Gus Lozada Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I got tired of my new MacBook Pro. I went on a one month clinics tour using this new machine. It was a nightmare. People knows that I am very cold-blooded, so when a computer crashes in the middle of a clinic, I just keep talking and explain why the machine crashed ....! ... but this time, everytime I had to switch from Pro Tools to Live, To Reason or any other audio app, the computer crashed. Even worse, when trying to open LIVE, it took me once up to ten times to re-open it. When switching audio interfaces, I had to reboot the computer. When connecting a new MIDI device, same, same same... I got tired of it. Add to it the fact that "BootCamp" has been kinda of a "Nightmare Camp" for many Intel Mac users, so running in a reliable way Win XP in a Mac is still far from what a road warrior requires. I will keep using the MacBook Pro for the clinics, but for my band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 19, 2006 Members Share Posted October 19, 2006 Gus Sorry to hear about your MBP! The new MacBooks (I haven't used a Pro) are such cute little lmachines. I was using one the other night. Compared to its owner's G4 flatscreen pedastal iMac it seemed like, well, it seemed like a modern computer. Sprightly. But the fan came on at unexpected times and was kinda loud, though, I have to say. The uber-fan on my Dell Centrino strikes me as loud, too -- but it seldom kicks in unless I'm doing big graphics or using a bunch of plug ins. Or it's really blinkin' hot and the battery is recharging, too... Then again, the little PB was so sleek and small. I'd rather tradeoff for quiet over size. But if you want something slim (and handsome) for pulling out of the briefcase at a meeting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Yeah, that happens too, but there is a firmware update regarding the fan behavior. ... still gets hot, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 19, 2006 Members Share Posted October 19, 2006 I'll try to make sure my pal gets any updates. He is the ultimate computer-phobe, though. I had to twist his arm to get him to try Garage Band -- and, natch, he fell in love with it about ten minutes in, when he 'got it'; happily, I was able to move him on to recording himself/guitar and doing some basic overdubs, which was the whole point in the first place. [He'd got me over to show him how to use his decade-plus old cassette multitracker... I made him promise to let me show him GB first. Happily, we never got to the multitracker.] Just out of curiosity, Gus, how's the heat/fan issues on your new Dell? I'm thinkin' it's probably a bit bigger than your MB Pro; hope that translates to easier cooling. Anyhow, I know not everyone is thumbs up on Dell but I love my now 2.5 year old Inspiron Centrino (especially now that I have a new battery and I'm back to getting 5 hour work sessions out of it). And the cheapo Dell I use as my home machine has been a very decent box. Very quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 19, 2006 Members Share Posted October 19, 2006 Weird, I've seen several complaints about the MacBook Pros lately, even things like "It runs too hot". I'm using an old 5 1/2 year old G4 and it's still running really well. The only problem I have ever had with it was a succession of faulty OWC (Other World Computing) CPU upgrades. Anyway, glad you got something rock solid now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Ken... the MB I was playing with was so slim it would be hard for me to imagine it not have cooling issues. Which is not to excuse them... but my (admittedly 15.4" vs 12") Dell Inspiron looked like it would hold, like, 3 MacBooks inside it. Me, I'd take the tradeoff to a clunkier box with better cooling, but I could see lifestyle applications (so to speak) where the MB (or better an MBPro) would be the machine to have, sleekly pulling it out of your briefcase or shoulderbag, a slim and gleaming white... etc. Me, my Dell looks a bit like the Millenium Falcon... battered retro-future... except for the big ol' peace sign in blue magic marker over the round dell logo... it was screaming for it one day. I don't know... but it just seemed to run better -- and quieter -- after that. Cool heads prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spokenward Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 You can get a pretty good sense of user experiences with Mac product lines by keeping an eye on Macintouch.com. Here's a link to the MacBook Pro issue reports (alphabetically) I expected Apple to ship an upgraded MacBook Pro with the core2duo, but they are apparently waiting for the next generation chipset. I think I am going to get an XP notebook, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 The Core 2 Duo blows me away. I had my first experience with it while reviewing the Rain Recording Event computer (sort of a Windows Mac Mini). Latency was super low, cool operation, could run lots of plugs...that is a nifty little processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevorkazito Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Sorry to hear about your problems. Using those emulators with the programs you mention can be tenuous. The developers of those programs are performing functions that are low-level in the sense that they are sort of saying, "go to this register and do something". When they do this, they are not using common gateways (API's in comp lingo), so the emulator goes "well, I'm not really here and I can't find what you are looking for", then crash & burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mats Nermark Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Gus Lozada Say hello to my new Dell Inspiron, Centrino Dual Core @ 2 Ghz, 2 GB RAM. One day trying it, and it runs all the software as it is supposed to run. Heck, I even get to record under USB with 128 samples of buffer size, no audio dropouts. Hi Gus, I just got myself that very same laptop and so far it's working great. I haven't used it for music though as I've been hesitant to use a lap top as the screen is small and a few other issues not having to do with the computer per se. It makes me happy to read that it's working fine for music so I have now put in my plan to migrate from my stationary Intel 4 2.8 GH to the Dell. Do you think there will be an increase or decrease in performance? Cheers, Mats N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by blue2blue ... except for the big ol' peace sign in blue magic marker over the round dell logo... it was screaming for it one day. I don't know... but it just seemed to run better -- and quieter -- after that. Cool heads prevail. Guitars sound better with liberal applications of various stickers and sharpie doodles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rabid Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Well Guss, at least your battery did not go up in flames during the presentation. I've been pretty happy with my HP core duo with 2 Gig memory. It does get warm and the laptop tends to overhead my lap top when I sit in a recliner and make music. One bad design of this laptop computer is a vent in the bottom that gets blocked when sitting on your lap. After searching for a week to find a decent laptop board to go between the laptop and my lap, I opted for a teflon cutting board from my kitchen. The size is just right, the edges are smooth so that it does not cut into my legs, and it is warped just a bit so there is more air space under the computer. Oh, and it was cheap. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by kevorkazito Sorry to hear about your problems. Using those emulators with the programs you mention can be tenuous. The developers of those programs are performing functions that are low-level in the sense that they are sort of saying, "go to this register and do something". When they do this, they are not using common gateways (API's in comp lingo), so the emulator goes "well, I'm not really here and I can't find what you are looking for", then crash & burn. What emulators are you talking about? I got lost... Originally posted by Mats Nermark Hi Gus, Hi Mats! Originally posted by Mats Nermark I just got myself that very same laptop and so far it's working great. I haven't used it for music though as I've been hesitant to use a lap top as the screen is small and a few other issues not having to do with the computer per se. It makes me happy to read that it's working fine for music so I have now put in my plan to migrate from my stationary Intel 4 2.8 GH to the Dell. Do you think there will be an increase or decrease in performance? Cheers, Mats N I recorded last night a new project in Pro Tools, using Pro Tools and Reason. Several audio tracks and modules into reason and it keeped working right. What really amazes me -it happens with the MacBook Pro, when it works- is that I can record with an USB interface at 128 samples of buffer size. That was impossible with my old G4 and with the Studio's computer -a P IV @ 2.8 GHz- so I could say -not fully confirm- that I have been experiencing a better perofrmance from the laptop, compared to the desktop -single core-. Of course, I do NOT have several 7,200 RPM hard disks in the laptop so it will not be a full replacement for recording big projects. But as a laptop, is extremely powerful. Originally posted by Rabid Well Guss, at least your battery did not go up in flames during the presentation. I've been pretty happy with my HP core duo with 2 Gig memory. It does get warm and the laptop tends to overhead my lap top when I sit in a recliner and make music. One bad design of this laptop computer is a vent in the bottom that gets blocked when sitting on your lap. After searching for a week to find a decent laptop board to go between the laptop and my lap, I opted for a teflon cutting board from my kitchen. The size is just right, the edges are smooth so that it does not cut into my legs, and it is warped just a bit so there is more air space under the computer. Oh, and it was cheap. Robert HI Robert! It did not go on flames, thanks God, but it is nearly impossible to actually use it in your "lap". You have to get your jacket or anything in your legs to stand' the computer's heat. I'll check your sollution, too Thanks all for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 heh heh heh... welcome back to the darkside, oh, Wintel Jedi knight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mats Nermark Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Gus Lozada Hi Mats! I recorded last night a new project in Pro Tools, using Pro Tools and Reason. Several audio tracks and modules into reason and it keeped working right. What really amazes me -it happens with the MacBook Pro, when it works- is that I can record with an USB interface at 128 samples of buffer size. That was impossible with my old G4 and with the Studio's computer -a P IV @ 2.8 GHz- so I could say -not fully confirm- that I have been experiencing a better perofrmance from the laptop, compared to the desktop -single core-. Of course, I do NOT have several 7,200 RPM hard disks in the laptop so it will not be a full replacement for recording big projects. But as a laptop, is extremely powerful. Hi again Gus, That sounds promising indeed! I usually don't use a lot of audio tracks. Maybe at the most 8 stereo tracks. I do however use a lot of VSTi but few of them (if any) use disc streaming. Maybe a slower disc will work for me. May I ask what kind of USB-audio i/f you are using. I'm in the process of deciding a recording interface. USB or Firewire is also a question. Anyone with a suggestion may jump right in here. Cheers, Mats N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Mats Nermark May I ask what kind of USB-audio i/f you are using. I'm in the process of deciding a recording interface. USB or Firewire is also a question. Anyone with a suggestion may jump right in here.Cheers,Mats N Hi again! As a full disclaimer: I'm the Tech Support Manager for M-Audio International and Product Specialist for Latin America., So I have all the toys with me. All the testing have been done with: * USB *JamLabUSB TransitFast Track ProBlack Box * FIREWIRE *FireWire SOLOFirWire 1814ProjectMix 128 samples with USB in Pro Tools M-Powered 7.1, LIVE 5.2.2 and REASON 3.0.4 I confess, I never used before 128 samples with confidence. Not even in my desktop Pentium 4 of the studio -minimum was 256 when tracking, 512 when mixing-. I usually go down to 256 samples with my PCI interface, getting around 10 ms. Nice results, consistent performance. Now with this machine it gets around 5-6 ms under 128 samples, USB with up to 8 stereo tracks, at least one plug-in on each and a full Reason rack with 6 instruments, FX and loading the "premium piano" of 200 MB in the NN-XT. No drops, clicks or pops... ... I'm kinda scared !! so I'll actually get back into 256, but for testing purposes, it was awesome. ((NOTE: To be fair, let me say that It also happens the same with the MacBook Pro, when it decides NOT to crash.)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Gus Lozada I went on a one month clinics tour using this new machine. It was a nightmare. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by Gus Lozada Hi again!As a full disclaimer: I'm the Tech Support Manager for M-Audio International and Product Specialist for Latin America., So I have all the toys with me.I confess, I never used before 128 samples with confidence. Not even in my desktop Pentium 4 of the studio -minimum was 256 when tracking, 512 when mixing-. I usually go down to 256 samples with my PCI interface, getting around 10 ms. Nice results, consistent performance.Now with this machine it gets around 5-6 ms under 128 samples, USB with up to 8 stereo tracks, at least one plug-in on each and a full Reason rack with 6 instruments, FX and loading the "premium piano" of 200 MB in the NN-XT. No drops, clicks or pops...... I'm kinda scared !! so I'll actually get back into 256, but for testing purposes, it was awesome. ((NOTE: To be fair, let me say that It also happens the same with the MacBook Pro, when it decides NOT to crash.)) On a Mac Pro with Apogee Symphony cards, we've gotten 96 tracks at 24/96, with a buffer setting of 32 samples. 1.6ms latency analog to analog round trip. No drops, clicks or pops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Disclaimer: I work for Apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 eh, that's how it goes -- different folks run into different problems -- that's one problem with normative sytem designs, sometimes they don't work as well for outlying use models (and in those cases, the WOMM perspective is often what can blind the redress structure) I had this one project where a coder tried to solve a problem using a normative use heuristic...only problem was...he was left handed!!!(hey, at least it was that way, cranked the blackbox QA sensitivity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorePaul Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Disclaimer : history as Dev Manager, so I'm an asshole to EVERYONE (part of the job) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mats Nermark Posted October 20, 2006 Members Share Posted October 20, 2006 Hi Gus, So disclaimer out of the way what card do you recommend? For your comparison, today I use a humble but very functional M-Audio Audiophile 9624 PCI card with good results and very low latency and it's been rock solid since day one. This translates into: I'm not adverse to buying another M-Audio product but I want one that's equally good or better but USB or Firewire. I can't remember what size buffer I'm using but Cubase 4 states a latency of 2.92 ms. I works very well at this setting but does not allow too many plug-ins. For mixing I usually set it latency to app 10 ms. Switching is also not a problem. So suggestions please. Everyone chime in! Cheers, Mats N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by steadyb Disclaimer: I work for Apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Originally posted by steadyb Interesting. We've been doing clinics and clinic tours non stop since last February... all on MacBook Pros... and have not had any problems. Logic, Final Cut, GB, Guitar Rig, Waves, ...etc. all running smoothly. Plus, on the side, I've mixed a few TV shows on my MBP in Logic after importing OMF files, using the MacBook Pro and a bus powered FW drive, and not a hitch. Sorry you weren't able to keep things running as smoothly, but I don't think your experience is the norm. I guess it is NOT the norm, Dude! ... but you're running APPLE software... I guess it was designed from the bottom up to run good with Intel processors. I'm sure it is the combination of Pro Tools (digi) + M-Audio Drivers + Ableton + Intel Universal Binay stuff, what caused all of the crashing. We all - Digi, M-Audio and Ableton- should work in pace with Apple -and I guess all other manufacturers- to not only making our stuff "work" under Intel Macs, but "run flawlessly"... just like everything ran before on my old G4 and today runs in my PC laptop. I guess it is part of the learning curve. But still, the machine run SO damned hot, the video card is a mess -it was not in the old G4- and even apps like Skype usually crash with no reason. Still, I have big hopes everything will be solved promptly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted October 21, 2006 Members Share Posted October 21, 2006 Originally posted by Gus Lozada Hey, see you at dinner at NAMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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