What does Gibson hope to gain by acquiring Harmony Central?

[Notes_Norton]

What does Gibson hope to gain by acquiring Harmony Central?

 

They say they aren't going to interfere with it, (which I'm happy to hear).

 

And big corporations don't do things unless they can see it making a positive effect on the bottom line. So it gets me wondering, how Gibson expects to profit from the purchase.

 

Advertising? They could have probably bought ads for less money than they purchased it for (wild guess - I don't have any idea how much they paid for it and how much it will cost to maintain).

 

Profit from the ads of others? Again, I don't know how profitable HC is.

 

All I really hope for is that it's good for HC, but the rest I'm just curious about.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[1001gear]

My take before all the experts get in is diversity. A corporation can maintain a spread of stuff they can benefit from red or black. Investors, Uncle Sam, whatever; all need to be addressed. Regardless, seems like HC would come under cheap - uh economical bet with little risk.

[Anderton]

Excellent question, and I can speak to this with some authority

 

1. From a business standpoint, Henry wants to grow the industry. Gibson has a pretty big piece of the pie, so if the company is to grow, either the pie has to become bigger, or we need to discover life on other planets. He sees HC as something that can help people get excited about, and more involved in, music. He is also smart enough to know HC provides benefits that don't show up on a spreadsheet. This is also why he's fine with someone posting about, for example, how much they love their Strat. They'll end up wanting KRK monitors or Philips headphones or SONAR or whatever...a rising tide does lift all boats.

 

2. From an idealistic standpoint, I've known Henry for a long time and he really does believe (as in a core belief) that music can change the world. In fact, one of the two job requirements he gave me when joining Gibson was to have fun or I wouldn't be effctive, and to help him change the world. HC can help change the world, albeit in a small way, if we do it right.

 

Henry also has a strong philanthropic streak. Although I'm positive he doesn't see HC as a charity, it is a way that he can give back.He believes that people who are in a position to do so should give back. He's active in several charities and organizations.

 

[Anderton]

Oh, and one other thing...we're not expecting to do a big re-launch or anything. HC's deterioration was slow and steady, and I suspect its rebirth will follow the same arc...just in a different direction!

[RoadRanger]

For myself, it makes me likely to look hard at the Gibson family of brands for whatever I buy in the future .

[thankyou]

The guitar I've played the most in my life has been a Gibson, but not one you would immediately think of, a C-1. In the sound hole it says, "Kalamazoo, Michigan Union Made". It's a long way back to 1967.

 

I've never given it a name, though it does have some resemblance to Willie Nelson's "Trigger".

[Vito Corleone]

I think the only Gibson product I've ever owned is my 1979 Les Paul Custom. I don't drag it out much anymore because it's so damned heavy, but the stories that axe could tell!

[UstadKhanAli]

I have a 1967 Gibson SG, which I've played quite a bit. I wonder what stories it could tell.

[Temple of Light]

Music may or may not change the world but it certainly changes people, one at a time... my life would be immeasurably less rewarding, fulfilling and interesting without the capability I currently enjoy, no longer am I a useless burden and maladjusted discontent on society, I am quite prolific, creative and convinced I am on a higher path which can and will sustain me till I am no more. Not about money at all but all about another dimension, reality, purpose and the unmistakeable unknown mystery of my own awakening. Asleep no more meets Faith no more.

FaIth no more means not having to need people or religion at all, but to want spirituality, people and god by any other name instead.

The engineering, the creative release, the inspiration, and the utter careless regard I've gained for any sorta singular or mass acceptance of what I do and know now is an absolutely priceless gift to that which I have studied, pondered and debated ad infinitum internally,

for decades, and having been through that microscope of introspection, reflection, redirection and finally resurrection, I've come out the other side of the slide a profoundly different species, altered by the very DNA that gave birth to the universe itself.

Light is transformative and having been given a glimpse it's always easier to look toward it, than to look away...

As much as I have grown and succeeded as a musician, I know there is a largely as yet untapped well of energy, strength, serenity, creativity and level of excellence yet to be experienced through my compositions, productions and performances.

I've quite earned the right to be happy, excited, aroused and endeared by my gifts. It was a lifetime in discovery, but I would have taken no other road had it been offered. Simple and elegant, profound and direct, the connection to sound and harmony across the earth and skies, has helped me rise above the deceit and lies that make up the day to day dysfunctions and affectations of those that claim to have love, understanding, and enlightenment, in their hearts and in their lives...

Not everything in and around me is all good all the time, but nothing ever is forever in the transitional world we live in.

I have become the change itself, for static has no meaning or value to any one ...

Save for one JOHN GALT perhaps...

I know the persona is not the person.

[Temple of Light]

...and often times I stare into the solitude not knowing if

I'm being real or being rude. What to do with all this muse, I talk to the pages, but it isn't news.

Always another conversation happening across the nation, see and hear what you dare,

but BEWARE! THE TRUTH just might be in there...somewhere...

[Temple of Light]

Seek and you shall find, bump and you will grind, live and you will learn, stir the pot and you will churn.

Be and you shall blaze with tears in eyes aglaze,

Of joy not pain, not dry nor rain.

What is a story without it's glory, another list of words without it's meaning

Another tale told must be getting old in the direction you're leaning.

Myself is like an elf full of mischief full of self, talking to no one but thyself.

The three eyes look up in surprise, not to sunset but to sunrise,

dawning, yawning, full of truth, promise, contentment, reprise.

Never too good to be true, or too old to be wise.

Live with yourself without any lies, and love yourself from your own eyes.

See what you're shown, the cover is blown, no where to hide and nowhere to own.

What you reap is what was sewn, in the fabric of time we are never alone.

Our mentors pass down the greatness of the past, each generation wants it better than the last.

Live hard live free and live fast die well die ugly and die last.

Oh to be seventeen with all that green, pride, greed, envy and blue

To the first, next and best of the past, I say to thine own self be true.

 

[Notes_Norton]

Excellent question, and I can speak to this with some authority

 

<...snip...>

 

Thanks. I hoped you would chime in this thread.

 

Notes

[Anderton]

Y'know, it's easy to be cynical these days. When Cakewalk introduced its membership program (which is like a subscription program except people keep the software they buy, nothing expires, and they get a free year of updates), the general reaction was "this is too good to be true, why would a company do this?" The answer was that Henry believed that the key to success with SONAR wasn't making money, it was creating happy customers because if he customers were happy, then SONAR would be successful and the company would make money.

 

He was right, and it seems so obvious...but another successful company, Sweetwater, takes the exact same approach. When MF was nose-diving, Chuck Surack (head of Sweetwater) said to me "It's really simple to be successful: Treat your customers right, hire good people, train them and pay them well." That was his entire business philosophy in 13 words.

 

This industry has its share of idealists, and often, they're in the companies that are doing the best.

 

 

[WRGKMC]

Gibson Guitars have always been a status symbol for a musician to wear. They've had their share of duds but for the most part, they make high quality guitars that will last a musician a lifetime (or a couple of lifetimes) if they are properly maintained.

 

Musicians aren't stupid. They know when they have a quality instrument in their hands. Building something well does cost more. Gibson does have its Epiphone line that satisfies many beginners needs just like Fender has their budget line. The biggest challenge I see them having is getting beginners to realize their lower end guitars don't come close to their high end stuff for quality or tone.

 

So many think they can slap some higher end pickups in a budget guitar or buy some expensive pedal that will match the tone of a high end guitar. Along with that you have all the hucksters reinforcing snake oil remedies for things that do nothing for better tone, even to the point where they cant tell the difference between someone telling them the truth vs fiction.

 

I do think Gibson has some major areas of opportunity. They have had some foot pedals and amp in the past but most of the amps were low end stuff more suited to players from the 40's. Many were underpowered and unsuitable for doing any kind modern rock music live. Fender at least had a full line of amps and many have become classics over the years.

 

I never understood why Gibson never competed with some decent rock solid amps. I suspect its a manufacturing thing. Electronic manufacturing does take competence to design and build well. Cutting corners in the wrong places can destroy a company. I think Gibson got burned there a few times in the past. The stuff they made in the 70's was a complete joke.

 

I'm sure today with all the good builders overseas they could come up with some respectable gear at a decent price. They started to do that with the Ephiphone amps. The Jr was an amazing success for a small tube amp, but they never got past a few combo amps in the lower wattage range. With all the high tech efforts being put into their guitars they must have a few engineers who can build a decent amp. If not they could at least get a company to sell them some branded amps worthy of the Gibson name.

 

I never understood how a company could make such great guitars and suck so badly when it comes to making a decent amp. Gibson stops at their output jack and leaves the entire amp market open to everyone else. They did have some decent pedals in the past. I owned several. That's small potatoes though. They really need to make some amps worthy of rolling onto the big stage. The small bedroom amp stuff is fine as an introductory unit but those will not sell if you haven't got the big stuff too. They want to expand and grow? Complete the amplification chain and make some amps that will make the guitars sound their best and appeal to the younger high tech players. Everyone else is doing it. Why not Gibson?

[blue2blue]

Oh' date=' and one other thing...we're not expecting to do a big re-launch or anything. HC's deterioration was slow and steady, and I suspect its rebirth will follow the same arc...just in a different direction![/quote']

 

WHAT?!?!?

 

You aren't going to get Madonna, Kanye, Daft Punk, Beyonce and Jay-Z to do a mega-glitz re-re-relaunch spectacular?!? Think of the artists!

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

[Dendy Jarrett]

Oh, now that is hilarious. Anybody but Kanye please ...

[thankyou]

Gibson Guitars have always been a status symbol for a musician to wear. They've had their share of duds but for the most part, they make high quality guitars that will last a musician a lifetime (or a couple of lifetimes) if they are properly maintained.

 

Musicians aren't stupid. They know when they have a quality instrument in their hands. Building something well does cost more. Gibson does have its Epiphone line that satisfies many beginners needs just like Fender has their budget line. The biggest challenge I see them having is getting beginners to realize their lower end guitars don't come close to their high end stuff for quality or tone.

 

So many think they can slap some higher end pickups in a budget guitar or buy some expensive pedal that will match the tone of a high end guitar. Along with that you have all the hucksters reinforcing snake oil remedies for things that do nothing for better tone, even to the point where they cant tell the difference between someone telling them the truth vs fiction.

 

I do think Gibson has some major areas of opportunity. They have had some foot pedals and amp in the past but most of the amps were low end stuff more suited to players from the 40's. Many were underpowered and unsuitable for doing any kind modern rock music live. Fender at least had a full line of amps and many have become classics over the years.

 

I never understood why Gibson never competed with some decent rock solid amps. I suspect its a manufacturing thing. Electronic manufacturing does take competence to design and build well. Cutting corners in the wrong places can destroy a company. I think Gibson got burned there a few times in the past. The stuff they made in the 70's was a complete joke.

 

I'm sure today with all the good builders overseas they could come up with some respectable gear at a decent price. They started to do that with the Ephiphone amps. The Jr was an amazing success for a small tube amp, but they never got past a few combo amps in the lower wattage range. With all the high tech efforts being put into their guitars they must have a few engineers who can build a decent amp. If not they could at least get a company to sell them some branded amps worthy of the Gibson name.

 

I never understood how a company could make such great guitars and suck so badly when it comes to making a decent amp. Gibson stops at their output jack and leaves the entire amp market open to everyone else. They did have some decent pedals in the past. I owned several. That's small potatoes though. They really need to make some amps worthy of rolling onto the big stage. The small bedroom amp stuff is fine as an introductory unit but those will not sell if you haven't got the big stuff too. They want to expand and grow? Complete the amplification chain and make some amps that will make the guitars sound their best and appeal to the younger high tech players. Everyone else is doing it. Why not Gibson?

 

A couple of things: One, new guitars today are far better in action and intonation that those of fifty years ago, no matter the price point. This is a product of technology, which can create much more accurate necks and fretboards. Also, a great leap forward came about when electronic tuners got cheap. The thing that is going down is the quality of some tonewoods. There is precious little old growth timber left on the earth, and much of it is rightfully protected. I'm not talking about rosewood or ebony, but spruce, although one of my favorite guitars has a cedar top. The material for the body of the instrument has less to do with its overall tone than the wood in the top. Even then, technology has come up with some really nice all-composite guitars that I have enjoyed playing, though not owning, due to the cost. I do have an Ovation that I use as my festival/campfire/outdoor axe. I have no problems with its sound.

 

Two, amps are getting smaller and smaller. I recently saw a band (Paul Thorn) that only had one amp on stage, for the bass. The other musicians seemed to be playing through pedal boards into the PA. Of course, nothing available now can totally mimic the doppler effect of a Leslie or the interactive touch of a big tube amp fully cranked, but it's getting very close.

[Iamthesky]

"Imma let you finish, but GC ran the best forum of all time! Of ALL TIME!"

[WRGKMC]

My comment was, Gibson isn't in the amp business. If they want to expand their market, I see it being the biggest opportunity open to the company to grow. The Mestro pedals they used to make were high quality stuff. I still own one of the die case aluminum cased parametric pedals and the circuit board has some of the highest quality parts. Fender in comparison sold amps and guitars all along and they profited by both.

[Notes_Norton]

Y'know, it's easy to be cynical these days. <...snip...> Chuck Surack (head of Sweetwater) said to me "It's really simple to be successful: Treat your customers right, hire good people, train them and pay them well." That was his entire business philosophy in 13 words.

 

This industry has its share of idealists, and often, they're in the companies that are doing the best.

 

 

In my own company I have two mantras:

 

1) Treat my customers the way I would want to be treated if I was the customer

 

2) If the customer has a problem, try to solve it in a way that makes the customer glad he had the problem

 

These actions make loyal customers. And yes I do these things partially out of selfish reasons. I know if my customers like the product and the service they get from me, they will come back again. But I also feel good knowing that my customers like me. I also gig for a living, and it's important that my audience likes me too.

 

I've not dealt with Gibson support, although I do love my vintage ES-330 - it's a truly great guitar - and appreciate the value in my Epiphone Casino. I have the feeling that if I ever needed support from Gibson, I'd be happy with them (I've read some good stories on the web).

 

I have dealt with Sweetwater and Parker Guitars and both of these companies have a customer for life.

 

My local Ma & Pa music store (always my first choice) does business the same way. The owner trusts me, appreciates my business, and does his best for me. He's loaned me gear to try out on the gig without a deposit or credit card and with the understanding that if I return it in good shape, nobody loses a penny, and if I decide I like it, I'll get his best price that will be competitive with the big box stores. I even have his personal cell phone number in my gig bag with a promise to open the store and deliver anything that fails on a gig (I haven't had that emergency and I take steps to prevent it, but it's reassuring to know).

 

I've dealt with companies that didn't care about me as a customer, and I'm reluctant to go back. What most people realize is even if we are in retail, we are really in the service industry.

 

I wasn't being entirely cynical, as I know that the main objective of any corporation is to make money. If you can't pay the bills and salaries, it doesn't matter how nice you are, you'll go belly-up. Therefore most company decisions have either immediate profits or future profits in mind - whether it is to improve them or avoid something that will have a negative effect on profits.

 

I don't see how HC can possibly have a negative effect on Gibson profits, and I see the logic in your explanation. I hope it works out for both Gibson and the HC forum management and guests.

 

Notes

[AlamoJoe]

I love Gibson guitars. They make musical instruments, it's what they do best I think. Marshall doesn't make guitars. They make great amps. They know where they're strong and manufacture to it. I had a 75 Les Paul for 35 years and if my wife hadn't got so sick I'd still have it. I hope things turn around for me one day and be able to buy another. I think it's GREAT that Gibson bought HC. I think it's GREAT that Craig is all up in it. I'm pumped about all of it but I don't give one damn if Gibson ever builds another amplifier.

[Temple of Light]

Gibson branching into monitors, for aesthetic rather than technical reasons? I don't think so. There is real money behind the latest marketing ploy to test the brand's strength against other manufacturer's and markets, and if they do well, it's a no brainer they will expand their capital investment into other forms of manufacturing and products.Time will tell what those product's might be, but I would likely suspect they would tap into the design of small electronics, pedals, and possibly PA/digital mixing. Personally I would love to see an entire signal chain of Gibson, from guitar, to pedal, to amp, to mixer. Might piss off a few purist's, but they need to start winning the business of the new generation, and this approach could easily do it. At Scale.

[Bucksstudent]

Gibson Guitars have always been a status symbol for a musician to wear. They've had their share of duds but for the most part, they make high quality guitars that will last a musician a lifetime (or a couple of lifetimes) if they are properly maintained.

 

Musicians aren't stupid. They know when they have a quality instrument in their hands. Building something well does cost more. Gibson does have its Epiphone line that satisfies many beginners needs just like Fender has their budget line. The biggest challenge I see them having is getting beginners to realize their lower end guitars don't come close to their high end stuff for quality or tone.

 

So many think they can slap some higher end pickups in a budget guitar or buy some expensive pedal that will match the tone of a high end guitar. Along with that you have all the hucksters reinforcing snake oil remedies for things that do nothing for better tone, even to the point where they cant tell the difference between someone telling them the truth vs fiction.

 

I do think Gibson has some major areas of opportunity. They have had some foot pedals and amp in the past but most of the amps were low end stuff more suited to players from the 40's. Many were underpowered and unsuitable for doing any kind modern rock music live. Fender at least had a full line of amps and many have become classics over the years.

 

I never understood why Gibson never competed with some decent rock solid amps. I suspect its a manufacturing thing. Electronic manufacturing does take competence to design and build well. Cutting corners in the wrong places can destroy a company. I think Gibson got burned there a few times in the past. The stuff they made in the 70's was a complete joke.

 

I'm sure today with all the good builders overseas they could come up with some respectable gear at a decent price. They started to do that with the Ephiphone amps. The Jr was an amazing success for a small tube amp, but they never got past a few combo amps in the lower wattage range. With all the high tech efforts being put into their guitars they must have a few engineers who can build a decent amp. If not they could at least get a company to sell them some branded amps worthy of the Gibson name.

 

I never understood how a company could make such great guitars and suck so badly when it comes to making a decent amp. Gibson stops at their output jack and leaves the entire amp market open to everyone else. They did have some decent pedals in the past. I owned several. That's small potatoes though. They really need to make some amps worthy of rolling onto the big stage. The small bedroom amp stuff is fine as an introductory unit but those will not sell if you haven't got the big stuff too. They want to expand and grow? Complete the amplification chain and make some amps that will make the guitars sound their best and appeal to the younger high tech players. Everyone else is doing it. Why not Gibson?

 

Just a few points... Epiphone is a budget line, but it's not just for beginners nor is Squier. Both companies make good guitars for all players. Unfortunately, I have yet to play a Gibson that justified the price difference between the Epiphone equivalent. I've owned Gibsons; vintage and new. I've kept the Epiphones for a reason. It's all subjective anyway.

 

Gibson only has to focus on guitars and stamping logos on t-shirts and mugs. I own two Gibson designed amps: a Norlin era Labseries (which has garnered a cult following with pros seeking them out) and an Epiphone Regent. They get the job done and sound good, but Gibson isn't Fender. Fender has built a distinguished reputation of amplifiers thanks to pros of each electric oriented generation playing them. I think I can name one player who used a Gibson amp: Joe Perry. At this point in the game, Gibson doesn't really have to or need to branch out into amplifier territory again.

[Notes_Norton]

 

<...snip...>. Unfortunately, I have yet to play a Gibson that justified the price difference between the Epiphone equivalent. I've owned Gibsons; vintage and new. I've kept the Epiphones for a reason. It's all subjective anyway<...>

 

I have a 1970 USA/Kalamazoo Gibson ES-330 and a 2000 Korea/Peerless Epiphone Casino - both great guitars, and yes, the Gibson is better.

 

Gibson has better wood so it sounds better as an acoustic guitar (but they are both designed to be electric), it has higher fret access, and it has real MOP inlays in the neck.

 

 

Are Gibsons worth the extra money?

 

Is the Lexus with the same body and motor as the Camry worth the extra money?

 

Is the Chrysler Town And Country worth thousands more than the comparable Dodge Caravan?

 

Depends on the buyer.

 

I bought the Casino because I switch instruments on stage (sax, flute, wind synth, guitar, keyboard synth) and didn't want to scratch the collector's item 330. I like the Gibson slightly better.

 

Then I bought my first Parker and the others gather dust. Nothing against the Gibson or Epi, they are fine guitars, but the Parker DF just fits me perfectly and it fits the kind of music I find myself playing these days.

 

I never owned a Fender or a Squier, as I like a long radius fretboard, but I'm sure they are fine guitars as well - or they wouldn't still be making them.

 

Back on topic, if Gibson helps keep this meeting place alive, all I can say is "Thank you Gibson".

 

Notes