Classical music can be so boring

[Han]

But look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux1Smkhn5Mc

[MorePaul]

Are you familiar with the McFerrin / Yo Yo Ma duet album?

 

 

There can actually be quite a bit of "lightness" in the classical scene (I mean c'mon PDQ Bach is like spinal tap), but the style of music isn't particularly supported by the popular music scene, so exposure to the richness and diversity of 'classical' (here I suppose we can include all the "Classic" periods) music scenes

[blue2blue]

Classical music can be so boring

 

 

Three words: The Rite of Spring

 

(Le Sacre du Printemps)

[amplayer]

Bartok

[Godot]

 

Originally posted by blue2blue Classical music can be so boring Three words: The Rite of Spring (Le Sacre du Printemps)

 

 

Good call. That's music to make you sit up and take notice.

[blue2blue]

Um... better make that four words.

 

 

I THOUGHT I fixed that... ah well, that's what I get for doing IMPORTANT WORK at the coffeehouse while people are chatting me up...

[Anderton]

Classical music is boring when played by union hacks who put it over on their audience because they play the game of being "cultured." Oh, we're so cultured, we listen to classical music!

 

If you want classical music, listen to some of the kickass recordings by no-name orchestras out of former iron curtain countries who play classical music with passion, and with at least what I think is a real understanding of the dynamics and power behind the best classical music.

 

There were a lot of these recordings on Nonesuch in the 70s, because they couldn't afford the big-name Philharmonics. I have no idea where you'd find that kind of music these days. The best Brandenburgs I ever heard was from some orchestra I'd never heard of...Sure, Music Antiqua of Koln is okay, period instruments, historical interest, and all that...but put your money on the People's Oppressed Orchestra of Lower Transylvania, any time!

 

To my ears, so many classical music RENDITIONS sound stilted and have about as much feel as today's sequenced stuff. It doesn't have to be. Baroque classical music can really swing, Bach's stuff was incredibly lyrical, and Beethoven's symphonies were the equivalent of a stack of Marshalls. Even minor players like Couperin could really rock on occasion.

 

Imagine what it must have been like to hear rumors of some amazing new Beethoven symphony, and how lucky you were to be able to get tickets.

 

You dismount the carriage, and pay your cabbie as you see the breath of the horses form a mist in the winter evening. You go into the hall, tentatively moving past the throngs of people abuzz with rumors about the latest symphony - and of course, the naysayers who say it will probably not be as good as the last one - and find your seat. It's chilly, and you wait with anticipation while the sheer mass of people, and the gas lamps, add some welcome warmth. The conductor steps out, nods, and smiles, knowing what is about to be unleashed. He raises the baton - and 120dB of strings, brass, and percussion hit you like a sledgehammer. The audience gasps; the orchestra plays like madmen as their bows don't caress the violins, but literally tear into the strings...

 

That's what it was about, not stuffed shirts thinking they're cooler than you because they like classical music.

[Fendercaster]

I grew up listening to classical music, and still enjoy it immensely. As a guitarist, though, I've never gotten into classical guitar music. I prefer full orchestral works, primarily by the Russian composers of the late 19th - early 20th centuries. I did enjoy the PDQ Bach albums, pretty innovative for the '60's!

[John Sayers]

Thanks Han - that was amazing! It was the true interface between the classic and the romantic. A classic video.

 

cheers

john

[MorePaul]

My experience has been opposite of Fendercaster's (not that either is 'correct' but just in terms of what we got into)

 

some of it may be (and we may need to clarify terms) is that I grew up more with "early music" which is pre-classical preiod, but gets classed as 'classical music' (which is why some folks go with 'classic' as opposed to 'classical') wherein the ensembles tended to be smaller - these seem to suit tarragement for modern (as opposed to baroque) classical (or "classic" if you prefer) guitar

[Han]

 

Originally posted by Anderton Classical music is boring when played by union hacks who put it over on their audience because they play the game of being "cultured." Oh, we're so cultured, we listen to classical music! If you want classical music, listen to some of the kickass recordings by no-name orchestras out of former iron curtain countries who play classical music with passion, and with at least what I think is a real understanding of the dynamics and power behind the best classical music.

 

 

How right you are Craig. Last week I was in the old town Enkhuizen and there in front of the huge church were four guys from the east of Europe playing classical music on three accordeons and a tuba. Accordeons with knobs, no keys.

 

And they played Bach, Mozart (eine kleine nachtmusik) and Vivaldi (the winter from the four seasons).

 

And really Craig, that was brilliant, awesome you guys say. It was so beautiful that words can not express this.

 

And they are streetmusicians, who atually belong in a huge concertbuilding.

 

These things happen every now and then when you take a walk, nothing sounds better than the real thing.

[monstermaker]

Classical music is a discipline. It should be appreciated in any form.

[percyexpat]

I think classical music is extremely difficult to get into if you're not brought up with it in your life because its so dauntingly immense. So many composers over such a long time scale and with so many works per each composer! Plus the terminology is far from straightforward for a newb. If you just turn on the radio and tune into Classic FM chances are you won't like what you hear but tune into Radio 1, 2, 3...anything and theres a fair chance you won't like what you hear! (well thats my experience anyway!). I suppose it just takes patience!...I mean, if you knew NOTHING of 20th Century 'rock' music, i.e. everything derived vaguely from rhythm and blues, where would you start? You'd probably listen to a handful of songs and think 'this is total crap'. You've just got to find what appeals to you I guess...and maybe thats nothing at all but i'm sure theres something for most people in there!

[arellspencer]

classic music boring? try playing a few notes of some carcassi and then ast me iff you is bored. I'll say hail no!

hail; I said!

[Han]

I think most of you haven't watched the video in my first post?

[MorePaul]

Itned to think the "25 studies" should, like little chocolate doughnuts, be on everyone's training table

 

It think one nice thing about those kinds of pieces is it can help with the 'introduction to the alien' percy speaks - making the whole thing less daunting.

 

 

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Not if you perform it properly...

 

 

[blue2blue]

 

Originally posted by Han I think most of you haven't watched the video in my first post?

 

 

I wasn't able to turn it up when I was in this thread before but it looked like goofy good fun, which, now that I'm hearing it, is clearly the case.

 

I do have to say that as much as I appreciate the demystification of classical music -- and as important as stuff like Fantasia was for me getting started with classical (it provoked me to dig through my dad's old shellac 78s he bought in college), I sometimes get distressed that people like Yo Yo Ma are reduced to playing "white wine and cheese" music, new age, psuedo-world music, etc, in order to maintain a public profile...

 

Don't get me wrong -- it's necessary in order to hopefully draw a few new potential orchestral/serious music fans in, I guess. But I can't shake the feeling that there's something inherently cheezy about the whole biz.

 

(BTW, I saw McFerrin back in the 80s with the LA Phil, IIRC, at the H'wood Bowl and it was a lot of fun.)

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by Han I think most of you haven't watched the video in my first post?

 

 

 

Dunno, I think a number of us watched it or are familiar with it (McFerrin's done a number of these sorts of things)

 

Oddly, it's not as much of a "meeting of different camps" as folks tend to think, Bobby comes from an operatic family!!

[goFish]

I grew up listening to classical music and didn't even know it... thanks to Bugs Bunny et al.

 

Then I went to college and they ruined it for me trying to teach theory, and why classical is so much more important, and what all the segments meant, blah, blah, blah.

 

All this just to say thanks to Warner Bros. for bringing the music to life for me.

[Anderton]

>

 

Damn good point IMHO. I was lucky enough to react to classical music solely from a visceral, emotional standpoint. When you hear a Beethoven symphony, it's a wall of sound with so many twists and turns...honestly I've never sat down and analyzed it, I just don't care. All I know is that it's music that's totally on the edge, as much as Archie Shepp was in his day.

 

And Bach...I must have heard 20 different versions of the Brandenburgs in my life, and I only like one of them. I have a feeling the other 19 were by people who were taught in college what all the segments meant

[John Sayers]

do you remember the Swingle Singers versions of Bach Craig?

 

GEM pinched huge chunks of it recently.

[blue2blue]

The Swingles transcended what should have been cheezy schtick... sometimes their stuff is just... amazing.

 

I mean, I don't usually have a big thing for Claire de Lune... but they do this crazy, shimmering a capela version that... glimmers in the moonlight.

 

 

Their 1812 Concerto is a bit much, though...

[MorePaul]

Then I went to college and they ruined it for me trying to teach theory, and why classical is so much more important, and what all the segments meant, blah, blah, blah.

 

 

That's sad in that it sounds like you had bad bad bad theachers -- teaching disrespect of other ways (which can be a dangerously seductive drug for those who have found value in a particular way)

 

I've found that learning about the underlying structure can really open it up for a lot of folks

(back in the day I had a theory prof and her typically expression was to excitedly say"...abnd the neat part is..." )

 

Like when people, through examination of the structure are let in to the little clever twist in the Goldberg variations by old man Bach.

 

Do I find that engaging that part of the mind takes away from an emotional sense? I don't, in many ways I find it makes one fully engaged, can give one more fodder for expression and frees one to play the music within the music.

I tend to find the one's who have a less firm command of whatever tend to be a little stiff...basal fear

 

 

stuffed shirts, sure - everywhre in every style be it uber-trad elitists, the avante guard who have 'moved beyond', the populist who poo-poos those exploring boundaries, the rebels who need to be contrarian

 

I thought JS handled the perspective well in the statement

"some usher in a new age, some complete an older one" -- it remains respectful to both sides

[joel Oporto]

What makes classical music boring?

 

The elitist attitudes that performers, composers, musicians can sometimes have when they play/create them. It becomes no fun as an audience.

They tend to forget that music at best is a form of communication. The music conveys ideas through emotional highs and lows and everything in between.

That is the foundation of music theory such as the modes and key signature and the basic I-IV-V peogression. You have the root( retention release etc.), subdominant(the wandering about carefree attitude), and the dominant(the tension which begs for release and hence back to the dominant).

You then take the audience in a musical "rollercoaster" ride

 

Whenever there is a failure to communicate, then as extended as classical music is, the result is an audience that gets bored. But when it is played with the exact enthusiasm and gusto and feel that the piece of music requires, then as with any type of music, whether classical, rock, jazz, dance, or whatever, the music will move the audience.

 

I grew up listening to all types of music without any previous biases to muddle my appreciations.

 

Only when I became a musician did I hear other musicians and teachers say that this and that are no good, this is better etc.

 

There are some pretty biased conservatory teachers out there, especially in the classical field, that think that just because they are in the classical field, they are important and people should seriously pay attention or whatever.

 

Whenever the music becomes elitist whether by composition or performance, it tends to become boring because:

 

Classical music is soooo broad that its many levels then becomes compartmentalized levels for specific listeners. It is the duty of teachers to signify those compartments or boxes.

 

For example, Some of the most boring pieces of classical music are the "modern" or "post modern" music by composers like hindemith, stravinsky, schoenberg and the ilk of that movement in musical composition. A "background check" on those composers will show that they were focused on the exploration of radical alternate harmonies and progressions that can be quite far out weird and hard to understand except by those who are actually into them. To an ordinary listener who did care to spend effort to research about the twelve tone system, will definitely get bored. Hence these composers are in a way, in the elitist compartment where their music are more for musicians only that are into the twelve-tone system as well.

 

We as western music listeners are conditioned to respond to the trappings of harmony and key signature.

 

I used to have music theory teachers that expounded on how so much better classical or jazz chords were compared to rock or even folk songs and that I should strive to create songs with such innovative chord substitutions and progressions like standards songs. They totally malaised rock/blues music for its 3 chord harmonies. What these people fail to percieve that dance, rock and blues is not about harmonies, its about energy, beat, attitude, angst and rebellion, and not about propriety or decorum.

 

My first proper exposure to heavy rock was with Kiss and Led Zeppelin.

At that time, I couldn't get it, It was just a wall of distorted sound. I wanted my james taylor, john denver, simon & Garfunkel etc. stuff. Iy was only years later when I was playing metallica and nirvana in one group and vivaldi concerto for guitar in another that I realized how Kiss actually sounded so lame compared to the new groups.

 

So the first order of music is that its played with enthusiasm, and a total commitment to communicate the ideas founded in the piece of music, so that whatever type of music it is, from bell kanto and vivaldi to Tool, Byork, and techno, You will not sound boring to a lot (albeit not all) of the audience.