When did you/your kid stop believing in Santa Claus?

[Hanshananigan]

Sure, I'd still believe if I still got Tyco racecars and Lincoln Logs under the tree. But my kid sister-in-law still believes at age 10. Seems a bit old to me. Wifey thinks so too, but is keeping her mouth shut. I'm not getting involved either, but am curious about what is the going age.

 

Hey you elders and wisers, whaddaya say?

[veracohr]

I'm pretty sure I was younger than that, but I may have gone on believing for a while had not my older brother told me.

[Super 8]

I don't remember how old I was. I know I wasn't 10. I do remember one night just point blank asking my mom if santa was real, and she answered me truthfully. It didn't affect me much.

 

I agree 10 is too old, but I think her peers will set her straight before long. I wouldn't worry about it. Unless her folks are litterally going out of their way to remove any doubt, and to make the Santa thing as convincing as possible, in which case....I think I'd worry.

 

My kids are 2 and 4, and scared to death of Santa. I can't get them to have their pictures taken. I got me and my son's picture taken when he was about 8 months, and you should see the look of terror on his face. He seriously wanted out of there.

 

We give gifts from Santa, but we don't have an elaborate web of deception going. Right now, it's fun for them and it's fun for us. When it ends, it ends. It doesn't mean much to us.

[Lucky #9]

No Santa?

 

You're kidding, right?

 

I've seen him here ...

 

Orbiting the RED PLANET!!!

[Tedster]

I kinda have the opposite problem with my grandson. My son and his wife (she's a bit on the controlling side) doesn't want Preston to believe in Santa, because she thinks that will cloud his judgment when he gets older. You know that "Well, my parents lied to me about Santa, what else are they going to lie to me about?". While I understand her rationale...I don't see any harm in a little fantasy and fun. I was four when I told my mom that I thought "you and dad are Santa"...and they had made up their minds that if I guessed it, they would tell the truth, so they did, and I was crushed.

 

All too soon, kids, IMO, are going to grow to an age where they're bombarded with peer pressure, bad stuff, pictures of bombed out buildings in far away cities...the stuff you see on the news. I'm all for having their youngest years be a good, fun, happy, safe place.

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by Tedster All too soon, kids, IMO, are going to grow to an age where they're bombarded with peer pressure, bad stuff, pictures of bombed out buildings in far away cities...the stuff you see on the news. I'm all for having their youngest years be a good, fun, happy, safe place.

 

 

I'm all for that too, but the problem is that most adults these days have little real use for magic and fantasy. So if you raise your kids to believe in it you end up with adults who expect more of the world that it will ever give them back, and they end up being {censored}ed up starving artists and/or on antidepressants or addicted to other substances.

 

Kids should learn to deal with reality when they're little so they won't expect very much from the world. That way they'll be good well adjusted little drones, whose fantasy life is limited to "reality" TV shows and downloading porn at the office. Oh, but they'll still need the antidepressants and whatever else.

 

Or maybe by the time your grandson grows up the world will have changed and something will have come along that's a healthier way to be than this gawdawful, mechanistic worldview that is considered the norm now. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Magpel]

Because our kid has no siblings, the dark rumor that Santa isn't real has been slow to enter our house. He just made it through his 8th xmas with his belief more or less intact, though it may be cracking at the edges.

 

My wife and I have decided (mostly the wife) to let the Santa story fall away naturally, like an umbilical cord. Of course, it won't really be a natural severance. It will come via friends who have teenage siblings and the like, and maybe, best yet, from the dawn of an inner rationality.

 

I like what Lee says about both the uses and dangers of magic. Or should I say magick?

[blue2blue]

What are you saying here?

 

Are you suggesting Santa Claus is some kind fake? A sham?

 

A scam?

 

 

 

 

Damn.

[alfonso]

I started doubting when I noticed that my richer friends had much costier and many more presents than those coming from poorer families. I think I first started thinking that S.K. was unfair , after a little bit all of it seemed absurd. I think i was 7-8 years old. The same happened with religion after few years.

[blue2blue]

 

Originally posted by Magpel Because our kid has no siblings, the dark rumor that Santa isn't real has been slow to enter our house. He just made it through his 8th xmas with his belief more or less intact, though it may be cracking at the edges. My wife and I have decided (mostly the wife) to let the Santa story fall away naturally, like an umbilical cord. Of course, it won't really be a natural severance. It will come via friends who have teenage siblings and the like, and maybe, best yet, from the dawn of an inner rationality. I like what Lee says about both the uses and dangers of magic. Or should I say magick?

 

 

I'm thinking you're either home-schooling or your kid's cushioning you out.

 

I mean, back in the 50's -- when there were 15 year olds who thought the stork brought babies -- by 2nd grade the dirty secret was pretty much out.

 

Now there were a couple of kids in our 2nd grade class who seemed to be clinging to Santa Claus like a true believer clings to the rock... but, by and large...

 

It'd just be hard for me to imagine anyone LESS sophisticated and worldly than we were back then.

 

________________

 

 

Sometime around that age my dad, who was 'officially' an agnostic, sat me down to talk about faith in God.

 

We had a long, serious, and frank discussion about how different people believe different things -- how many of the founding fathers of the country (as well as his parents) were deists -- but scrupulously avoided defining the creator or engaging in religious denominalization. He explained how my mom was a Christian, who believed Jesus was the son of God but also an embodiment of the divine. He explained how other people flat out believed there was no God (which he seemed to lump with the true believers in the religious camp in terms of intellectual acuity) and he explained that he, himself, knew that he just plain didn't know. But didn't rule it out. (Still, I think he was fairly skeptical about the prospect for most of his life.)

 

I sat thinking for quite a while.

 

Finally, I looked up and said... so, I'm thinking there probably isn't a Santa Claus.

 

 

When we were done laughing, he went on to explain that it was still a matter of personal fairth and while there probably weren't any adults that believed in Santa Claus, we shouldn't go out bursting others' bubbles.

 

So, people outgrow believing in Santa Claus, I said. Do they outgrow believing in God?

 

Some do. Some don't, he said. Belief is very personal. You shouldn't tell others what to believe -- and you should be darn careful when they're telling you what to believe.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Lee Flier I'm all for that too, but the problem is that most adults these days have little real use for magic and fantasy. So if you raise your kids to believe in it you end up with adults who expect more of the world that it will ever give them back, and they end up being {censored}ed up starving artists and/or on antidepressants or addicted to other substances.

 

You're "wry"t on, Lee...

 

Which goes back to my observations about negativity. Society pressures us to believe that cynicism and naysaying is cool. The old "everything sucks" mindset. Adults have little use for magic, because it's uncool...yet, secretly, I believe a lot of them long for the freedom to see the world through the eyes of a child.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Tedster Society pressures us to believe that cynicism and naysaying is cool. The old "everything sucks" mindset. Adults have little use for magic, because it's uncool...yet, secretly, I believe a lot of them long for the freedom to see the world through the eyes of a child.

 

No doubt, and I think it goes even beyond that - it's imperative that adults not see magic as being a "childlike" state of mind but one that they need all through life.

 

Try telling most adults that, though.

[aliengroover]

I don't think most kids need Santie Claus to have bright moments in childhood. I know kids that are aware of no SC, yet have the greatest Christmases imaginable. They just love it because, well, it's Christmas.

 

I was never into the Santa thing. I knew my parents brought the gifts from day one. I never took the picture, nor did I even write a letter to Nick. Since I was a teen I've always semi-affectionately referred to him as "Satan Clause". However, I've never been one to ruin it for anybody else. Even recently, I saw a little kid in Target who was wondering why there weren't alot of toys in stores (in particular the one she wanted). I told her that Santa bought all his toys from there, and she was cool with that. Her mom smiled and went along with it. So see, I can play along, lol.

 

My cousin refuses to let her daughter believe in him. God forbid if I ever have kids, though. I'd teach them to not interfere, but I fear they may ruin everything for everybody, lol.

Peace

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Lee Flier No doubt, and I think it goes even beyond that - it's imperative that adults not see magic as being a "childlike" state of mind but one that they need all through life. Try telling most adults that, though.

 

(High-fives Lee)...

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Lee Flier Kids should learn to deal with reality when they're little so they won't expect very much from the world. That way they'll be good well adjusted little drones, whose fantasy life is limited to "reality" TV shows and downloading porn at the office. Oh, but they'll still need the antidepressants and whatever else.

 

Ouch! Someone's bitter...

[myshkin]

Originally posted by Lee Flier No doubt, and I think it goes even beyond that - it's imperative that adults not see magic as being a "childlike" state of mind but one that they need all through life. Try telling most adults that, though.

 

Yeah people grow stupid but labour under the misapprehension that their stupidity is actually intelligence.

[Super 8]

 

Originally posted by myshkin Yeah people grow stupid but labour under the misapprehension that their stupidity is actually intelligence.

 

 

Yeah, but that's a bit of a double edged sword though.

 

How would you define intelligence?

[flemtone]

Nothing for nothing, but we still believe in Santa around my house. Cookies and milk on the mantle, Christmas bells rung around midnight of Christmas eve, packages from Santa, stockings, surprises, the works.

 

For that one season, we all get the chance to be kids again. We take full advantage.

 

Our daughters are 25 and 17, and they still believe. They're also not nearly as cynical as their friends.

 

...perhaps they're on to something...?

 

peace on earth,

Tim from Jersey

[myshkin]

 

Originally posted by Super 8 Yeah, but that's a bit of a double edged sword though. How would you define intelligence?

 

 

I'm most talking about being removed from direct perception of life, and thinking that for example , that ball of light in the sky is merely "the sun", paying more attention to the human label than ther actual experience of it.

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by myshkin I'm most talking about being removed from direct perception of life, and thinking that for example , that ball of light in the sky is merely "the sun", paying more attention to the human label than ther actual experience of it.

 

 

For real!

 

A Native American writer I knew used to say that the fundamental difference between Western culture and his own is that Europeans experience and learn about a thing by observing and defining it; whereas in his culture they learn about something by becoming it.

 

He told the story of a 19th century Swiss painter who went to live among Native Americans for awhile as a sort of "art exchange" program, to learn from their painters and to show them in turn how he approached his art. One day, the Swiss guy was painting alongside an Indian artist and the Indian showed him what he'd just painted: a man on a horse.

 

"No no!" The Swiss artist cried, "You've done it all wrong. You've drawn the man and the horse in profile, which means you wouldn't be able to see the man's other leg. Yet you've drawn both legs... here, let me show you..." and proceeded to draw a profile of a man on a horse from the "correct" perspective, with one leg hidden behind the horse.

 

The Indian artist simply looked back at him very puzzled. "But," he protested, "A man has TWO legs."

[coyote-1]

Ummm... who's really trying to be controlling here?

 

Originally posted by Tedster I kinda have the opposite problem with my grandson. My son and his wife (she's a bit on the controlling side)

 

Who's trying to make the kid believe something, something that's actually untrue?** I submit to you that THIS is far more controlling than choosing not to foist off such BS on the kid. Think about it: IF you get the kid to beleive in santa, next thing you know the kid hears these lyrics:

You better not shout

You better not cry

Better not pout, I'm telling you why

He's makin' a list, checking it twice

Gonna find out who's naughty or nice

He sees you when you're sleeping

He knows when you're awake

He knows if you've been bad or good

so be good for goodness's sake!

and starts down the road of paranoia & mind control! It's anythung BUT harmless, man....

 

**Ever notice how every time people tell you to believe something, it turns out to be untrue?! The truth does not require belief.

[Super 8]

 

Originally posted by coyote-1 Think about it: IF you get the kid to beleive in santa, next thing you know the kid hears these lyrics:

 

 

Sure, you can use Santa as a means of guilt-tripping kids into doing what you want.

You can use God to guilt-trip people.

You can use patriotism to guilt-trip people.

You can use an individual's past to guilt-trip them.

You can use lots of things, but it really comes down your intentions.

 

Good parent's use dicipline, not guilt to affect childen's behaviour.

 

What Tedster is talking about, is a little fantasizing, and pretending. Kids do that kind of stuff all the time, it's normal for them. Adults are just having a little fun with the kids. One of the great things about being a parent is reliving the 'growing up' process from a whole new perspective. I love watching my kids, and then remembering what it was like for me at that age, and relating it back to them.

Santa is fun. And, if it's handled right, I can't see the harm in it.

 

and starts down the road of paranoia & mind control! It's anythung BUT harmless, man....

 

 

Well, I think you're over-reacting ust a bit.

I can't think of anybody who grew up socially mal-adjusted because they believed in Santa Clause as a child. I can't think of anybody who doesn't look back on their childhood and remember Santa with fondness.

[Gonkulator]

We had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding Santa Claus. I simply couldn't lie to my children about it.