The Pros and the Nobodies!

[audioicon]

Over all my years of recording, singing, and producing music I have noticed the following. 1. People always have problems with your music, a. either because you are not a grammy award winning producer/singer/songwriter. Or they know you because you are their neighbor/co-worker/boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

I have noticed when people post their songs, nobody will just say hey! it sounds great, great work. Even though some will praised your work, they always have something to say about it or try to make you feel less professional. Example. If a grammy award engineer/producer recorded a song that has heavy plate reverb in the kick and called it the "spagette kick" everyone will love it.

But if an unknown song producer/engineer tries it, there will be tons of people telling him that's not the way to do it.

 

My question is, is it hard for people to just say hey! Your song sounds great, or I like it. They you always have to find a problem with another person work?

 

For me music is never about technicality but rather the appeal to the everyday listener. Music is not something you make under a microscope in a clean room or at the NASA Space center, music can sometimes become a hit because a band decided to get drunk/high and play that night or a guitarist catches is wife blowing another guy and picks the strings so hard that it made the song a hit.

 

There is a guy on here who posted his song and I thought it was great but people started fussing about the reverb, bow{censored}! Will any one fuss if bruce had done that? Give the man some damn credit!

 

Audioicon.

[Ed A.]

 

Originally posted by audioicon Over all my years of recording, singing, and producing music I have noticed the following. 1. People always have problems with your music, a. either because you are not a grammy award winning producer/singer/songwriter. Or they know you because you are their neighbor/co-worker/boyfriend/girlfriend. I have noticed when people post their songs, nobody will just say hey! it sounds great, great work. Even though some will praised your work, they always have something to say about it or try to make you feel less professional. Example. If a grammy award engineer/producer recorded a song that has heavy plate reverb in the kick and called it the "spagette kick" everyone will love it. But if an unknown song producer/engineer tries it, there will be tons of people telling him that's not the way to do it.

 

 

 

I don't think a pro would be posting their music on a forum for feedback, people perceive that to be less than professional. Doing that IMO, is a sign of an amateur. A pro isn't so insecure that they need to know if their music is any good, they are already confident that it is.

You won't see Boards of Canada or BT, for example, posting music on forums looking for a critique.

[Synonym Music]

Originally posted by Ed A. I don't think a pro would be posting their music on a forum for feedback, people perceive that to be less than professional. Doing that IMO, is a sign of an amateur. A pro isn't so insecure that they need to know if their music is any good, they are already confident that it is. You won't see Boards of Canada or BT, for example, posting music on forums looking for a critique.

 

That doesn't necessarily make their music good to everyone else, however.

[Prog]

Originally posted by audioicon My question is, is it hard for people to just say hey! Your song sounds great, or I like it.

It makes no sense for a musician to look for fans on a musician's forum. Go to a fan forum if you want fans and adulation.

[Billster]

Originally posted by audioicon My question is, is it hard for people to just say hey! Your song sounds great, or I like it. They you always have to find a problem with another person work?

 

On this type of site it is.

 

My view is that if you are tossing music around on a site like this, you may be aspiring to the opportunity to be involved in a top-flight musical production.

 

So if the question is "Is the song any good? Can you hum along?", then debating reverb is indeed pointless.

 

If the question is "Did I make a clean production of this band?", then debate the reverb or whatever.

 

And it's not about seeking fans, Prog. It's about sharing opinions.

[blue2blue]

Well... I've never had any trouble be thoroughly unprofessional. I hate the music biz, so, really... it's kind of the appropriate thing for me, I think.

 

Frankly, I think a LOT more "pros" probably SHOULD post their work for feedback.

 

 

With regard to criticism or even nitpicking... I'm aware some people don't want to hear even constructive criticism -- I just wish they'd wear a bell or something.

 

 

Me... I've sometimes craved critical feedback so much I've insulted people in forums where I was posting.

 

It's often easy to get compliments, I think, sincere/warranted or otherwise, but sometimes it's hard to get people to really open up with what they think. (I think folks here are a little more forthcoming on that front, which is another reason I kind of like it.)

 

 

[The real trouble comes from artists who say they want criticism and then get defensive or hostile. Having been involved with online music since the late 90s (ah, the old MP3.com, those were the days, my friend) I've run into a few, thankfully few, of them... but they stick in memory, often as not.]

[Prog]

Originally posted by Billster And it's not about seeking fans, Prog . It's about sharing opinions.

Exactly what I said. If you don't want any critiques, don't ask for opinions from other musicians. Practitioners of any given art or craft invariably examine the detail of the art or craft.

[MorePaul]

Prog - I was a bit confused with Billster addressing you on that point too

 

I get the sense Billster just used the wrong name (I think he was meaning to address Icon)

[audioicon]

I did not talk about getting angry, I'm not talking about myself.

And I'm not asking people to agree with me nor am I refering to songs on this forum accept that one song.

 

When I make a song, it's for a targeted audience, I'm not looking for people to say it's good or it's not. Basically my song are about more lyrics and less instrumentation depending on the lyrics.

Either you like my music because I'm say go f-- o--. Or you hate it.

 

Nobody can be too pro my friend because in the end you need someone to listen to your song and buy it or spread the news about it. So the so called pro not putting their song on here doesn't mean anything.

 

When Michael Jackson spent thirty million on his CD, I'm sure he did not put it in this or other forum but guess what? It did not sell.

But I'm not talking about that either.

The point is when someone well known does something, it's a new style, when someone unknown does something, it's mostly a mistake/error!

 

Audioicon.

[audioicon]

By the way, I have never posted a song in any forum, Like I said when I write a song, it's about deep inner thoughts and I don't need people to tell me whats good or bad about that. But I love this site and all you guys for the "technical help."

 

I'm currently mixing a song I recorded about the war in Sierra Leone, were thousands of children hands including babies were cut/chopped of by rebels. The song represent the voices of the children and thier parents asking God and politicians were they are going, they want to write but they dont have hands.

 

You think I'm going to post that song on a website asking for views? It's very personal, I live and went to school in Sierra Leone. But just so you know everything I have ever learn, I learn from people.

 

Audioicon

[MorePaul]

Icon -

 

We may be having a language barrier problem

 

Folks were answering what they saw as your thesis question

 

"My question is, is it hard for people to just say hey! Your song sounds great, or I like it. They you always have to find a problem with another person work?"

 

 

To that, the answers seem genuine and thoughtful - so perhaps we are having a reciprocal communication problem (the question or at least the context didn't translate well and the answers may not have back translated well)

 

 

I think one communication problem we were running into was you mentioned a lot of stuff and then mentioned "but that's not what I'm talking about" -- which can be rather confusing in (especially USA style) English

 

[i am, unfortunately, king daddy of the appositive, parenthetical, aside, digression,etc - and it drives other forumites nuts - so I can feel the pain on that one.]

 

 

[audioicon]

MorePaul, thanks for being comical. Since there is a problem with english, the Defence rest!

 

 

 

Audioicon

[Billster]

 

Originally posted by MorePaul Prog - I was a bit confused with Billster addressing you on that point too I get the sense Billster just used the wrong name (I think he was meaning to address Icon)

 

 

I was under the impression that Prog was thinking Icon was looking for fans...

 

 

Originally posted by Prog Exactly what I said. If you don't want any critiques, don't ask for opinions from other musicians. Practitioners of any given art or craft invariably examine the detail of the art or craft.

 

 

Right, but I think what Icon is addressing is that the critiques are left field. For instance if you toss up a song and ask "Does this lyrical topic speak to you?", why do you get a critique about the eq on the quitar? Or if you ask about the presence of the drum sounds, why do people launch off on tangents about lyrics are lame?

[ronnie rawhide]

I know I've listened to some great music on this site, and some not so good... I had some constructive criticism for the the "not so good" but chose to keep that to myself, Musicians, by and large are very sensitive individuals, I, personally value tips and suggestions about production, sound quality etc. As far as my lyrics, chord progressions, hooks ,etc. I don't handle criticism that well, I'm happy to be able to say that I've had far more positive feedback to my original stuff than negative. I bought one CD "future junk" by the Mates and just PMed Lee Flier after listening to her band, and plan to buy their CD as well, (they do a great cover of one of my fave Byrds song "It's so hard being hear without you" The harmonies are impeccable and her work on the 12 string Ric is very commendable ...almost as good as mine;) This is music I would have never heard if it wasn't for this site. just my dos centavos.

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by audioicon MorePaul, thanks for being comical. Since there is a problem with english, the Defence rest!

 

 

You are welcome, I wasn't meaning to be...however I am a naturally funny dude! (of course, the people who tell me that usually mention 'look')

 

But yeah, translation of usage style across languages (or simply regional styles) can be a real beast - while the words fit together more-or-less grammatically correct...sometimes there is a whole subtext tying them together (that's why the better L10N firms use native-to-target speakers only)

 

Notice how Bill, Prog..and myself, are having some communicaion missteps

 

 

the Defence rest!

 

 

I certainly hope you don't see it as an adversarial process, I don't think it wasanyone's intent -- but rather, I think everyone was attempting to answer what they saw as your thesis

 

[blue2blue]

 

Originally posted by MorePaul Icon - We may be having a language barrier problem Folks were answering what they saw as your thesis question "My question is, is it hard for people to just say hey! Your song sounds great, or I like it. They you always have to find a problem with another person work?" To that, the answers seem genuine and thoughtful - so perhaps we are having a reciprocal communication problem (the question or at least the context didn't translate well and the answers may not have back translated well) I think one communication problem we were running into was you mentioned a lot of stuff and then mentioned "but that's not what I'm talking about" -- which can be rather confusing in (especially USA style) English [i am, unfortunately, king daddy of the appositive, parenthetical, aside, digression,etc - and it drives other forumites nuts - so I can feel the pain on that one.]

 

 

I don't have enough coffee (well... any) in me to defend what I think should be my title as king daddy of the appositive, parenthetical aside (btw, you don't need that comma between "parenthetical" and "aside") -- but I knew the day when MorePaul and me (or some Paul and me [so many Pauls here]) would butt heads over something like this was coming... I've been saving up parentheses, brackets, ellipses, and double dashes (would they had true em-dashes) and when the time comes I will make (what I feel is) my (legitimate -- and worthy) case...

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by blue2blue (btw, you don't need that comma between "parenthetical" and "aside")

 

 

Ha! Blue][blue -- I didn't mean "parenthetical" and "aside" to be linked as one entinty but rather was using 'parenthetical' in a noun form (as in a shortening of 'parenthetical expression'phrase, or what-have-you') and 'aside' as a separate entity entirely (reffing not so much a parenthetical amplifier, but a stylistic/dramatic aside) -- seriously, that was my intent

 

[Note : I'm stepping up the competition with the use of an italic font!! -- bring it you bitch!!!]

 

 

take that you 6502 hater!

but that actually brings up the good point abt how English can rely on punctuation to majke these disctinctions...there was that book "Eats shoot and leaves" discussing such things

 

BTW - I'm OUT of coffee and FREAKING OUT

again, seriously and again...italic font....BITCH!!!

 

oh, and thanks for the Sandisk rec -- I think I'll prob go that way...the geek in me want that fancy shmancy Tao one, but...the adult in me says nol

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by audioicon If a grammy award engineer/producer recorded a song that has heavy plate reverb in the kick and called it the "spagette kick" everyone will love it. But if an unknown song producer/engineer tries it, there will be tons of people telling him that's not the way to do it.

 

Well maybe it's because a Grammy winning engineer would never do a thing like that, and if an unknown does it - well that's why he's unknown.

 

But seriously, yeah there are some people who have to nit pick about stupid irrelevant stuff. But mostly they're just trying to help. On a musicians' or engineers' forum people assume that if you post stuff, you'd like to get some feedback. And if you do something unusual like put lots of reverb on the kick drum, well, sometimes something different strikes people in a good way and other times it just sounds cheesy. Just because somebody does something against the grain doesn't make it good, any more than it makes it bad. In the end no matter who did a recording, people will hear it and either like it or not, and some will voice their opinions louder and in more detail than others. No big deal really, and I don't think it has anything to do with whether someone's a "pro" or a "nobody."