Grizzly Man

[Mike51]

Didn't expect it to be so good. Easily one of the best films I have seen. A very conflicting and fascinating film. A 93% rating on Rotten Tomatoes is pretty rare.

 

Here's the trailer (it's out on DVD now):

 

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/grizzly_man/trailers_player.php?IGNMediaID=1189797&playerType=videolarge

[MrKnobs]

I saw it this weekend.

 

I have mixed feelings about it. Like Mike, I'm an avid outdoorsperson, and, like the guy in the movie, I often do very risky things to photograph grizzly bears.

 

The movie was good in that it made me think about my own behavior.

 

The movie was terrible in that the "Grizzly Man," IMO, was the worst kind of environmentalist, which is to say a nut job who really had no respect for nature and wild animals at all. He was probably clinically mentally ill, and definitely he had the maturity level of a child. His virtually non-stop, petulant rants to the camera and his bizarre, child-like rants about loving animals demonstrate that he was what he says he is, a person who does not fit into human society. That much he is right about.

 

Where he goes astray, though, is in believing that he is one of the bears, or that the bears have some special understanding with him. The bears understand that he is a difficult meal, and thus leave him more or less alone until the end of the movie, where a desperately hungry bear simply eats him and his female companion.

 

Terry D.

[Mike51]

I would agree with some of that, but not all. The guy was way out there. He was not meant for human society, and that alone is totally fascinating. He crossed a line with the bears- he thought he was one. He didn't give them the space they deserve.

 

But other facts are that the while knowing it or not, his lunacy created *the best land based wildlife footage I have seen*, bar none. He did stuff no one else has done on film, and amazingly did it for 13 years. He was a tortured, conflicted human being living amongst incredibly wild and powerful animals. Wether he was bad or good for the environmental movement isn't really a concern IMHO.

 

The contrast between Treadwels uber-sunny, Disney-esque view of nature versus the directors "nature is a chaotic, cold killing machine and nothing else" was another fascinating aspect, making the film meet somewhere in the middle.

 

As for not being an easy target for a meal, he was always an easy target. I'm amazed it took 13 years! Any one of those bears could have picked him off incredibly easily from day one, and they *did not*. Fascinating. Just fascinating.

 

And the final lesson IMHO is mans strange place in nature. Treadwell was trying to GO BACK while society was trying to go forward. And in the end, he made it.

 

An incredibly interesting story and a must see IMHO.

[MrKnobs]

 

Originally posted by Mike51 I would agree with some of that, but not all. The guy was way out there. He was not meant for human society, and that alone is totally fascinating. He crossed a line with the bears- he thought he was one. He didn't give them the space they deserve. But other facts are that the while knowing it or not, his lunacy created *the best land based wildlife footage I have seen*, bar none. He did stuff no one else has done on film, and amazingly did it for 13 years. He was a tortured, conflicted human being living amongst incredibly wild and powerful animals. Wether he was bad or good for the environmental movement isn't really a concern IMHO. The contrast between Treadwels uber-sunny, Disney-esque view of nature versus the directors "nature is a chaotic, cold killing machine and nothing else" was another fascinating aspect, making the film meet somewhere in the middle. As for not being an easy target for a meal, he was always an easy target. I'm amazed it took 13 years! Any one of those bears could have picked him off incredibly easily from day one, and they *did not*. Fascinating. Just fascinating. And the final lesson IMHO is mans strange place in nature. Treadwell was trying to GO BACK while society was trying to go forward. And in the end, he made it. An incredibly interesting story and a must see IMHO.

 

 

I agree that the footage was very good.

 

When I first got into wildlife photography, I tried to solve everything with equipment. I needed longer lenses and faster film to get better pictures. I needed motion detectors, I needed hides wireless shutter releases. I needed all sorts of expensive crap that I would always seriously consider discarding after a couple of days carrying it up a mountain in a backpack. It's funny how our valuation of things changes on a long backpack trip, isn't it?

 

Somewhere along the journey, I finally figured out the way to make the animals larger in the pictures and to photograph them in their natural activities (instead of their butts as they were leaving or with them staring apprehensively at me) was to slow down and let them adjust to me.

 

Animals are simple, just as we are. They react strongly at first to new things in their environment. They don't know if a guy with a camera is a threat, is food, or is a potential competitor. After a while, they will settle down and regard you will all the indifference they would a rock or a tree stump.

 

And that's what Treadwell did, on a grand scale. He lived with grizzly bears for 13 summers. Much of the time, it was repeat camping expeditions with bears that already knew him, sometimes since they were COYs (cub of the year).

 

He died because he changed his pattern. He was in a different location than usual, he stayed much later in the season, the bear that killed him and his girlfriend did not know him and was desperate.

 

As the filmmaker noted, what seemed playful behavior (swimming lazily in a pool) was in reality desperate survival behavior in the old, gaunt bear. He was retrieving dead salmon from the river bottom, not a choice meal.

 

Treadwell saw all this, and recognized the danger in this particular bear, and did nothing about it. Deep down, I think, he wanted to die, because he romanticized dying. But when push comes to shove, everyone wants to live, and there are few worse ways to go than being slowly mauled to death by a large animal.

 

Like the one old Alaskan salt said, "What I can't forgive him for was taking the girl."

 

Indeed. RIP Tim Treadwell, hope you found peace. Thanks for all the amazing footage. I don't think you ever "got" what the wilderness is about, but maybe you managed to help a lot of other people get it.

 

Terry D.

[Mike51]

 

Originally posted by MrKnobs I agree that the footage was very good. When I first got into wildlife photography, I tried to solve everything with equipment. I needed longer lenses and faster film to get better pictures. I needed motion detectors, I needed hides wireless shutter releases. I needed all sorts of expensive crap that I would always seriously consider discarding after a couple of days carrying it up a mountain in a backpack. It's funny how our valuation of things changes on a long backpack trip, isn't it? Somewhere along the journey, I finally figured out the way to make the animals larger in the pictures and to photograph them in their natural activities (instead of their butts as they were leaving or with them staring apprehensively at me) was to slow down and let them adjust to me.

 

 

 

That's a good point. What gear are you using now?

 

 

 

He died because he changed his pattern. He was in a different location than usual, he stayed much later in the season, the bear that killed him and his girlfriend did not know him and was desperate. As the filmmaker noted, what seemed playful behavior (swimming lazily in a pool) was in reality desperate survival behavior in the old, gaunt bear. He was retrieving dead salmon from the river bottom, not a choice meal. Treadwell saw all this, and recognized the danger in this particular bear, and did nothing about it. Deep down, I think, he wanted to die, because he romanticized dying. But when push comes to shove, everyone wants to live, and there are few worse ways to go than being slowly mauled to death by a large animal.

 

 

 

You are right. They were in the "maze" later in the year and with strange bears. He wouldn't of died (at least that year) if he had not cancelled his flight home after a fight with an airline worker.

 

 

Like the one old Alaskan salt said, "What I can't forgive him for was taking the girl."

 

 

I thought about that too, and it is the biggest tragedy of all this. At first I was angry at Treadwill for that irresponsible behaviour , but this woman did decide to go along, and she did decide not to run away as Treadwell was being eaten, perhaps losing her only chance of saving herself.

 

 

It's a very conflicting , powerful film. I found it fascinating. Certinaly more interesting than the usual crappy Hollywood movie.

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Mike51 That's a good point. What gear are you using now? I've gone mostly digital. A Sony DSC-F828 with a teleconverter. The 8MP lets me use "smart zoom" on top of the optical and still get decent quality pics. Of course I still carry a couple of 35mm bodies with slide film, too. I just don't hump them on a backpack trip. Well, sometimes I don't.

 

Did you watch the special feature on the DVD about the soundtrack sessions? Man, that dude could seriously play some tasteful guitar, with some lovely tone.

 

Terry D.

[Mike51]

Originally posted by MrKnobs Did you watch the special feature on the DVD about the soundtrack sessions? Man, that dude could seriously play some tasteful guitar, with some lovely tone. Terry D.

 

I watched the torrent version which doesn't have those extras. I'm going to purchase the DVD this week.

 

 

That Sony camera is quite nice. What tele are you using? I'm running a Canon S2 and looking at a good tele for it.

[shniggens]

Thanks for the headsup. I added to my Netflix que.

[Brittanylips]

I felt uncomfortable watching this.

 

I don't believe that Werner Herzog, the director, "got" Treadwell.

 

I think that Herzog romanticized Treadwell as an uber-outdoorsman, when in fact Treadwell was a nut no matter where he was.

 

-PL&B

[GRIZ]

Some are under the belief that animals, bears in this case are people too. I grew up in the woods so to speak, they are definitly not people. RIP, it's very hard not to want to get close to animals, but in their stomache is too close for me.

[deanmass]

I remember Eberts review of this film. I am anxious to see it. From how big I have seen Grizzlies can get, I want nothing to do with that gig.

 

Not to spam, but a friend of mine just launched a web portal thing to help people find movies, and this is the #2 movie right now. There are so many movies that go under the radar of so many people. It is really pretty cool, worht a peek.

 

dvdideas.com/

[bejeeber]

Originally posted by MrKnobs ...... until the end of the movie, where a ....... Terry D.

 

Uh yeah, thanks, but does anyone else prefer not to hear what the ending of a movie is before they see it?

 

Edit: hmmmm now I've gone back and read more of the posts and OKAY I guess it was justified this time.

 

[St. Andrew]

Jim O'Rourke & Richard Thompson on the soundtrack.

 

Treadwell died doing what he loved.

 

I think he was naive. but I admire him in a way.

 

Good movie.

[Brittanylips]

 

Originally posted by St. Andrew Jim O'Rourke & Richard Thompson on the soundtrack. Treadwell died doing what he loved. I think he was naive. but I admire him in a way. Good movie.

 

I don't think he died doing what he loved. I think he died in the midst of a prolonged psychotic and paranoid episode.

 

One of the most telling scenes is when he comes accross some other people who happen to be in the wilderness. They are doing nothing wrong. he hides and fumes in the brush and videotapes.

 

I saw the movie a while ago so I don't remember all the details, but i seem to recall that this was the only time, in all of his time in the wilderness, that he ever came accross other humans.

 

His response is that he sees himself as a protector of the bears, and that he needs to protect them from other humans like the ones he encounters.

 

In fact, the threat against the bears that propells his odyssey is concocted entirely in his warped imagination. There is no threat from other humans, he only encounters one group in all his time out there, they are doing nothing wrong, and the bears are not endangered. Quite the opposite - and depressingly ironic - is that Treadwell, himself, and his attempt to socialize with the bears, provides the greatest (and only genuine) human threat.

 

Another scene - he finds some innocuous mark on a rock - and siezes on it as confirmation of his paranoid delusion that he is being watched or pursued by an anti-bear group that wants to get him - the protector of the bears - out of the area.

 

There's absolutely no bearing in reality for this, or any of a number of his delusions. There's nothing about his work that has anything to do with helping nature. The movie appeals to the voyeuristic pleasure of watching a train wreck: a sick man, at the mercy of his delusional mind, slowly commit suicide under the phony banner of protecting wildlife.

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[Mike51]

It would be interesting to see how our own video taped sessions would look if we spent seasons in Alaska alone. I'm not sure many people would come off much better.

[deanmass]

There was something running on Discovery about a guy in the 50's who went to Alaska, filmed, and built a retreat there, and then used to host anyone who wandered in. It was pretty intresting from what I saw, and pretty popular at the time. I'll be damned if I can remember the name of it.

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Brittanylips I don't think he died doing what he loved. I think he died in the midst of a prolonged psychotic and paranoid episode. The movie appeals to the voyeuristic pleasure of watching a train wreck: a sick man, at the mercy of his delusional mind, slowly commit suicide under the phony banner of protecting wildlife. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

 

You said it much better than I did.

 

I found the movie very painful to watch.

 

Terry D.

[MrKnobs]

Originally posted by Mike51 It would be interesting to see how our own video taped sessions would look if we spent seasons in Alaska alone. I'm not sure many people would come off much better.

 

I think it's important to note that it wasn't being out in the woods alone that made Treadwell crazy, it was being crazy that prompted him to be out there alone (sort of, see below).

 

I've been out in the back country for extended periods of time by myself. I get lonely from time to time, and I do tend to talk to myself once in a while, but I didn't and wouldn't go crazy. Certainly not in three months, anyway.

 

But I think something that needs to be mentioned here is that Treadwell was almost never alone. He had a succession of women he took with him, but kept out of camera view to give the impression he was alone. I suppose he knew that was a big part of the interest he drew.

 

The filmmaker / narrator comments on this extensively during the movie. The girl that was killed with him was, I believe on her first or second outing with him, spent the whole three plus months, and yet there are exactly two brief shots of her in miles of raw footage.

 

I also thought it interesting that they showed and interviewed his previous girlfriend / companion so much. She was pretty much a nutcase too, and it was a bit mean of the director to ask her some of the questions he did.

 

Terry D.

 

P.S. One thing that my wife and I talked about a lot afterwards was the skillet thing. That girl had some big cojones to be beating that huge male grizzly on the head repeatedly with a frying pan!

 

But what we were discussing was our surprise that it didn't work. Hit edge on with an iron skillet repeatedly, it was amazing the bear didn't give up. I have personally had to strike a black bear with a heavy camera tripod on one occasion, and I was surprised to see his legs go out from under him.

 

Of course a black bear weighs maybe 80-100 lbs and that big Alaskan griz was a hell of a lot bigger than that. Still, you have to give the girl credit for some guts.

[syncretism]

i had forgotten about this movie - bad herzog fan that i am - but this thread has rekindled my interest.

 

if i didn't know that this was a biography/documentary, i'd swear it sounds like one of many movies herzog did with klaus kinski {_aguirre_ comes to mind}.

 

herzog's always been a friend to soundtrack enthusiasts.

[Meriphew]

I have it in my Netflix Que (is that how that's spelled???). It looks like a cool documentary. Shame about what happened to the filmmaker and his girlfriend/wife.

[Mike51]

 

I think it's important to note that it wasn't being out in the woods alone that made Treadwell crazy, it was being crazy that prompted him to be out there alone (sort of, see below).

 

 

 

Oh I agree with that. My point was that being alone and filming personal video can make one seem worse. Heck, even those stupid personal video sessions on the Real World make people out to be worse than they are.

 

 

 

I've been out in the back country for extended periods of time by myself. I get lonely from time to time, and I do tend to talk to myself once in a while, but I didn't and wouldn't go crazy. Certainly not in three months, anyway.

 

 

I agree he was a bit looney before then. But also take into consideration this guy was camping and sleeping next to a ton of huge bears. That adrenaline has got to work on you after awhile. Remember the part where the giant grizz is rubbing on the tree, then approaches Treadwell? Treadwell remarks "that's a big bear, that's a very big bear" in a very hyped up tone, probably realing the situation after it happened, rather than during it.

 

 

 

But I think something that needs to be mentioned here is that Treadwell was almost never alone. He had a succession of women he took with him, but kept out of camera view to give the impression he was alone. I suppose he knew that was a big part of the interest he drew.

 

 

I thought the documentary said he was alone except for the last couple of seasons?

 

 

 

The filmmaker / narrator comments on this extensively during the movie. The girl that was killed with him was, I believe on her first or second outing with him, spent the whole three plus months, and yet there are exactly two brief shots of her in miles of raw footage.

 

 

I will have to go back and review that. From what I understood, he was alone most of the time, save for the last couple of seasons.

 

 

 

I also thought it interesting that they showed and interviewed his previous girlfriend / companion so much. She was pretty much a nutcase too, and it was a bit mean of the director to ask her some of the questions he did.

 

 

Yeah she was a little aloof to be sure. But also remembr some people don't perform well with a video camera on them.

 

 

 

 

But what we were discussing was our surprise that it didn't work. Hit edge on with an iron skillet repeatedly, it was amazing the bear didn't give up. I have personally had to strike a black bear with a heavy camera tripod on one occasion, and I was surprised to see his legs go out from under him. Of course a black bear weighs maybe 80-100 lbs and that big Alaskan griz was a hell of a lot bigger than that. Still, you have to give the girl credit for some guts.

 

 

 

I agree, that really was crazy. She could have ran and saved her life.

[Brittanylips]

 

Originally posted by Mike51 Oh I agree with that. My point was that being alone and filming personal video can make one seem worse. Heck, even those stupid personal video sessions on the Real World make people out to be worse than they are.

 

I understand what you're saying, and that the circumtances would make anyone seem a little kooky, but this was not the usual kookiness based on isolation and a video close up. This was nothing like anything on the Real World. Treadwell seemed really sick, really delusional, really paranoid, really detached, really twisted, really sad.

 

 

Originally posted by Mike51 I agree he was a bit looney before then. But also take into consideration this guy was camping and sleeping next to a ton of huge bears. That adrenaline has got to work on you after awhile. Remember the part where the giant grizz is rubbing on the tree, then approaches Treadwell? Treadwell remarks "that's a big bear, that's a very big bear" in a very hyped up tone, probably realing the situation after it happened, rather than during it.

 

 

His baby-talk tone of voice was pretty consistent. I think he was accustomed to being around the bears, clearly too accustomed to being around them, and the tone of voice was a sign of permanent rather than temporary detachment.

 

To me, the baby talk - the sort of voice you would use with a pet or, well, a real baby - suggested that he perceived a closeness to the bears that in reality did not exist. While he had learned how to survive in their company up to a point, his anthropomorphism was delusional. In fact, his whole life seemed to be an escapist fantasy.

 

Even the interviews with his ex-girlfriend were peculiar, and left a strange sense of their relationship. Frankly, his seemingly ambiguous sexuality was likely one of the many things he was attempting to flee.

 

IMHO, this was way past "a bit looney."

 

I think Herzog is a brilliant director and this is a truly compelling movie. It's remarkable. But I think Herzog, in his romantic portrayal of Treadwell the outdoorsman, became a little bit like Treadwell himself: too close to his subject, and ultimately consumed by it.

 

-PL&B

[:wave:]

Originally posted by MrKnobs P.S. One thing that my wife and I talked about a lot afterwards was the skillet thing. That girl had some big cojones to be beating that huge male grizzly on the head repeatedly with a frying pan! But what we were discussing was our surprise that it didn't work. Hit edge on with an iron skillet repeatedly, it was amazing the bear didn't give up. I have personally had to strike a black bear with a heavy camera tripod on one occasion, and I was surprised to see his legs go out from under him. Of course a black bear weighs maybe 80-100 lbs and that big Alaskan griz was a hell of a lot bigger than that. Still, you have to give the girl credit for some guts.

 

That surprised me, too, but that grizzly was pretty much desperate for food, wasn't he? Plus (in my admittedly limited experience - I've only had to scare off black bears and only two at that), I don't think black bears have that damn-the-torpedoes mental gear that grizzlies do.

 

Creepy movie, though - I completely agree with those of you who've said it's more of a psychological study than a natural one.

[MrKnobs]

I should have added that if that little black bear hadn't gotten back up, I'd probably be posting this from federal prison.

 

If you so much as pepper spray a bear in a national park, you'd better have some convincing looking claw marks or teeth holes on your person!

 

Terry D.

[:wave:]

Originally posted by MrKnobs I should have added that if that little black bear hadn't gotten back up, I'd probably be posting this from federal prison. If you so much as pepper spray a bear in a national park, you'd better have some convincing looking claw marks or teeth holes on your person! Terry D.

 

Wow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't think they let inmates use the Internet...