Hey, meat eaters check this out.

[Ryst]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11451389/GT!=7756

 

By Rick Weiss

The Washington Post

Updated: 4:07 a.m. ET Feb. 20, 2006

 

Picture two steaks on a grocer's shelf, each hermetically sealed in clear plastic wrap. One is bright pink, rimmed with a crescent of pearly white fat. The other is brown, its fat the color of a smoker's teeth.

 

Which do you reach for?

 

The meat industry knows the answer, which is why it has quietly begun to spike meat packages with carbon monoxide.

 

The gas, harmless to health at the levels being used, gives meat a bright pink color that lasts weeks. The hope is that it will save the industry much of the $1 billion it says it loses annually from having to discount or discard meat that is reasonably fresh and perfectly safe but no longer pretty.

 

But the growing use of carbon monoxide as a "pigment fixative" is alarming consumer advocates and others who say it deceives shoppers who depend on color to help them avoid spoiled meat. Those critics are challenging the Food and Drug Administration and the nation's powerful meat industry, saying the agency violated its own rules by allowing the practice without a formal evaluation of its impact on consumer safety.

 

"This meat stays red and stays red and stays red," said Don Berdahl, vice president and laboratory director at Kalsec Foods in Kalamazoo, Mich., a maker of natural food extracts that has petitioned the FDA to ban the practice.

 

If nothing else, Berdahl and others say, carbon-monoxide-treated meat should be labeled so consumers will know not to trust their eyes.

 

'Other signs' meat is spoiled

The legal offensive has the meat industry seeing red. Officials deny their foes' claim that carbon monoxide is a "colorant" -- a category that would require a full FDA review -- saying it helps meat retain its naturally red color.

 

Besides, industry representatives say, color is a poor indicator of freshness as meat turns brown from exposure to oxygen long before it goes bad.

 

"When a product reaches the point of spoilage, there will be other signs that will be evidenced -- for example odor, slime formation and a bulging package -- so the product will not smell or look right," said Ann Boeckman, a lawyer with the Washington law firm Hogan & Hartson. It represents Precept Foods LLC, a joint venture between Cargill Meat Solutions Corp. and Hormel Foods Corp. that helped pioneer the technology.

 

Much is at stake. The U.S. market in "case ready" meats -- those packaged immediately after slaughter, eliminating the need for butchers at grocery stores -- is approaching $10 billion and growing, said Steve Kay of Cattle Buyers Weekly, which tracks the industry from Petaluma, Calif. Tyson Foods, for example -- one of three meat packagers that has received a green light from the FDA to use carbon monoxide -- just opened a $100 million plant in Texas to churn out more case-ready "modified atmosphere" packaged meats, Kay said.

 

No one knows how much carbon-monoxide-treated meat is being sold; the companies involved are privately held or keep that information secret. But the potential is seen as great. The new technology "will finally make this the case-ready revolution, rather than the case-ready evolution," said Mark Klein, director of communications for Cargill's meat business.

 

It is a revolution some want stopped in its tracks.

 

"We feel it's a huge consumer right-to-know issue," said Donna Rosenbaum of Safe Tables Our Priority, an advocacy group in Burlington, Vt., created after four children died and hundreds became sick after eating tainted hamburgers from Jack in the Box restaurants in 1992 and 1993. Last month, the Burlington group and the Consumer Federation of America wrote to the FDA in support of a ban.

 

At the core of the issue is how the FDA has assessed companies' requests to use carbon monoxide in their packaging.

 

It started about five years ago, when Pactiv Corp. of Lake Forest, Ill., urged the FDA to declare the approach "generally recognized as safe," or GRAS -- a regulatory category that allows a firm to proceed with its plans without public review or formal agency "approval."

 

The FDA told Pactiv in 2002 it had no argument with the proposal. In 2004, Precept Foods received a similar letter, and recently Tyson did as well.

 

The FDA has also deemed carbon monoxide GRAS for keeping tuna looking fresh.

 

A changing market

Kalsec acknowledges having an economic interest in fighting the practice. The company sells extracts of rosemary and other natural essences that help block the oxidation that turns meat brown. Its products have allowed meat packagers to use high-oxygen atmospheres in sealed packages to maintain freshness without having to worry about browning.

 

That is a market that could largely disappear as packagers switch to low-oxygen atmospheres with carbon monoxide -- an approach that keeps meat looking red not just longer, but almost indefinitely.

 

But Kalsec, and the consumer advocates who have signed on to the fight, say it is not just the market in extracts that is at risk.

 

They note that the European Union has banned the use of carbon monoxide as a color stabilizer in meat and fish. A December 2001 report from the European Commission's Scientific Committee on Food concluded that the gas (whose chemical abbreviation is "CO") did not pose a risk as long as food was kept cold enough during storage and transport to prevent microbial growth. But should the meat become inadvertently warmer at some point, it warned, "the presence of CO may mask visual evidence of spoilage."

 

How is it, Berdahl and others ask, that something can be deemed "generally recognized as safe" when there is enough scientific debate over the issue to warrant a ban in Europe?

 

"I just picture a refrigerator truck breaking down in Arizona and sitting there for an afternoon. Then, 'Hey, we got it repaired and nobody knows the difference,' and there you go."

 

Opponents also say the FDA was wrong to consider carbon monoxide a color fixative rather than a color additive -- a crucial decision because additives must pass a rigorous FDA review. They note that freshly cut meat looks purplish red, and that the addition of carbon monoxide -- which binds to a muscle protein called myoglobin -- turns it irreversibly pink.

 

What is deceptive?

Proponents of the gas counter that meat turns from purple to red just from sitting in air, and that CO prevents the next step, in which meats turn brown. They also say consumers should pay attention to "sell or freeze by" dates as the best indicator of freshness.

 

George H. Pauli, associate director for science and policy in the FDA's Office of Food Additive Safety, defended the agency's decisions. "In general, statute says you cannot use [substances] in a deceptive manner, and the question is what is a deceptive manner," Pauli said.

 

He emphasized that the agency has never formally approved the gas's use, but rather looked at information provided by the companies and decided not to object.

 

"We said, 'Thank you, you've helped inform us,' " Pauli said.

 

That is what has opponents most upset.

 

"The FDA should not have accepted carbon monoxide in meat without doing its own independent evaluation of the safety implications," Elizabeth Campbell, former head of the FDA's office of food labeling, wrote in a statement released in November.

 

Bucky Gwartney, executive director for research and knowledge management for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, chafes at the idea that the industry is trying to fool consumers.

 

"It would be ludicrous for a company to adopt a process that would undermine what we all want, which is to assure that food is safe," Gwartney said. "Maybe it needs to be more transparent and public," he acknowledged. "If that's what we need to do, we'll probably do that as an industry."

 

Research editor Lucy Shackelford contributed to this report.

 

[Jimbroni]

YUK.

 

 

Glad I buy my meat from a meat market and not a grocery store.

[blackpig]

I never buy pre-packaged meat. I get it all from a local butcher who displays the names and addresses of the farmers that supply him. He's required to do this by law, apparently. It's nice to go into a local shop and buy meat supplied by a farmer that you sometimes actually know.

[ViLo]

I'm a vegetarian

[Jimbroni]

Originally posted by ViLo I'm a vegetarian

 

Yeah I heard Deet is better tasting than CO.

[Super 8]

What's the big deal? Check your dates.

 

I eat packaged meat from the grocery store all the time, and I've never gotten sick or died from it.

 

I understand people's concerns, but I also can see where the industry is coming from.

 

 

The hope is that it will save the industry much of the $1 billion it says it loses annually from having to discount or discard meat that is reasonably fresh and perfectly safe but no longer pretty.

 

 

Makes perfect sense to me. It cuts down on a lot of needless waste.

[Kiwiburger]

This is the tip of the iceberg. You really don't want to know about the poisons and nuclear radiation and other tricks that are used to make food inedible. If food is inedible, the bacteria and other intelligent forms of life don't eat the {censored}. Except humans it seems.

 

It is truely alarming the way food has been modified in the last 10 years. Don't look at your parents and say "well it didn't kill them", because they spent most of their lives eating real food.

 

Carbon Monoxide is what kills people when they decide to off themselves with exhaust gas in their car. The major components of exhaust gas are water and carbon dioxide (both harmless), but there is a very small component of carbon monoxide (depending on how 'lean' your engine is tuned) which is what kills you.

 

Carbon Monoxide kills you because it fools your haemaglobin that it is Oxygen, so your blood fills up with the wrong stuff - result death.

 

The disturbing thing about this meat deception is that you would have no idea how old the meat really is. Do you really believe lables? Do people ever lie for money? Have you ever heard about the companies that buy expired meat - saying it is for pet food - and then they wash it, color and sell it as new meat?

 

The FDA has proved countless times that it is primarily a money making racket for people in the club. Health is exactly the last thing on their minds. I personally wonder if this is some form of population control?

[bbach]

Oh for Christ sakes! Who the hell buys their meat in a grocery store? Get to a rancher and buy a side of beef every so often. Fresh grain fed and tasty. Get a freezer and keep it in there you knuckleheads. You don't need to eat grass and shrubs to be happy.

[Kiwiburger]

Don't have a cow, man.

[KHAN]

Originally posted by Kiwiburger Don't have a cow, man.

 

 

 

[John Sayers]

You don't need to eat grass and shrubs to be happy.

 

No - but a cow does. Grain fed beef is lacking in omega 3 as it usually gains this in it's typical diet of grass.I get good quality, locally grown grass fed beef. Tasty, as you say

 

cheers

john

[Super 8]

 

Originally posted by Kiwiburger If food is inedible, the bacteria and other intelligent forms of life don't eat the {censored}. Except humans it seems.

 

 

When did bacteria become "intelligent"?

 

The disturbing thing about this meat deception is that you would have no idea how old the meat really is. Do you really believe lables? Do people ever lie for money?

 

 

I have no problem with labels. There are laws that govern this stuff. Companies, and the FDA argue over what information should be on the label, or how it should be presented, but they aren't allowed to outright lie and tell you expired food is not expired. If there's a loophole for that, I haven't seen it.

Have you ever worked at a food establishment when the health inspector comes around? Try bribing one sometime.

 

Have you ever heard about the companies that buy expired meat - saying it is for pet food - and then they wash it, color and sell it as new meat?

 

 

I have serious doubts about this. First of all, no reputable vender would buy the meat from them because if it makes people sick it's going to come down on the vender for stocking it. The lawsuits after a while would get a little expensive, I'd imagine.

 

The FDA has proved countless times that it is primarily a money making racket for people in the club. Health is exactly the last thing on their minds. I personally wonder if this is some form of population control?

 

 

Well if it is, it doesn't seem to be working very well. People are living longer than they ever have, and seem to be remaining healthy. More people now than ever are eating food from resturants, which is probably some of the lowest quality of food you're going to get, and the only problem I'm seeing is that they're just getting a lot fatter.

You aren't gonna get too fat if you're puking and {censored}ting yourself to death everytime you eat a rancid hamburger.

 

Honestly, I think you are overreacting big time. The problem isn't the quality of the food supply. The problem is that people don't make good dietary choices, and eat a lot high-fat, high-carb foods, with little to no nutritional value.

The evidence? A rise in obesity, and type-2 diabeties.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't think there is any evidence to back your claims.

[Kiwiburger]

Ok - maybe i'm paranoid, but I think you are naive.

 

The petfood recycling scandal was a real news event from a few years ago. You only hear about it when they get caught.

 

You seem to have a lot of faith in labels and in people and in laws. The reason we have laws is because people like to cheat other people, given half a chance. The laws don't stop them - they just make sure they don't get caught.

 

As for intelligent bacteria - you seem to have missed the sarcasm. The point is that humans eat stuff that bugs don't eat. So who is more intelligent?

 

The marketing has been effective. We now eat all sorts of chemical {censored} and deceive ourselves that it is food.

 

Obesity and Diabetes will kill you. It concerns me to see these overweight people lumbering thru the super markets with their trollies full of inedibile {censored}. Bottles of Coke - even diet coke is harmful.

 

This generation is likely to be the first generation that does not live longer than their parents. See the little fat people stuffing themselves at MacDonalds, already wearing glasses and suffering from asthma. They will probably die of diabetes complications in their early 30's.

 

I am not stating anything new - i'm quoting from various sources, i'm not making this up. Just do a google and see what many other people are saying.

 

Where is the nutrition in the food you are eating? Do you have any idea how many toxins you are eating?

 

Have a look at the rates for murders and suicides, compared with previous generations. There are many causes, but I think poor nutrition is a major one.

 

Doctors/General Practicioners have very little training in health and nutrition. They are better trained in disease and drugs - that's where the money is.

 

But a little understanding of the importance of good nutrition might save your life one day.

[Kiwiburger]

And my first point is that there is enough bad stuff happening in the food chain.

 

I am appalled to hear about yet another assault on the people of America.

 

And I sure as hell hope it doesn't come here to New Zealand. We are so lucky here at the moment.

 

Carbon Monoxide in your meat - what next?

[bbach]

Originally posted by John Sayers No - but a cow does. Grain fed beef is lacking in omega 3 as it usually gains this in it's typical diet of grass.I get good quality, locally grown grass fed beef. Tasty, as you say cheers john

 

Oh man, no where near as tender and fat my friend. My father in law is a cattle rancher. Obviously, they are fed on a diet of grass and hay. However, a couple months before we butcher, we just gotta take them aside and give them a great diet of grain mixed in with their regular couisine. Then do your own butchering or take it to a trusted friend. You won't have to worry about your cuts getting ground up with others who were not so careful in their preparation. Mmmmmmm. Best grilling steaks ever.

[Gus Lozada]

I am a Vagitarian...

[Brittanylips]

 

Originally posted by Super 8 First of all, no reputable vender would buy the meat from them because if it makes people sick it's going to come down on the vender for stocking it.

 

What about the situation in which a truck's air conditioning cuts out for a few hours, and meat that would normally show spoilage continues to look rosy red? The label doesn't help, and usual cues that the meat is bad would be disguised.

 

the other day I was in the supermarket and they had two rows of sausages. Old and just-made. The old looked nasty, the fresh looked good. This new technique would remove that visual cue so that old and new would look the same.

 

In the words of awesome Japanese punk-rap supervixens Cibo Matto:

 

YOU GOT TO KNOW YOUR CHICKEN....

 

(great song)

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[joxer96]

Geez, so much overreacting. Take a whiff of that steak before you throw it on the grill, if it smells bad, don't eat it no matter how good it looks. It's quite simple, really.

 

And this sort of stuff is nothing new. During shipping and storage, fruit is sometimes put into a dormant stage by using the right combination of gases. Apples can lay dormant for months, and they'll taste and look just fine afterwards. This has been going on for years and years, we're all still alive.

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Kiwiburger Ok - maybe i'm paranoid, but I think you are naive.

 

I'm not surprised. Paranoid people always think everyone else is naive. Pessimists always think they are realists.

By the way, I didn't say you were paranoid, I said you were overreacting.

 

The petfood recycling scandal was a real news event from a few years ago. You only hear about it when they get caught.

 

Okay, so because there was one unscrupulous company that got caught years years ago, that means everyone is doing it? The problem is wide-spread, you're just not hearing about it.

That's the thing about conspiracy theories, there's always a nugget of truth to them. That's what drives people. Everytime someone gets busted for breaking the law, that's proof of the theory. If no one's getting busted, there must be a massive cover-up.

 

You seem to have a lot of faith in labels and in people and in laws. The reason we have laws is because people like to cheat other people, given half a chance.

 

No. SOME people will cheat others. MOST people are decent, and believe that by doing right by their customers they will ensure their long-term success.

 

 

As for intelligent bacteria - you seem to have missed the sarcasm. The point is that humans eat stuff that bugs don't eat. So who is more intelligent?

 

So you are telling me that if I throw some meat outside no animals will eat it?

 

Obesity and Diabetes will kill you. It concerns me to see these overweight people lumbering thru the super markets with their trollies full of inedibile {censored}. Bottles of Coke - even diet coke is harmful.

 

Coke is not harmful, it just has no nutritional value, aside from hydration.

 

Yes, I see fat people when I stand on line at the market, and their carts are always the same. Pop, ice cream, sugar cereals, ten different kinds of snack food, maybe beer and smokes.

 

But the problem is not that they have no healthy options. The problem is that they CHOOSE not to eat nutritious food. They CHOOSE instead to eat high carb, high fat foods that taste great but are not good for them. So, the industry is not to blame for that, and neither is the government. The responsibility rests with the consumer.

 

See the little fat people stuffing themselves at MacDonalds, already wearing glasses and suffering from asthma. They will probably die of diabetes complications in their early 30's.

 

Well, I'm not sure what wearing glasses or asthma have to do with any of this.

The obesity problem is a serious one, but McDonalds isn't holding a gun to anyone's heard and saying; "You want that supersized, right?" People make their own choices. We are now able to live in a time where people can choose taste over sustenance, and that's what they go for. Nobody eats to stay alive anymore, they eat for the pleasure and experience of eating. And that's the problem. Kids eat high fat, high carb foods, and then they plop themselves down in front of their Xbox for hours on end, and they get fat. It's a major problem, but, as I've said before, it's not the fault of the industry or the government.

 

I am not stating anything new - i'm quoting from various sources, i'm not making this up. Just do a google and see what many other people are saying.

 

Dude, I can 'google' almost anything. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true or accurate information.

 

Have a look at the rates for murders and suicides, compared with previous generations. There are many causes, but I think poor nutrition is a major one.

 

That's funny. I was just reading another website that blames murders, suicides, and teen pregnancy on the fact that evolution is being taught in schools.

 

Gosh, who to believe???

 

Doctors/General Practicioners have very little training in health and nutrition. They are better trained in disease and drugs - that's where the money is.

 

I don't think that's true across the board. Some doctors keep up on the latest research, and some don't. Our task is to find the one's that do.

 

But a little understanding of the importance of good nutrition might save your life one day.

 

Now we're in agreement.

[Super 8]

 

Originally posted by Brittanylips What about the situation in which a truck's air conditioning cuts out for a few hours, and meat that would normally show spoilage continues to look rosy red? The label doesn't help, and usual cues that the meat is bad would be disguised.

 

 

I understand your concern, but do air conditioning units regularly shut down? That's like saying I'm never going to fly because air planes crash.

 

Now while, a situtation like the one you've described could certainly occur, wouldn't it make more sense for the company to throw out the bad meat and write it off as a loss, rather than risk the impending lawsuits because their customers are dying of botulism?

 

the other day I was in the supermarket and they had two rows of sausages. Old and just-made. The old looked nasty, the fresh looked good. This new technique would remove that visual cue so that old and new would look the same.

 

 

Yeah, but that's the point. The older meat didn't look like the new meat, but does that mean that the older meat was no longer good to eat? We live in a time of plenty, so if something doesn't look right to us, you just grab the next one. But both might be just fine to eat. So what happens? The industry is apparently throwing out a billion dollars worth of good food a year, because it lacks visual appeal. That's not just costly, it's wasteful.

 

So they come up with a safe way to preserve the look of the meat. I really can't blame them for that. I would have done the same thing.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Super 8 What's the big deal? Check your dates. I eat packaged meat from the grocery store all the time, and I've never gotten sick or died from it. I understand people's concerns, but I also can see where the industry is coming from. Makes perfect sense to me. It cuts down on a lot of needless waste.

 

Check the dates? How many grocery stores have been busted re-packing meat?

 

And this would make it even easier to repack product that should be discarded.

 

And I couldn't care less about the "industry's" point of view. I worked for one of the biggest food companies in the world for 8 1/2 years. And I can tell you the food industry is just as unethical and corrupt as any other.

 

Just research factory farming and/or the use of modern pesticides in crop production. These companies don't care about anything other than profit margin.

 

And when the super bug comes and wipes out a large number of people, you will not have any problem showing a correlation between factory farming and the rise of resistant bacteria and viruses.

 

It isn't magic that makes it possible to raise meat/poultry in the dark, in a cage no bigger than the animal.

 

It takes massive amounts of anti-biotics and such to make this possible.

 

And where do all these anti-biotics and pesticides/etc end up?

 

The water supply.

 

I know I'm on a rant, but modern farming and meat/poultry production are doing serious damage to the environment.

 

And knowing what I know about this type of stuff, I don't have any part of me that would sympathise with the "industry".

 

 

Better stick this one in the poli forum.

And/or maybe I should avoid threads that will provoke me into some rant.

 

Last winter we had a major ice storm that knocked out power in the county for almost a week. I knnow plenty of people that work at the local monopolistic big chain. (Take a guess?)

And everybody I know that worked there told me specifically to not buy anything that needed to be kept cool and/or frozen. I was told to wait a couple of weeks until the newer product had replaced what was there.

No product was disposed of that any of these people were aware of. Yeah.

 

Hearsay, but coming from this company, I don't doubt it.

[the stranger]

 

Originally posted by Super 8 Honestly, I think you are overreacting big time. The problem isn't the quality of the food supply. The problem is that people don't make good dietary choices, and eat a lot high-fat, high-carb foods, with little to no nutritional value. The evidence? A rise in obesity, and type-2 diabeties. I'm sorry, but I don't think there is any evidence to back your claims.

 

 

Uh...no evidence? Try typing factory farming into google. That's just a start. After you do that, try pesticides and/or fertilizers in crop production.

[the stranger]

Originally posted by Super 8 Dude, I can 'google' almost anything. Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true or accurate information.

 

There is a {censored}load of scientists that will back up what we are saying here.

 

And do you reallt trust the FDA? How many times have they been implicated in letting something go to market that later is proven to be a serious health risk?

 

And putting out food that animals won't touch? Yeah. Like I said, I worked for one of the largest food companies in the world for 8 1/2 years.

And out in the waste area, there would sit drums of waste product. Most of this stuff could sit out in the baking sun in the middle of summer and never attract a single fly. Wtf?

A 55 gallon open drum of waste milk that won't attract a single bug...not a single critter would touch the stuff.

 

I try to avoid this companies products if I can. Sadly, they are one of the biggest of food corps and they control about a significant amount of the worlds food supply.

 

I'm not sure what good all this ranting is going to do.

The majority of Americans are drinking water that comes right out of the waste water and sewage we generate.

 

Turn on your tap, you are drinking the chemicalized return of everything that went down everybodies toilet a week earlier.

I don't expect people who don't mind drinking other people's piss and {censored} to be too concerned about the food supply.

 

Super,

These comments aren't really directed at you, just the opinions you shared.

And you knw how I get about everything.

[Super 8]

Why am I not surprised to see Stranger jumping on this issue?

 

I'm not going to go point-for-point with you because......well, there just aren't enough hours in the day.

 

Keep in mind, I'm not addressing Monsanto, or so-called 'factory farming'. Those are separate issues, and there are many valid criticisms there. I'm just talking about preserving the color of some meat. I acknowledge people's concerns, but I also understand why the industry is doing it.

 

Originally posted by the stranger And knowing what I know about this type of stuff, I don't have any part of me that would sympathise with the "industry".

 

I know, Stranger. I've read your rants for a few years now. You think everyone is out to get you.

 

 

Originally posted by the stranger Super, These comments aren't really directed at you, just the opinions you shared. And you knw how I get about everything.

 

Yes, I know how you get. But you know that I still love you.

[MorePaul]

It is truely alarming the way food has been modified in the last 10 years.

 

 

try 10,000