Passive Dynaudio BM5's vs. Active KRK RP6's

[2FLY]

Yes yes y'all,

 

Aight. I use Dynaudio BM5's w/ a Samson Server 100 pre-amp.

I'm thinking of investing in new monitors.

 

My dillema:

 

The acoustics in my room suck. See picture.

 

I'm going to work on 'fixing' the problems with the acoustics tho. Curtain in front of the wall with the window. Speakersstands. Moving the mixer to exactly the middle of the wall. Couch opposite of speakers.

 

Now.. someone told me: the Dynaudio BM5's have more detail than the RP6's. My whole PROBLEM with the BM5's is the lack of detail. But.. it could be acoustic-related.

 

I do hear people saying 'active is better than passive'. Is this fact.

 

What do u guys think??

 

[Brittanylips]

I do think that active are better than passive. obviously, no generalization is completely true, and there are fantastic passive speakers, and suck-ass active ones. But there are a number of reasons why the industry has embraced active over passive. There are just a number of technical advantages to sticking amps inside of the speakers themselves.

 

I had some Dynaudio's in my studio on lend, so that I could check them out and compare them with some other speakers. I thought they sounded flattering to the music, but not neccessarily accurate. I've only heard the KRKs in uncontrolled environments, so I'm not qualified to say much about them. However, just based on my experience with Dynaudio, I would say that if I were looking for accuracy and transparency, I would look elsewhere.

 

-PL&B

[subtlearts]

Hi. I have had passive BM5's in my studio for somewhat over a year. I am very happy with them all around. I am aware of some of the technical reasons that active monitors have been embraced to the extent they have, however I needed passive boxes for a technical reason of my own: I have a wicked old set of electrostatic mastering phones by Jaecklin called the Float system - it's more like a helmet than headphones really, designed not to change the shape of your ears, therefore reducing fatigue and increasing fidelity since our outer ears affect the way we hear immensely. You can check this by pushing on your ears while listening to music. Throws the frequency spectrum way out of whack, and most phones do that ALL THE TIME. The Floats look seriously wierd and kind of home-made, but they are VERY clear and precise up in the very high end, with a very open and airy sound.

 

Anyway I'm off topic; point is, they run off an amplified signal so are incompatible with active monitors. I needed a power amp, and my budget did not run to dedicating one to the Jaecklins and buying active monitors besides. I did a couple of heavy listening sessions when I bought the Dynaudios, and I felt given the range of material I was referencing they were as accurate as anything in the room except things that were way beyond my budget. And somehow I just felt comfortable with them; they seemed to work for my ears and my music and my room, and they still do. Yay for me.

 

My thoughts about your dilemma:

 

a) I wonder if you're underpowering them? I run them off a Servo 170 which is a good deal more punchy than the 100. I don't have the technical knowledge to comment in detail but I am given to understand that the impedance of a loudspeaker drive unit will change with the amount of power input; it stands to reason that the frequency spectrum and phase response could change as a result. I was told this power level (85 watts per side) was appropriate for these speakers. Anyone with better technical savvy than I care to comment?

 

b) put those suckers upright. It goes into some detail in the manual as to why they sound better upright than on their sides; they're designed to work that way. From your pictures it looks like you don't even have them set up symmetrically. Turn the right one on its other side at least, if you are determined to put them on their sides - I know it looks cooler and all - but really, from my understanding and experience, they will be more accurate and give better imaging if they are upright. In any case, that's the way I have mine, they sound clearer and more transparent to me that way, and my mixes seem to translate fairly well, which is the proof in the pudding so to speak. Your mileage may vary.

 

c) Get your room acoustics sorted out before you make any other decisions or investments. You can't expect to make any accurate sonic judgements if you know the room is out of whack. Don't buy anything on recommendations or even reviews, though they can be a good start. Fix the problems in the room first, then with the speakers upright, listen through some of your mixes and see if you still feel the same way about the Dynaudios. Look into the power situation a bit if you feel so inspired (don't take my word for it, in any case).

 

And finally, if you settle on a pair of active boxes that work for you based on a serious listening session at the store, then try to arrange to bring them home and check them out again in your room in A/B against the Dynaudios (maybe you can bring in a more powerful amp at the same time) to make sure they are solving the problems you are having now. If so, great; if not, take them back.

 

So many times people succumb to hype and spend money instead of getting the most out of what they have; I'm not saying there's nothing to the active/passive issue, of course there is, but that doesn't necessarily mean the KRK's are automatically a better choice for your ears or your music or your room. Let your ears decide, and until the room problems are sorted out, there's no way they can make a decision you can rely on.

 

Hope that helps; good luck!

 

- tobias

[where02190]

Well I see months have past and you've done nothing that was suggested to you.

 

Do you think our responses are going to change without you making changes to that horrible setup?

 

Go back to your original post of a few months ago, read what was suggested to you, and take the suggestions. Your setup could not be worse, and there are tons of ways to easily and inexpensively make it better that have already been suggested to you.

 

Until you correct your control room issues spending money on monitors is a total waste.

[Lee Knight]

I didn't know you already posted until I read Where's post... he's right. Speakers aren't ever close to being a consideration until you do something about your room. I don't know what was suggested yet so I'll keep to "the bare essentials".

 

Center your speakers on your wall.

The tweeters and you make a equal triangle

Use the mirror trick and kill those hot spots with...

 

Foam

703 board

Drapes

Dead Bodies... whatever, though I like 4' of 703 myself.

 

Don't ignore the ceiling. Use the same mirror trick there as well. If a reflection shows up within 10 feet you should kill it. Reflections under 20ms are death. 10 out and 10 return equals roughly 20ms. That doesn't mean every surface within 10 feet should be covered, it means every surface within 10 feet that shows your monitors in the mirror should be covered. Just those spots.

 

Go symetrical.

[2FLY]

 

Originally posted by subtlearts Hi. I have had passive BM5's in my studio for somewhat over a year. I am very happy with them all around. I am aware of some of the technical reasons that active monitors have been embraced to the extent they have, however I needed passive boxes for a technical reason of my own: I have a wicked old set of electrostatic mastering phones by Jaecklin called the Float system - it's more like a helmet than headphones really, designed not to change the shape of your ears, therefore reducing fatigue and increasing fidelity since our outer ears affect the way we hear immensely. You can check this by pushing on your ears while listening to music. Throws the frequency spectrum way out of whack, and most phones do that ALL THE TIME. The Floats look seriously wierd and kind of home-made, but they are VERY clear and precise up in the very high end, with a very open and airy sound. Anyway I'm off topic; point is, they run off an amplified signal so are incompatible with active monitors. I needed a power amp, and my budget did not run to dedicating one to the Jaecklins and buying active monitors besides. I did a couple of heavy listening sessions when I bought the Dynaudios, and I felt given the range of material I was referencing they were as accurate as anything in the room except things that were way beyond my budget. And somehow I just felt comfortable with them; they seemed to work for my ears and my music and my room, and they still do. Yay for me. My thoughts about your dilemma: a) I wonder if you're underpowering them? I run them off a Servo 170 which is a good deal more punchy than the 100. I don't have the technical knowledge to comment in detail but I am given to understand that the impedance of a loudspeaker drive unit will change with the amount of power input; it stands to reason that the frequency spectrum and phase response could change as a result. I was told this power level (85 watts per side) was appropriate for these speakers. Anyone with better technical savvy than I care to comment? b) put those suckers upright. It goes into some detail in the manual as to why they sound better upright than on their sides; they're designed to work that way. From your pictures it looks like you don't even have them set up symmetrically. Turn the right one on its other side at least, if you are determined to put them on their sides - I know it looks cooler and all - but really, from my understanding and experience, they will be more accurate and give better imaging if they are upright. In any case, that's the way I have mine, they sound clearer and more transparent to me that way, and my mixes seem to translate fairly well, which is the proof in the pudding so to speak. Your mileage may vary. c) Get your room acoustics sorted out before you make any other decisions or investments. You can't expect to make any accurate sonic judgements if you know the room is out of whack. Don't buy anything on recommendations or even reviews, though they can be a good start. Fix the problems in the room first, then with the speakers upright, listen through some of your mixes and see if you still feel the same way about the Dynaudios. Look into the power situation a bit if you feel so inspired (don't take my word for it, in any case). And finally, if you settle on a pair of active boxes that work for you based on a serious listening session at the store , then try to arrange to bring them home and check them out again in your room in A/B against the Dynaudios (maybe you can bring in a more powerful amp at the same time) to make sure they are solving the problems you are having now. If so, great; if not, take them back. So many times people succumb to hype and spend money instead of getting the most out of what they have; I'm not saying there's nothing to the active/passive issue, of course there is, but that doesn't necessarily mean the KRK's are automatically a better choice for your ears or your music or your room. Let your ears decide, and until the room problems are sorted out, there's no way they can make a decision you can rely on. Hope that helps; good luck! - tobias

 

 

This reply is VERY helpful to me. Thank you Subtlearts.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense and I will take your advice and use it.

 

As others (mostly my homie Where02190) have noted: no need spending a cent on new monitors.. fix the acoustics problems!!

I must admitt the lack of knowledge and not knowing how much it'll cost and if I'll mess it up even more have a 'freezing' effect as in 'let's do nothing'.

 

And yes the hype is easy to believe 'just buy new monitors, problem solved'. Uhm.. no.

 

One question:

 

The rack of equipment on the right. I'm wondering if that won't ALWAYS be somewhat of a problem even when the monitors are on perfect ear height.

 

The setup on the pics has been changed a few months ago. The big speakers the Dynaudio's were laying on are gone. The Dynaudio's are standing up straight now (but are way too low. Also there's no triangle.. they're just standing up straight like regular hi-fi monitors.... not exactly ideal)

 

Lee... I know the 'mirror trick' must be a well-known amongst most guys on here.. but I've never heard of it. Can you explain it?

 

Thanx you guys!