Do playback devices change the context of music?

[BEAD]

My personal experience has been that listening to a record gives a different experience than listening to a CD for many reasons. For instance, if you put a record on, it will play for 15 minutes or so and you'll have to flip it over. This prompts me to listen to the music a bit closer. The lack of portablilty makes the music a bit more special while listening to it as well. A CD can come pretty much anywhere with you, and an iPOD has a carrying capacity, shuffle function... I don't have an iPOD but I imagine it would really have an impact on how you perceive the music. I don't really have any downloaded music on my computer primarily because the context strikes me as so negative.

 

How do you perceive different playback devices to color your perception of music?

 

Also, how do you think iPOD type devices will change how music is created, as CDs and LPs (instead of 78s) certainly have?

[Kiwiburger]

Eh? (removes earplugs) ... were you talking to me?

[Fred5]

This seems to be the intellectual, grown-ups forum

 

My short answer would be that all changes in music technology

affects music itself and the way we perceive it.

[where02190]

Different digital devices use different quality of converters, and every device sounds a bit different because of that. Higher end devices that can playback .wav or high res encoded AAC files are fairly transparent, whereas mp3 files will never sound as good as the original cd audio file, and will sound different from player to player.

 

As digital audio enters this new higher quality phase, and as converters continue to get better and less expensive, the gap will narrow, but it will most likely always be there to the ears that give a crap.

[Jotown]

What where said; or something like it.

[Anderton]

I think that's a GREAT question. Playing a record was an event -- you had to clean the record, place the needle right on the groove, flip it over, etc.

 

I think the CD encouraged the singles-oriented market of today because people just didn't want to sit in one place for 60+ minutes.

 

The iPod will, I think, cause a quest for more musical diversity. The shuffle function causes unusual, cool juxtapositions that change your perception of music. It's almost like a radio station that plays only music you like I also rip a lot of stuff to my Zen that I wouldn't sit down and listen to, but having cuts pop into my consciousness is really cool, and sometimes I get into things I wouldn't get into otherwise.

 

Before my move, I ripped thousands and thousands of tunes and set the Zen for random as I drove across the US. I didn't even recognize a lot of the tunes, but now they've become part of my "heavy rotation" list.

 

The danger is that the iPod mentality will make music more of a background activity, but honestly, I think that was already happening with the CD. I see it causing a resurgence in music listening.

[aeon]

Originally posted by Anderton Playing a record was an event -- you had to clean the record, place the needle right on the groove, flip it over, etc.

 

I just spent a few weeks at a friend's house, and we did quite a bit of vinyl listening.

 

And you know what? I loved that ritual of the sleeve management, carbon fiber brush, cueing, the smell of the records...and alternating who got up from their chair to do those duties.

 

And when we listened, we listened...dark room, sitting back, eyes closed. Music and the pleasure it can and does bring was the focus...not endless selections, convenience, etc.

 

The emotional memory of one particular evening with that ritual, listening to some Terry Kath-era Chicago (among other things), and having a little bit of single malt will never leave me. Good times indeed!

 

Warm sounds, warm feelings, warmth from the scotch...yeah baby!

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[Jotown]

Ithink music, for most people has always been a "backround activity". Most people listen to music; bu few people actually hear music. I think there is a lot of power and magic in music, but it is a power and magic that few actually really experience.

 

I think it has always been that way to one degree or another.

 

The biggest benefit from this de-emphasizing of music's importance is that soon; only those who really love to make music and really need to express themselves will. Markets may be smaller but there will still be place for any artist that can define their own niche. Finding a creative way to exploit that niche is the challenge at this time.

 

All this talk of DVD's and Video gaming stealing market share amuses me. Those who would rather watch a DVD or play a Video game are looking for a distraction and music just isn't a big enough distraction. Those people didn't hear music; they just listened to it as a distraction. They now have a new and better distraction. They are not a lost music fan; merely a lost customer.

[AudioMaverick]

I also think everything (given the same actual studio recording being transferred) from the quality of the playback medium, to the equipment, the room and what one is doing plays a role in how the music is perceived.

 

I remember graduating from 8-tracks & cassettes to a Techniques turntable with a suspended platter & Shure *Type IV* cartridge. I built a Hafler DH-101A preamp and picked up some Koss headphones. Then I bought Pink Floyd *Animals*. Lights off, on the floor listening to

[Jotown]

Music fans every bit as rabid as you were are born every day. There is river through which the flow and that river is called

[greendoor]

 

Originally posted by Kiwiburger Eh? (removes earplugs) ... were you talking to me?

In case that went right over your heads ... I was making a social commentary on how iPODs reinforce solitary, anti-social behavior.

 

I don't like the idea of listening to a mix of old stuff I already know. At least with radio, there was a chance that once in a while I would hear a new song I really liked. And, when that happened - I could ask my mates if they heard it too.

 

But so many radio stations are basically a multi-disc CD player on random play - might as well listen to an iPod.

 

I think Podcasting is a glimmer of hope in the right direction ... a bit like the pirate radio stations of yore.

[MorePaul]

I'm pretty much in agreement with the thesis - playback devices, well context in general can change things

 

Yo-Yo Ma has an observation where he asks a student to look at a different area (out the window, at the wall, whatever) and notices how it changes their performance

 

Phonograph and reel to reel have quite a bit of ceremony around them

 

With others in the "intimate listening" context, I find the ceremony has shifted with the newer playback setups

where before, one person would thread the tape or clean the platter and another would get the libations...now, typically, I'm finding 2 helping with the libations, the "disc jockey" now reading aloud from the liner notes, incense (provided it is compatible with the libations) is lit, lighting adjusted, breathing exercise performed, etc

in short, the ceremony seems expanded to fit the "empty space"

 

 

The newer storage technologies, I find, allow us to more fluidly format the listening experience

 

Yes, the new formats do allow Random access (and I surely don't want to put it on digital representation itself digital stored to tape, for instance, isn't well suited to random access)

 

But they also allow unbroken longform listening whereas the older media were constrained in terms of time and didn't allow for truly unbroken longform listening (maybe 30 or 45 mins max)

 

 

I think "music as background" can tend to really be a case of interest (where we place it in our sensorium), many folks simply don't listen as closely as those involved in music. Some people, many, are more visual than auditory

 

Spoken word / readings / Audiodrama has it even worse

"Audiobook / Drama !?! those are just for long roadtrips.." say so many

 

There are even those works that blur/fuse the seam between spoken word and music -- those may have it hardest of all

[coyote-1]

This problem's as old as the first Sony Walkman.

 

Originally posted by greendoor In case that went right over your heads ... I was making a social commentary on how iPODs reinforce solitary, anti-social behavior.

Man, I remember the controversy generated by those things. And guess what? They were right back then..... Look at us now - people walk around with things stuck in their ears, talking into a bead hanging on a wire, essentially oblivious to the sights and sounds all around them. I saw a Mom in a shopping center two days ago. Her baby in the stroller looked sad and completely ignored while she spent her time chatting on her cellphone. I wonder how alienated the new generation of kids will be when they become teens.

 

It's a drag. I absolutely love all these new technologies, but it saddens me to see how they are misapplied to everyday living.

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by coyote-1 This problem's as old as the first Sony Walkman.

 

 

Even earlier than that

 

The TR-63 pocket transistor radio had people listening "publicly" (even good old Beaver Cleaver could be seen with a TR-63 to his ear) The damn things were popular enough for TTK to change their company name to the name of that popular product's name..."Sony"

[BEAD]

What first got me really thinking about this was when I traded my old school house style record player to an old vinyl shop store owner. He wanted something to play 78s on at work. He was talking about how with 78s you can't put one on and do the dishes, you pretty much either stand next to the player listening or you dance!

 

When I go to purchase new music I tend to go to shops that carry current vinyl as well as current CDs. Depending on the music, I may choose a CD or a record. Almost all of my hip hop stuff is on LP, as well as a lot of my more experimental stuff. Something like Bjork or Portishead or Nick Cave which I enjoy immensely, I'll get it on vinyl and savor the listening experience. I'd have trouble listening too much and ruining my listening experience.

 

If I'm going out in search of something ambient or something more middle of the road rockish I'll probably grab it on CD, although some soundscapey stuff is great on LP as well.

 

Oh, and then on the cost side of things... I buy all of my old blues/jazz on vinyl because I can get albums for $4 instead of $15.

 

I read a Rob Zombie quote where he basically said CDs are poison in that they encourage artists to put out 70 minute releases that should have been 30 minute releases... but have all the B sides crammed on as well. The band Cornershop supposedly put out a 24 hour remix of one of their songs. This sort of thing wouldn't even be considered when creating a song before electronic media, would it?

[BEAD]

Originally posted by Anderton The iPod will, I think, cause a quest for more musical diversity. The shuffle function causes unusual, cool juxtapositions that change your perception of music. It's almost like a radio station that plays only music you like I also rip a lot of stuff to my Zen that I wouldn't sit down and listen to, but having cuts pop into my consciousness is really cool, and sometimes I get into things I wouldn't get into otherwise.

I'm not an iPOD owner, but I wonder sometimes if the shuffle function would be for me. I spend a good deal of time thumbing through my music collection before I put something on. For instance, most of the time I'm just not in the mood to hear Sonic Youth. I have to be in a "Sonic Youth" mood. Someday I imagine I'll own an iPOD type deal (it seems inevitable) but I doubt that sometime will come soon. It would take more self control than I currently have to not keep pumping the "pick a different random song than this one" button until I got something that really fit my current mood.

 

anyone else as anal as me here?

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by chunkathalon I read a Rob Zombie quote where he basically said CDs are poison in that they encourage artists to put out 70 minute releases that should have been 30 minute releases... but have all the B sides crammed on as well. The band Cornershop supposedly put out a 24 hour remix of one of their songs. This sort of thing wouldn't even be considered when creating a song before electronic media, would it?

 

 

 

Interesting how the view of composition itself may be colored by the medium as well ....??? (yes? No? maybe?)

 

I mean, it seems that many modern people may be thinking about a performance (recorded or "studio constructed") fixed on a medium as the end goal...in other words "writing a record"

 

but in a (live) performance oriented composition, the restriction just doesn't exist and longform is totally nominal.

 

 

I mean in the early days of phonograph with the time limitation you would have a book of individual platters because of the time constraints....like a photo album, there was the record album...hence the term

[MorePaul]

Originally posted by chunkathalon I'm not an iPOD owner, but I wonder sometimes if the shuffle function would be for me. I spend a good deal of time thumbing through my music collection before I put something on. For instance, most of the time I'm just not in the mood to hear Sonic Youth. I have to be in a "Sonic Youth" mood. Someday I imagine I'll own an iPOD type deal (it seems inevitable) but I doubt that sometime will come soon. It would take more self control than I currently have to not keep pumping the "pick a different random song than this one" button until I got something that really fit my current mood. Many (most?) players have "playlist" type functions where you can store tunes to play in certain groups...shuffle features often let you choose to shuffle through the whole loaded fileset or a "playlist" subset so you can do a context type deal I tend not to use a player as a "store everything" system (everything wouldn't fit) -- but follow the use model I followed when the SS digital players were 64MB or so I load what is currently in rotation and (space permitting) some arbitrary stuff for an "off current theme" rediscovery of content anyone else as anal as me here?

 

It's a music forum

 

probably everyone

[Anderton]

>

 

Try XM radio! Thumbs up!!

 

>

 

There are LOTS of times when a tune comes on that doesn't fit my mood, and I hit "next." But the odds are good it will be something off the wall that I DO want to hear.

[Base]

I sometimes will have a spate of hitting 'NEXT', but if it's on my player then I must have bought it for a reason at some point in my life, so a little self-discipline to just leave whatever comes on can be quite gratifying and I have re-discovered stuff that I haven't heard in years....

[Raymar]

Oddly enough I find myself listening to music on my car radio mostly these days because I have three classes of 9 presets, two FM and one AM. If the music isn't happening at the moment I'll listen to talk radio. Anybody out there use your iPODs for recorded talk or lectures too? If the radio isn't doing it I'll pop in a cassette. What I really need is an iPOD for the car! Of course there's always silence which I like alot also.

 

Steve

[blue2blue]

Well, my first record player had a hand crank and an acoustic "tone arm" ... so I think I've got some perspective. (It was a 78, right at the end of that era for kid's records, which lagged the adult market.)

 

I bought my first component turntable (a Gerrard) when I was thirteen. For some idiotic reason I thought that POS was the only POS that Gerrard had ever made and a few years later, after saving my allowance for something close to two years and tossing in b'day and Christmas money, too, I bought the fabulous, sleek, and utter crappy Gerrard Lab 80. (Dual! I coulda got a Dual! Dope slaps self repeatedly. I've owned a couple Duals since then and they're just fine... never any problems unlike the evil, disgusting Gerrards. My youth! Wasted fooling underneath overdesigned, undermanufactured 'British engineering.' [sorry, my Anglo-Celtic brothers. Those Gerrards were worse than a junkyard full of TR-7's.)

 

 

I've also owned 10 analog tape reel to reels, innumerable cassette decks, a couple ADATs, a few computer based rigs (latest built around a MOTU 828) and I have the obligatory 1 GB memory player (a SanDisk, with a built in FM and vox recorder).

 

Anyhow, bona fides established, nowadays, most of my listening is over the wire -- I subscribe to Music Match On Demand, which has a large selection (I usually get about 90-95% of what I'm looking for and I have pretty varied and somewhat obscure tastes) and the highest fi of any commercial service I know (160 kbps WMA).

 

 

Nothing -- nothing -- since I discovered FM radio around 1962 (and really, not even that), has revolutionized my listening like being able to quickly and easily find what I want to listen to (or just browse) from 800,000+ tracks (hey, I gotta say, though, that there are loads of duplicate tracks -- don't know how they're counted... but anyway, like I say, more than 9 times out of 10 I find just what I'm looking for.

 

And, since they tend to get new records pretty quickly, for the first time in years I'm able to participate in that "Hey, what did you think of the new Horrible Pop Band album?" banter... all without spending an extra dime. Not having to buy and store a lot of this crap is priceless.

 

I have well over a thousand vinyl records, maybe 600-700 CD's, and a roughly 19,000 collection of legit mp3s -- but I find the $5 a month I spend on MMOD has completely revolutionized my listening in a way I couldn't have imagined before.