the convenience of not having to learn different programs or different versions of the same program in order to work on the same project on multiple devices. With cloud storage, you can access the same data set anywhere from any device, This, apparently, is what the proverbial "everybody" wants to do.

 

Most of us here fall into the category of "enterprise" users, but without the enterprise. We want our systems to do a limited number of jobs, and when we find what works, we want to keep it working that way. The problem that I'm encountering now is that updated application software requires an updated OS, I'm using hardware for many years that requires drivers, and the hardware manufacturer is no longer developing drivers for it, so I can't use it with the new OS. This is why I keep a couple of computers running Windows XP, Reaper, and Sound Forge so I can continue to use my Mackie 1200F and Satellite interfaces.

 

"My" kind of user doesn't spend time on porn web sites. I don't use what's commonly known as "social media," I don't download material from web sites that I don't know, and, knock on silicon, I've not had a virus or, to my knowledge, had my identity stolen. But then I'm not normal in several ways.

 

 

[Anderton]

The sense I got from this interview was that, Microsoft is, as expected, focusing their development initially on support for consumer devices. What's not available now may work fine for a 2-channel audio interface but it will be a while before it'll support a 32 in/out interface at 96 kHz with under 1 msec monitoring latency. I think that their "low latency" focus is going to be aimed at people playing MIDI keyboards through their Windows phones with the knowledge that they'll get the same performace when they hook up to their PC at home.

 

Exactly. But they have made it clear they expect to evolve this into more pro applications. We'll see how long that takes...

 

 

[Anderton]

Most of us here fall into the category of "enterprise" users, but without the enterprise. We want our systems to do a limited number of jobs, and when we find what works, we want to keep it working that way. The problem that I'm encountering now is that updated application software requires an updated OS.

 

Yes. I have a Mac dual G5 that works great and does everything I need for office work. But I can't find a browser that works with its OS. And now my quad core Xeon has reached a point where it won't run stuff any more, even though there's no technical reason it can't be upgraded to newer operating systems. It's kinda frustrating. At some point I'll have to get a new Mac whether I need one or not...don't want to cough up the bucks for the R2D2 cylinder computer. I'm just going to get a Mac Mini.

 

 

[nat whilk II]

I keep an XP machine going to run a 1992 bit of bookkeeping software that runs on MS-DOS. Green screen stuff, C prompts, expanded/extended memory options, all that ancient stuff.

 

Hands down, it's the fastest, most convenient, smartest bit of code I run. It only does a few things and does them instantly, intelligently, consistently. It doesn't know what a mouse is nor what the internet is, it never has to be updated, it's as handy and elegant as a well-balanced hammer. I can rip through data entry and all other bookkeeping tasks in 1/10th the time it takes on "Quick"books.

 

Of course, I'd never swap Sonar X3 for Cakewalk 3.0. I'm not a Luddite. But the OS is the ultimate tail that wags the dog now. I do think this will change in time - I don't know how, but there's something so very wrong in a situation where a couple of huge corporations have insinuated themselves in our culture at countless levels, each level exacting a toll to pay for the privilege as we move through their world like four billion Marios in their maze in a game where you can't kill the Boss.

 

nat whilk ii