Members Will Chen Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I, like many on this forum, used to scoff at bands who sold their songs for use in commercials. They were instantly labeled a sell-out and promptly categorized into the "not-worth-a-listen' category of my musical tastes. However, it seems over the past year I've found more interesting music by paying attention to commercials and looking up the artist and song title on the internet than listening to the radio. Of course, my opinion is not unique that radio playlists have become so homogenized that it is an extremely rare occasion that anything worth a second listen makes it onto the air. It is worth noting though that the world of advertising which used to try to capitalize on hot pop trends appears now to be trying to set them. Wolfmother had a song on a car commercial not too long ago, Robert Randolph's "More Love" was featured in NBA spots last season and another of his songs is featured in a new cell phone ad, Jamiroquai's "Feels Just Like It Should" is featured in a new Cingular ad, Morningwood has a song in a car commercial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ultravibe Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Advertisers pay for music material. What's the wise old saying about finding what you love, then figuring how to get paid to do it? I personally see no problem with it. I wonder if ol' Wolfie Amadeus was ever labeled a "sell-out" for composing for royalty? Or in other languages? Or whatever... There is a gamut to just about everything - On one end of the spectrum is KISS, a complete sell-out band. They sell anything and everything (but can barely play) whereas on the other are the classical musicians who play just for the love of music and the craft, and barely make enough to get by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 30, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2007 Like you, I'm of two minds on this. First, I love hearing good music wherever it comes form. Wolfmother on my TV? Cool! But I keep thinking of the The Who Sell Out album cover as well. Roger's baked beans and Pete's roll-on Oderono! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I think if commercials were using your music and you were raking on the royalty checks, you would have a different slant on all this. I for one don`t mind, I think its good business for the musicians and companies using the music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I agree wbc, that there is a lot more interesting music in commercials these days than on mainstream radio. I certainly don't see these days how it's any more of a "sell out" to do a commercial than it is to be on corporate radio or a major label. If anything it might be less, because it seems the ad companies are offering more creative freedom. I think it's a little gauche for an already well established artist to allow their song to be used for an ad. I'd rather see the time used to expose us to new artists and make them some money that they no doubt badly need. But I've got no real issue with it in any case - the music biz has always been about "evil marketing geniuses." Just have to pick your poison whether it's record label or concert promoter or radio evil geniuses, or some other product. These days as an artist I'd actually rather deal with a corporate sponsor who had nothing to do with music, they're more apt to leave you alone creatively because they're focused on their main product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 But I keep thinking of the The Who Sell Out album cover as well. Roger's baked beans and Pete's roll-on Oderono! But that's just it, it was a sendup of the Who's discovery that they were just being used to sell baked beans and nobody in the music biz really gave a crap about the "art." Even then, record labels were "diversified" and heavily invested in other products. Of course it's only gotten worse since then, but it's never been a fun revelation for an artist. In fact the Stones decided it was time to break with their first British label (Decca) when they learned that a good deal of the money they'd earned for the label was being sunk into a defense contractor who made bombs to drop on North Vietnam. Kinda makes selling deodorant and baked beans seem pretty innocuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Often times, the rights to those classic rock numbers don't belong to the artists, so they didn't sell out to the ad agency. I'm not too upset about these things, the artist can decide where they want to make their money. I know I've written songs that I would consider too personal to sell for a commercial. Other stuff, I'd have no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Often times, the rights to those classic rock numbers don't belong to the artists, so they didn't sell out to the ad agency. Yep. That's probably what makes me the maddest. I sure would hate to be somebody having to listen to my songs in a commercial when I didn't want them there. I'm not too upset about these things, the artist can decide where they want to make their money. I know I've written songs that I would consider too personal to sell for a commercial. Other stuff, I'd have no problem with. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted January 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm not too upset about these things, the artist can decide where they want to make their money. In my youth, I was extremely concerned with "these things" basically how "true" music was as judged by my adolescent, idealized, skewed perception of world. Since the prevailing theme of responses has been "it's cool, do what you gotta do" we'll probably get a bunch of sheepish responses reinforcing that view. However, I've read plenty of posts giving a band/artist the "scarlet S" for placing music in or appearing on commercials. I can't play the devils advocate as I'm of a mind set the even if you are a hired gun in a "A-list" cover band, you are still getting paid to perform which is more than I can say at the moment. Perhaps the line is the intent of the song. If a well established artist writes a song specifically to appear in an advertisement, is he/she a sell out? What if the song happens to be a really good song which works on it's own without the framework of the ad? What about artist altering the words to better fit a product and performing the altered version? Maybe "selling out" doesn't carry the stigma of my generation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 30, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2007 But that's just it, it was a sendup of the Who's discovery that they were just being used to sell baked beans and nobody in the music biz really gave a crap about the "art." Of course. I really think it's great that new artists have an avenue to expose their stuff. Target commercials, iPods spots, car ads. My reference to The Who was just a reminder of the misgivings and doubts regarding this, that have gone on since the dawn of pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I agree with Hooker. Gotta float the boat. Still, "Rock and Roll" will never be the same for me. And when they munge together sections of songs to fit, that really bugs me! Let's just go from the salad to the dessert. No time for the cake so we'll skip to the last bite of ice cream. (I understand, I've made a few cuts myself, but it was only Beethoven.) Lately, a local news channel has been running a lengthy commercial that's extremely Mellencamp. They found someone to write them a song that sounds just like "that one song" -(maybe you've heard it?) without actually plagiarizing. They copied EVERYTHING but the actual notes. Homey shots of the locale, a covered bridge, etc. I guess there must have been a moment when someone said, "Write me a song that sounds just like _______ without taking the song itself." And I'd have to say that someone did a great job of that. I hope he got a NICE check. But once was enough. Plenty. And it just wreaks of, "I'm an XKTE TV man and THIS IS MY COUNTRY. I drive Chevy (complete with a piss on Ford sticker), and piss on Wendy's too cause I'm a Burger King man. I am what I drive, what I watch, and what I listen to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted January 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Lately, a local news channel has been running a lengthy commercial that's extremely Mellencamp. They found someone to write them a song that sounds just like "that one song" -(maybe you've heard it?) without actually plagiarizing. They copied EVERYTHING but the actual notes. The latest issue of TapeOp has an interview with a guy who does just that. I need a version of "________" and he'll do it, but just different enough to avoid any legal issues. However, he used to money earned doing gigs such as these to bank his first album. Sellout or savy? I guess the point of this thread is where is the line or does one even exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 The latest issue of TapeOp has an interview with a guy who does just that. I need a version of "________" and he'll do it, but just different enough to avoid any legal issues. However, he used to money earned doing gigs such as these to bank his first album. Sellout or savy? I've heard these soundalikes for a long time. I wonder if it's the sort of thing that is so calculated that it would put me off making music. * Special points to whoever identifies the source of the quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ultravibe Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 If a well established artist writes a song specifically to appear in an advertisement, is he/she a sell out? If a graphic artist designs an ad for a company, are they then a sell out? How about if they design an album cover for a band on a major label, and their art is then used in advertisements throughout almost all media? A world-reknowned chef that creates a recipe for inclusion in Good Housekeeping? A clothing designer that designs a shirt to be sold at Target? The lines are blurred. I used to be in the same boat as you, but then I went ahead and acquired a little more wisdom... (not to imply you haven't - I'm talking more about the kids that we once were claiming everyone but Fugazi were complete sell outs!) Being able to do what we do and make a little money is very nice. To be able to do what we do and make a career of it is super sweet. (All that said, there are songs that I've written (for my wife for insatnce) that would never get sold... not that anybody is banging down my door, anyway...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 The line is very nearbye or has been crossed when you begin to feel rather sick and dirty, either because its been crossed by you or you have witnessed it being crossed. I can't fault Mellencamp. He's coined himself. His choice. He is Chevy. But the bandwagon sickens me, and I would feel disgusted on some level to be the generic version. I could maybe do it if the mafia had my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I scored a killer David Garza CD due to Best Buy using him in an ad. Old school bands? Depends. _~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Didn't you love that moment in Oliver Stone's THE DOORS, when Jim Morrison (Val Kilmer) is aghast to the point of nausea when he sees a TV commercial for some economy car... all these HULLABALOO! style girls are poneying and frugging around the car while music plays a perky, lightweight version of "Come on, baby, light my fire!" I keep waiting for Warner-Lambert pharmaceuticals to "acquire" the rights to that song by BUSH, and give it a new spin: "Don't let a day go by.....LISTERINE." Hey, why not, if it puts food on the table after the trajectory of your fame has been eclipsed. There's that famous quote by Pearl Bailey: "Honey child, I've been rich and I've been poor. And let me tell you, rich is better." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 A world-reknowned chef that creates a recipe for inclusion in Good Housekeeping? A clothing designer that designs a shirt to be sold at Target? Joan Rivers once said: "If you play to the classes, you eat with the masses; if you play to the masses, you eat with the classes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 In the beginning, all bands wanted to "sell out". It's hard to fault Aerosmith for playing that pap they ended up using as material. They come from a time when selling out was the goal. On the other hand, McSelloutica and their whole deal is another story. They actually did "sell out", in the sense that they sold their integrity. McSelloutica made their views known back in the day and they ended up selling out. And at whatever point they signed with Atlantic or Electra or whoever it was. And they just pretty much such and I'm just a tad bit bitter about the time and energies I wasted on this band. _~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShakaCthulu Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 What Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Will Chen Posted January 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 McSelloutica and their whole deal is another story. They actually did "sell out", in the sense that they sold their integrity. McSelloutica made their views known back in the day and they ended up selling out. And at whatever point they signed with Atlantic or Electra or whoever it was. And they just pretty much such and I'm just a tad bit bitter about the time and energies I wasted on this band. _~ This is another avenue that I'd like to explore. What exactly made them a sellout out to you and why does that taint the fact that you'd ever liked them at all. Perhaps with age comes a perspective and a different view. In this case, and with many metal and punk rock bands, how long can you sustain the anger/angst once you are removed from the environment which formed the attitude? Sure, like any fiction author, you can conjure emotions in others by working with past experiences you've had but at some point you just don't want to be the sloppy, long haired guy in the corner in all black carving the anarchy sign into a desk and start to worry about retirement, family, your children's education and everything so un-rock that if your fan base knew they'd...well call you a sellout. While I haven't really listened to Metalica since "And Justice For All...", I gotta say that documentary they just put out was a decent peek into a band dealing with alot of the issues I just mentioned. And for the record, I think Lars has been all about the "sell out" since day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Licensing music for advertisements has put jingle writers out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lakesidedave Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 For some artists, it's not a sellout, but just one of many ways of earning income from songwriting. I have no problem with that. For other artists, who signed publishing deals without enshrining their Moral Rights, they may have no say in where the publisher places their music. They should have been better advised, or found out more about it before signing. Other artists, like Tom Waits, vigorously defend their Moral Rights, to the extent of successfully suing several attempts to use Soundalikes in commercials. Someone once wanted to use 'Step Right Up' (oh, the delicious irony!) for a commercial. Waits refused to allow it, so they came up with a soundalike song. He sued, won, got damages. Cool. I agree with John Lee Hooker. Why shouldn't an artist maximise their income? Just because an artist is well-known, and maybe has sold loads of records, doesn't mean they've got a lifetime's money out of it, in fact, in most cases, it's quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Mellencamp/Chevy: Says he realized that he wouldn't get any airplay on his new songs after he realized that the new Tom Petty song wasn't getting played on the radio. "If he isn't going to get played, I'm not going to," he was thinking. Mellencamp had originally been critical of Bob Seger and others for "selling out", but then realized that he had to get his art out there any way he could if people were going to hear it at all. He also mentions that he's gotten treated far better by Chevy than his record company ever treated him. I dunno. I have to admit that sometimes it irks me a little to hear a song that means something to me that is suddenly hawking Coca Cola or whatever, but at the same time, I realize that each artist has their own needs and reasons for doing what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Mellencamp had originally been critical of Bob Seger and others for "selling out" So in delicious irony, Chevy dropped the "Like a Rock" campaign for the "Our Country" campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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